If someone from Fdev streams themselves unlocking all the Guardian tech. I will eat my eye patch.

[Zhark]

Because we all have the same taste...

Unless you have some sort of biological variation or have done something to yourself to limit your ability to taste, everyone has the same basic tastes:
Saltiness
Sourness
Bitterness
Savoriness

What you like is different from what you can taste. Maybe you've never eaten food cooked by a good chef but no, you don't need to add anything at the end.

 

[Kaocraft]

So how many times is an acceptable number, in order to have access to all the new Guardian toys?

Personally, I feel 18 is unreasonable but think 6 is probably fair - with the caveat that each Guardian site only provides a single blueprint type.

Help me understand what would be wrong with ONE?

 

[Pendergast]

And its not just the repetition, it is the lack of in game guidance. Should get a mission with clear instructions for the first site, easy run with 2 sentinels. The mission would then chain to another site, a bit harder, and so on through 6 of them where then you are done and have all the blueprints for everything. If too hard at first you can stop part with through with just enough for one module. This format would have progression and reward without repetition (unless you die that is).

 

[Enderby]

Help me understand what would be wrong with ONE?

Because then you would have completed all the fun new content.

 

[Turbosnowy]

It wont happen for likely many reasons but one I think is that asking someone from FDEV to do something in one sitting that has been designed for someone to do over multiple sessions, perhaps over weeks or months or years would be missing the point of the 'design' i.e. you would be asking someone to 'do it wrong' to prove that doing it wrong is the wrong way to do it. So FDev would look at this and just say LOL and ignore it.

You see I think Sandro has a vision that Guardians should be approached in the same way as engineers, and you just pootle about and get stuff organically and one day you find yourself at an engineer or tech broker and find sudden joy in finding out you can afford to unlock something or get an upgrade for something on your ship - Yay Go You!

However, if I am right in this assumption, then it would miss the point that noone is ever realistically going to organically gather enough guardian bits to ever get anything. So basically the design is off and suits noone - in short it's terrible game design.

But as I say if FDev believe that gathering organically whilst just floating about doing other things is the way to do it properly, then they'll never accept a challenge to do it hardcore in one go (which is the way in the real world people are approaching this, then wanting to jump out of windows hence the forum Rage RaArg and all that).

Just my 2c of course.

 

[Guyperson]

What you like is different from what you can taste. Maybe you've never eaten food cooked by a good chef but no, you don't need to add anything at the end.

I'll put BBQ sauce on steak after it's served and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

 

[Maka Gucci]

It wont happen for likely many reasons but one I think is that asking someone from FDEV to do something in one sitting that has been designed for someone to do over multiple sessions, perhaps over weeks or months or years would be missing the point of the 'design' i.e. you would be asking someone to 'do it wrong' to prove that doing it wrong is the wrong way to do it. So FDev would look at this and just say LOL and ignore it.

You see I think Sandro has a vision that Guardians should be approached in the same way as engineers, and you just pootle about and get stuff organically and one day you find yourself at an engineer or tech broker and find sudden joy in finding out you can afford to unlock something or get an upgrade for something on your ship - Yay Go You!

However, if I am right in this assumption, then it would miss the point that noone is ever realistically going to organically gather enough guardian bits to ever get anything. So basically the design is off and suits noone - in short it's terrible game design.

But as I say if FDev believe that gathering organically whilst just floating about doing other things is the way to do it properly, then they'll never accept a challenge to do it hardcore in one go (which is the way in the real world people are approaching this, then wanting to jump out of windows hence the forum Rage RaArg and all that).

Just my 2c of course.

How would you organically get:

16 Module Blueprint Segment
17 Pattern Alpha Obelisk Data
42 Pattern Epsilon Obelisk Data
123 Power Cell*
116 Power conduit*
73 Sentinal Weapon Parts*
68 Sentinel Wreckage Components*
160 Technology Component*
48 Weapon Blueprint Segment

.. for all the guardian stuff?

Even over months of "organic" play, you won't come across that. Just like you won't come across enough CDC's to g5 several heavy duty HRPs for a single ship.

Why would we organically go to these sites, enough times to respawn the sentinels without relogging.. For what missions or gameplay?

 

[Space Dandy]

A good chef tastes the food all along the way so that they know it is seasoned correctly and thus they don't have to scramble to fix it at the end. You should never need salt or pepper on a table if your chef was tasting the food.

Unless you have a different preference from the Chef.

All truly good Chefs know that while the basics and balance of flavors may follow a certain agreed upon trend you also put your own twist and and preference to each dish which us why often two equally good chefs will not always agree on what is "better".

 

[jasonbarron]

It wont happen for likely many reasons but one I think is that asking someone from FDEV to do something in one sitting that has been designed for someone to do over multiple sessions, perhaps over weeks or months or years would be missing the point of the 'design' i.e. you would be asking someone to 'do it wrong' to prove that doing it wrong is the wrong way to do it. So FDev would look at this and just say LOL and ignore it

I don't know about Fdev, but I'm definitely saying "Lol" and overlooking it.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

This “gamer council” doesn’t even need to be on the staff, it could just be a control group of volunteers tasked to play test new features of the game before going live with them.

I was on such a testing group for a series of games called Starfleet Command many years ago. We playtested each new version of the game and it’s sequels to find areas of improvement and issues for QA, and it greatly helped the devs to polish things before release. Elite could hugely benefit from something like this. Of course it would only help Frontier if they actually listened and reacted to this feedback, otherwise there wouldn’t be a point in bothering.

Problem with the gamer council approach is that Frontier have made it pretty clear that they consider a few to be first amongst equals, so they would be selected.

 

[Crash1099]

How would you organically get:

16 Module Blueprint Segment
17 Pattern Alpha Obelisk Data
42 Pattern Epsilon Obelisk Data
123 Power Cell*
116 Power conduit*
73 Sentinal Weapon Parts*
68 Sentinel Wreckage Components*
160 Technology Component*
48 Weapon Blueprint Segment

.. for all the guardian stuff?

Even over months of "organic" play, you won't come across that. Just like you won't come across enough CDC's to g5 several heavy duty HRPs for a single ship.

Why would we organically go to these sites, enough times to respawn the sentinels without relogging.. For what missions or gameplay?

I think i will pass. No way am i doing that.

 

[Maro-Val]

It wont happen for likely many reasons but one I think is that asking someone from FDEV to do something in one sitting that has been designed for someone to do over multiple sessions, perhaps over weeks or months or years would be missing the point of the 'design' i.e. you would be asking someone to 'do it wrong' to prove that doing it wrong is the wrong way to do it. So FDev would look at this and just say LOL and ignore it.

You see I think Sandro has a vision that Guardians should be approached in the same way as engineers, and you just pootle about and get stuff organically and one day you find yourself at an engineer or tech broker and find sudden joy in finding out you can afford to unlock something or get an upgrade for something on your ship - Yay Go You!

However, if I am right in this assumption, then it would miss the point that noone is ever realistically going to organically gather enough guardian bits to ever get anything. So basically the design is off and suits noone - in short it's terrible game design.

But as I say if FDev believe that gathering organically whilst just floating about doing other things is the way to do it properly, then they'll never accept a challenge to do it hardcore in one go (which is the way in the real world people are approaching this, then wanting to jump out of windows hence the forum Rage RaArg and all that).

Just my 2c of course.

You may have a point there. I was able to unlock the gauss cannon (only thing i unlocked) in one session so it can be done.
Lets see how that goes on an official stream, because i have one particullar question towards devs, that i would like it to be answered. How the hell they reset the instance on the guardian site, in order to do the stupid round again and re-spawn the mats. Yea whats the right or the "intended" way to do it?
They go to super cruise and back again so many times, or they menu log which is even more pathetic?
Is there any other "proper" way?

 

[Alikat]

Normally whenever some one makes a thread complaining about the grindy engineer gameplay, some forum dad makes a smug reply along the lines of, 'Well I didn't know engineers were required gameplay?'

So incase it hasn't happened yet:

Well I didn't know guardian modules were required gameplay? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can play without them, go do something else, etc etc.

/s

 

[Franc Kaos]

I'll throw in a tenner... for the charity dev play not the weird chef offshoot conversation.

Also, would enjoy seeing them play it with just the info in game, so jump a thousand light years to the guardian site, then back a 1000LYs for the unmentioned Thargoid stuff*, then back another 1000LYs to finish the mission then the last 1000LYs return to the bubble to hand it in to Ram Tah.

* Not bothered with the Guardian stuff personally but I seem to remember reading somewhere (not in game) you needed Thargoid stuff to finish it.

 

[vidslo]

Normally whenever some one makes a thread complaining about the grindy engineer gameplay, some forum dad makes a smug reply along the lines of, 'Well I didn't know engineers were required gameplay?'

So incase it hasn't happened yet:

Well I didn't know guardian modules were required gameplay? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can play without them, go do something else, etc etc.

/s

THANK YOU! This thread didn't feel complete without it

Out of all the gripes people have with this game (which I have mine, but I still really love this game), this one is the most blatant example of the grind. There's no variation unless you force yourself to visit other guardian sites to collect the blueprints. There's just repetition for the sake of repetition to create some sense of ???? challenge? difficulty? TBH, I can't understand any other reason than 'because grinding is necessary'

I really, deep down, want to give Fdev the benefit of the doubt that they have (or will?) read this thread, acknowledge this issue, and make changes. But given we have 2 separate threads on page one, echoing the same general feeling, makes me feel that they're just going to leave it as it is.

Which is ultimately sad, because if that's how they're going to approach the thargoid/guardian narrative, then my participation in it will likely fade more over time because I play games to have fun, and when they no longer become fun, then I'll find other ones that do.

So Fdev, again, hopefully you're reading this and while not all the criticism has been, shall I say nice..., it's worthy of taking in and doing something about it.

 

[Punished Mobius]

Update...

"Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to stream it. I'm state side, and do not have the upload speed to be able to stream..."

OK fine fair enough you cannot personally do it. But I did say to him that does not stop you from getting this ball rolling within Fdev's ranks.

"The thread has been sent onwards to the team this morning, other than that - i don't know much more on the status of it than that.
Anyhow, 3.30pm, going to get me a late lunch."
-Brett C

Had to pester him on Discord but I did at least get some form of an answer. But there it is.

Now just for some of my open thoughts here...

I don't know what team he would have sent it to seeing as live streams and community interactions are kind of his department but what the heck do I know...

But in the end if any member of the community team decides they want this to actually be done and not just send it team to team or whatever. It can be done. There is nothing stopping Fdev but Fdev. And I have said this before but if the people who made a system are not willing to suffer it themselves then they need to check themselves.

If some lower level devs we have never seen on stream or anything wants to take this opportunity to jump into the spotlight and become darlings to the community this is the way to do it.

 

[Boff'in]

The problem is:
Chapter1 has to have "content" until chapter 2.
We have too few new mechanics to actually serve as story AND decent gameplay and some beautiful new assets.

So they have to make that content last.
Two ways are
- RNG (Increasing the need for RNG rares.)
- larger progress bars (x*n of the same fetch quest).


But the guardian's sites are fixed, with limited resources, exact mileage can be accounted for.
So if the RNG is fixed, how ELSE do you make limited asset driven content last longer.
Make people repeat it, so you set the progress bars REALLY high.

very lazy and very poor game design.

I think the thought process is to not mode swap but to actually go visit as many sites as possible.
Maybe there is something intentional the designers wanted people to see?

or similar to what we saw in 2.4 we see a group effort to acquire lots of materials, which then reduces the material demand in the next phase, and the next phase.

So (hopefully) the sky high shopping list, my degrade over time???

 

[Maro-Val]

Update...

"Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to stream it. I'm state side, and do not have the upload speed to be able to stream..."

OK fine fair enough you cannot personally do it. But I did say to him that does not stop you from getting this ball rolling within Fdev's ranks.

"The thread has been sent onwards to the team this morning, other than that - i don't know much more on the status of it than that.
Anyhow, 3.30pm, going to get me a late lunch."
-Brett C

Had to pester him on Discord but I did at least get some form of an answer. But there it is.

Now just for some of my open thoughts here...

I don't know what team he would have sent it to seeing as live streams and community interactions are kind of his department but what the heck do I know...

But in the end if any member of the community team decides they want this to actually be done and not just send it team to team or whatever. It can be done. There is nothing stopping Fdev but Fdev. And I have said this before but if the people who made a system are not willing to suffer it themselves then they need to check themselves.

If some lower level devs we have never seen on stream or anything wants to take this opportunity to jump into the spotlight and become darlings to the community this is the way to do it.

 

[Space Dandy]

Doesn't have enough upstream....lol What is he on 56k modem?

 

[Brett C]

Doesn't have enough upstream....lol What is he on 56k modem?

I'm rural, adsl life for me.