Idea: Player corporations could be treated as an in-game faction

[Skip Intro]

I never said the galaxy itself, I said human space. Also, you can't up or down scale a specific event in our history on earth to a galactic scale as we only have the earth in reality. You can however use individuals as a reference to argue the effect a person can have on a much larger scale. Regardless, you seem to have missed my point entirely or, at the very least, cherry picked my argument.

Well, you stated that a very specific case was a matter of changing history. I understand this, but it only applies on a tiny scale. The idea of Elite is that one person cannot change the galaxy, you are a small cog in a massive, uncaring machine.

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For the record, unless I'm misunderstanding it... Godwin's law only pertains to comparing someone or something directly to Hilter/Nazis as a means of retort or diversion. Not the mention of them as a reference point. I mean, honestly.. I could have stated Einstein or Tesla, Bush or Stalin. Hitler and his regime just happen to be an easier historical reference for world-wide discussion groups as everyone knows, at least to a point who they are and what they did.

You're quite right, but Hitler seems to be the go-to guy for "changing the world" memes, setting off the Godwin checker with a false positive.

 

[anikaiful]

For the record, unless I'm misunderstanding it... Godwin's law only pertains to comparing someone or something directly to Hilter/Nazis as a means of retort or diversion. Not the mention of them as a reference point. I mean, honestly.. I could have stated Einstein or Tesla, Bush or Stalin. Hitler and his regime just happen to be an easier historical reference for world-wide discussion groups as everyone knows, at least to a point who they are and what they did.

Einstein and Tesla at least made a lasting effect, unlike the rest up there ^

 

[Skip Intro]

Erm... Yes it does.

The longer any discussion goes on, the higher the probability is of someone mentioning something or comparing something to something else. Technically, an infinite thread would statistically contain all known words and sentences in any language.

Probability math always gets funky when you work with infinity.

No, you're putting two specifics into your equation, not just comparing one anything with another anything. There's no way that will work, unless you're falling back on the infinite moneys writing Shakespeare clause or you're writing your replies from the Heart of Gold.

 

[KonigWolf]

I merely meant it as a reference point. But yes, I can see the reasoning behind the false positive. "The idea of Elite..." is my point exactly. It's not realistic as a lot of people are so eager to believe.

The fact of the matter is, we have, at least currently, NO power at all. I can essentially destroy one of the Empires few capital ships only to have it instantly warp out and reappear in another instance. Realistic? No. We cannot *kill any of the galaxy's citizens. I've killed the same NPCs hundreds of times. We, even in massive groups have no effect on inter-system wars, etc.

To put it simply... Real players are simply pointless to the galaxy, regardless of how many or how few.

 

[Skip Intro]

Einstein and Tesla at least made a lasting effect, unlike the rest up there ^

Wasn't struck on Tesla's second album, though.

 

[Phaaded]

Won't happen. This topic has been discussed to death and FD explicitly declared something like this will never be implemented. Ever.

They sure do like adding nails to their coffin....

Seriously, games have had "guilds" since like 95.

 

[anikaiful]

Seriously, games have had "guilds" since like 95.

So what? You can form a guild whenever you so desire - no one's stopping you from doing so. It's nothing mandatory to support such in-game however.

 

[Fangrim]

I merely meant it as a reference point. But yes, I can see the reasoning behind the false positive. "The idea of Elite..." is my point exactly. It's not realistic as a lot of people are so eager to believe.

The fact of the matter is, we have, at least currently, NO power at all. I can essentially destroy one of the Empires few capital ships only to have it instantly warp out and reappear in another instance. Realistic? No. We cannot *kill any of the galaxy's citizens. I've killed the same NPCs hundreds of times. We, even in massive groups have no effect on inter-system wars, etc.

To put it simply... Real players are simply pointless to the galaxy, regardless of how many or how few.

Can't rep you again, so QFT ;o)

 

[ComradeFresco]

Lets drop the EVE comparisons - or any other game - for the moment and really focus on the core ideas here:

There are three main issues that relate.

1) The impact of player (s) on the galaxy. Currently many feel its TOO minimal (given how experiments to start civil wars with hundreds of players have met issues) but many players seem to also express concern at the notion of the reverse being possible (ie it being trivial to flip systems)


2) The supported means for players to form guilds/clans/corporations. Typically social games offer some in-house support (guild tags and guild chat and so on). Players can always group on their own means but the question of how "hard-coded" those groups should be in the game raises discussion.


3) The type and quantity assets players can own: Some players - for social reasons particularly - want stations/capital ships to be somehow controllable or ownable by groups of players with pooled assets. Other players oppose this because they feel players should occupy the "every man" role of the galaxy and not the top tier of corporate and military commanders.


So rather then saying "No to EVE style social play" lets consider each of this area's on their own and come to our own conclusions about what would enhance ED and what would detract from it.

 

[Fangrim]

So what? You can form a guild whenever you so desire - no one's stopping you from doing so. It's nothing mandatory to support such in-game however.

How cool is it to form a guild, when currently there's not even such a simple thing as a guild tag under your name?

Noone will know your affiliation, you might not even know who's in your guiild yourself.

 

[anikaiful]

How cool is it to form a guild, when currently there's not even such a simple thing as a guild tag under your name?

Noone will know your affiliation, you might not even know who's in your guiild yourself.

I don't see magical tags under/above people at streets either

Sure, they could implement guilds, I don't mind them, but not in a way where everyone and their grandma's cat magically knows affiliation by glance (anything beyond a "guild decal" or paint would be *too-much-info*) - guild members *might* know each other, unless the "guild" is large enough (compare with small or larger corporations - aside the one whoever holds list of members, no one has real clue who belongs to it and who doesn't - unless they're personally working at same place or otherwise acquainted - or sporting "same colors"). Although - if one's ship's transponder is sending affiliation info akin to IFF systems, that's another story then - could be switchable on/off at will.

 

[ComradeFresco]

I don't see magical tags under/above people at streets either

Sure, they could implement guilds, I don't mind them, but not in a way where everyone and their grandma's cat magically knows affiliation by glance (anything beyond a "guild decal" or paint would be *too-much-info*) - guild members *might* know each other, unless the "guild" is large enough (compare with small or larger corporations - aside the one whoever holds list of members, no one has real clue who belongs to it and who doesn't - unless they're personally working at same place or otherwise acquainted - or sporting "same colors").

Well i mean we can automatically see what faction an NPC is with by scanning them so its not a huge stretch in that context.

imho anyhow.

 

[Skip Intro]

As anikaiful says, even if you have a Guild / Corporation, it's unlikely you'd have a home base that everyone would be happy with, and even if you did, the amount of non-guildies just hanging about outside would create something of a 'running the gauntlet' mini-game in itself.

 

[Dbrn47]

No thanks and if by chance it's even possible I hope it's so far down the line that everyone forgets it was even requested.

 

[anikaiful]

Well i mean we can automatically see what faction an NPC is with by scanning them so its not a huge stretch in that context.

imho anyhow.

Yea, that's why I added to my post above ("Although - if one's ship's transponder is sending affiliation info akin to IFF systems, that's another story then - could be switchable on/off at will.").

 

[ComradeFresco]

As anikaiful says, even if you have a Guild / Corporation, it's unlikely you'd have a home base that everyone would be happy with, and even if you did, the amount of non-guildies just hanging about outside would create something of a 'running the gauntlet' mini-game in itself.

The masochist in me would enjoy that but i can see it not being the absolute best game-design decision.

Perhaps if all player-owned assets had to be created in unsettled space? Dunno if thats actually a good idea though.

 

[Fangrim]

I don't see magical tags under/above people at streets either

Sure, they could implement guilds, I don't mind them, but not in a way where everyone and their grandma's cat magically knows affiliation by glance (anything beyond a "guild decal" or paint would be *too-much-info*) - guild members *might* know each other, unless the "guild" is large enough (compare with small or larger corporations - aside the one whoever holds list of members, no one has real clue who belongs to it and who doesn't - unless they're personally working at same place or otherwise acquainted - or sporting "same colors"). Although - if one's ship's transponder is sending affiliation info akin to IFF systems, that's another story then - could be switchable on/off at will.

No, but you see other indications (especially when we're talking about gangs).

I dunno how guild affiliation should be presented in-game, but right now we got NPC factions shown, so why not guilds (I see them as just another faction, albeit player-created).

 

[anikaiful]

Perhaps if all player-owned assets had to be created in unsettled space? Dunno if thats actually a good idea though.

... or indep/anarchy systems - I bet the "big boys" (Fed, Empire, etc) would not let "newcomers" to mess with their already established grounds, so the only 'realistic' settlement space would indeed be either unsettled areas or areas which don't have strict control figures already in place.

 

[ComradeFresco]

... or indep/anarchy systems - I bet the "big boys" (Fed, Empire, etc) would not let "newcomers" to mess with their already established grounds, so the only 'realistic' settlement space would indeed be either unsettled areas or areas which don't have strict control figures already in place.

Exactly plus that way it would encourage guilds/player owned assets and such to expand the scope of inhabited space rather then just disrupt the status-quo of inhabited space already.

Also maybe they'd end up being a canary of Thargoids. "Ooops player corporation XYZ's station has mysteriously disappeared from the frontiers of space..."

 

[Fangrim]

If player guilds are now the answer, Frontier better get this "MMO"-thing going soon.

Right now, the only MMO aspect is the chance for me to randomly meet other players. Not even if I am grouped with someone, I can be sure we can see each other, and see whatever the other one sees.

In-game comms are a joke, grouping as more a matter of luck than anything else, and noone has anything to cooperate for.

While this might be "true" to the original Elite, this is not how the game was "sold", nor how many people feel it should be.