If someone from Fdev streams themselves unlocking all the Guardian tech. I will eat my eye patch.

[Stigbob]

No but I would like to invite you to my home so you can acquire these guardian weapons for me since you say you enjoy it so much (and I don't)

"Then you have to make a judgement call as to whether what you have to do is either worth the effort involved or can be approached in such a way as to make it fun in your opinion. I take small bites try to avoid grind and allow myself to be distracted by anything that takes my fancy, which works really well for me or I wouldn't be here after four years and is why I tried guardian stuff in the first place."

So at what point does Fdev's design flaws have to become my personal problem?

Most of your answers deflect the problem back on the person. Its not that Fdevs design is flawed but its that the player is flawed in their character or their approach according to much of your answers.

And that is just not true.

FDEV's design flaws (in your opinion) become your personal problem the instant you start experiencing conflict about them. You want the thing, but you don't want to go and get the thing hence conflict. Pick which one you want more and be happy, job done.

Trying to force FDEV's hand won't work at all in the short term it might lead to a balancing pass in the longer term, but you'll spend all that time being annoyed because you don't have the thing. If you were OK with not having the thing you wouldn't have started this thread.

If you really want the thing, stop wasting time and go get it you'll be happy faster than if a balancing pass happens.

 

[Lobey]

We've got a grip. You don't seem to have grasped the nature of the complaint, which is that the activity is boring.

Clear?

No - the main complaint I see (and agree with) is that doing it lots and lots of times is boring - quite a few folk found it ok at first.
I haven't at any time said doing it lots and lots of time is ok - I have said it needs rebalanced - higher drop rate, lower amounts required for items, more sites - any or all of those - take your pick.
As it stands the Guardian sites are "ok" - the actual design of the puzzle etc is fine - it just has a poor drop rate. At launch it had a very high (we later found "bugged" drop rate) - but this at least had the advantage of showing us how it would work with a higher drop rate and as far as I can see that's the only "fix" required.
VJ's thread has many interesting and worth discussing alternative ways of providing this sort of content - but, that is a different, though related discussion.

I also allowed myself some tongue in cheek digs at young folk these days feeling "entitled".

Clear?

 

[Lobey]

And yet people keep responding to him expecting an objective argument.

The chap is an obvious troll,who cant see the tree for the forrest cause his head is up his ahole

And you insult people you disagree with ?
It's a mainly light hearted disagreement about the implementation of something in a game.

 

[Stigbob]

And yet people keep responding to him expecting an objective argument.

The chap is an obvious troll,who cant see the tree for the forrest cause his head is up his ahole

You are only posting personal attacks because you can't think of anything better, at least "Stigbob smells he's positive about the game" and all the conspiracy theory people were funny.

Although the way you've mangled that idiom is pretty hilarious.

 

[THECATISDEAD]

FDEV: Get off your damn high horse and give us an answer that is worthy of your community please!

 

[El_Hefe]

You are only posting personal attacks because you can't think of anything better, at least "Stigbob smells he's positive about the game" and all the conspiracy theory people were funny.

Although the way you've mangled that idiom is pretty hilarious.

Your a troll,im treating you as one.

Its too obvious at this point. Ignoring arguements,not even knowing what the thread is about despite posting in it ad nauseum,attacking other posters,passive agressive nonsense,do i need to go on?

Nobody can have a reasoned discussion with you so why try...

And you insult people you disagree with ?
It's a mainly light hearted disagreement about the implementation of something in a game.

Nope,its trolling in my book.

 

[Stigbob]

Your a troll,im treating you as one.

Its too obvious at this point. Ignoring arguements,not even knowing what the thread is about despite posting in it ad nauseum,attacking other posters,passive agressive nonsense,do i need to go on?

Nobody can have a reasoned discussion with you so why try...

You haven't made an argument, you used insults and a mangled version of a common saying instead.

If that's the best you can do then in your own words "why try".

 

[El_Hefe]

You haven't made an argument, you used insults and a mangled version of a common saying instead.

If that's the best you can do then in your own words "why try".

Lol,another bait post,you love them dont you? All trolls do

Nothing mangled about it,you cant see the flaw in the guardian design because loads of other thing in elite are the same,you cant see the guardian tree for the elite forrest?

You even mentioned rank grind already.

Your a troll,end of imo.

 

[Lobey]

Your a troll,im treating you as one.

Its too obvious at this point. Ignoring arguements,not even knowing what the thread is about despite posting in it ad nauseum,attacking other posters,passive agressive nonsense,do i need to go on?

Nobody can have a reasoned discussion with you so why try...



Nope,its trolling in my book.

It's always very hard to tell with the written word, especially online when someone is being serious, whimsical etc - good rule of thumb is - would you repeat what you've written to the recipient in person to their face ?
Lets just agree to disagree perhaps ?

 

[El_Hefe]

It's always very hard to tell with the written word, especially online when someone is being serious, whimsical etc - good rule of thumb is - would you repeat what you've written to the recipient in person to their face ?
Lets just agree to disagree perhaps ?

Id have zero problem repeating anything ive said here to anyones face. Dont see what that has to do with anything.

Dont troll,bait post etc and theres no issue.

 

[Genus]

Nope,its trolling in my book.

It is a form of it, but mostly it's about controlling the message.

No one can compete with, let alone win an argument against apathy, it is it's very nature to not care about your counterpoint. Which is what drawing a false equivalencies between well regarded and previously identified issues amounts to. FD know this, so it's all about not taking the premise of this particular argument seriously...until FD care about it too.

Besides, I think arguing about it is redundant. I mean, people still think Tony Blair is nice, that Coca Cola is good for you, that when a woman says "Tell me if I'm wrong" you should take the comment at face value.

Doesn't mean that's the reality, so what you're essentially doing by taking up the ripped mantle, is arguing with someone else's reality. Which ain't going to go well to those not experiencing it.

Stick with the consensus, it's all FD should be interested in, whether some of their customers are easily led away from it or not.

 

[El_Hefe]

It is. Moreover it's about controlling the message.

No one can compete with, let alone win an argument against apathy, it is it's very nature to not care about your counterpoint. Which is what drawing a false equivalencies between well regarded and previously identified issues amounts to. FD know this, so it's all about not taking the premise of this particular argument seriously...until FD care about it too.

Besides, I think arguing about it is redundant. I mean, people still think Tony Blair is nice, that Coca Cola is good for you, that when a woman says "Tell me if I'm wrong" you should take the comment at face value.

Doesn't mean that's the reality, so what you're essentially doing by taking up the ripped mantle, is arguing with someone else's reality. Which ain't going to go well to those not experiencing it.

Stick with the consensus, it's all FD are interested in, whether some of them are easily led away from it or not.

Cant disagree with any of this, and first rule is always dont feed the troll. Ive failed on that count.

But hey,life goes on and hopefully some day we get a response from FDev about some of this. Even just knowing their thought process on the design,what they were aiming for. Maybe they just missed the mark on the one aspect of it. I wont hold my breath but ye never know.

If i had to guess id say they wont engage because they know we wont like the answer. Ive only been playing for just over 18 months and on the forums for a few months so maybe i need to learn thats just the way FDev are

 

[Genus]

<snip>Even just knowing their thought process on the design</snip>

 

[Enderby]

I thought that FD has responded but it was just that early humorous and flippant FD post.

Got me!

 

[Stigbob]

Lol,another bait post,you love them dont you? All trolls do

Nothing mangled about it,you cant see the flaw in the guardian design because loads of other thing in elite are the same,you cant see the guardian tree for the elite forrest?

You even mentioned rank grind already.

Your a troll,end of imo.

No you mangled the saying you used three posts ago.

I've already explained having done some guardian stuff (unlike most posters in here) point by point including timings and combat tips and in conclusion I enjoy it and it's not a big deal. You might like it to if you give it a bash, rather than just moaning. You'll also get the stuff faster.

It is a form of it, but mostly it's about controlling the message.

No one can compete with, let alone win an argument against apathy, it is it's very nature to not care about your counterpoint. Which is what drawing a false equivalencies between well regarded and previously identified issues amounts to. FD know this, so it's all about not taking the premise of this particular argument seriously...until FD care about it too.

Besides, I think arguing about it is redundant. I mean, people still think Tony Blair is nice, that Coca Cola is good for you, that when a woman says "Tell me if I'm wrong" you should take the comment at face value.

Doesn't mean that's the reality, so what you're essentially doing by taking up the ripped mantle, is arguing with someone else's reality. Which ain't going to go well to those not experiencing it.

Stick with the consensus, it's all FD should be interested in, whether some of their customers are easily led away from it or not.

The mods and FDEV are the only people who can control the narrative, and they don't bother as long as people stay reasonably nice and the subjects as trivial as this one.

But that's exactly what a Russian bot, secret dev or saboteur would say .

I thought that FD has responded but it was just that early humorous and flippant FD post.

Got me!

Yep when the community manager is taking the mickey out of you, you've got problems or you don't really have problems which may have been the point.

 

[El_Hefe]

@Genus
Ha,certainly feels like that some of the time

 

[Genus]

The mods and FDEV are the only people who can control the narrative, and they don't bother as long as people stay reasonably nice and the subjects as trivial as this one.

What a curious notion. Next meeting I'm in, I'll be sure to comment on how reasonable and nice some of them are being....and how the end users have passed on the message they should be rewarded for not caring about what they are doing.

Yep when the community manager is taking the mickey out of you, you've got problems or you don't really have problems which may have been the point.

Alternatively, you could say he's having a bad day at work.

The tip of that particular iceberg must be razor sharp by now. I sympathise with the CM's. They'll be very busy come christmas. I just hope belittling other peoples issues and then hiding under a desk for weeks, doesn't scale. If it's a real strategy, just think of all the important battles other people will have to fight for them down the line.

I mean...anything could happen. I've read Lord of the Flies. That's some real dark biowaste right there.

 

[Genus]

@Genus
Ha,certainly feels like that some of the time

I struggle to think of an incidence where it hasn't. It's either that or ten pictures on a dart board.

 

[Stigbob]

What a curious notion. Next meeting I'm in, I'll be sure to comment on how reasonable and nice some of them are being....and how the end users have passed on the message they should be rewarded for not caring about what they are doing.

It's just another currently fashionable moan after half of decade of exactly the same about every single thing FDEV have ever done or said. The mods won't even notice unless people start flinging naughty words about.

"GAH I don't the video game thing" is always trivial, and very easily solved by not doing it.

Alternatively, you could say he's having a bad day at work.

The tip of that particular iceberg must be razor sharp by now. I sympathise with the CM's. They'll be very busy come christmas. I just hope belittling other peoples issues and then hiding under a desk for weeks, doesn't scale.

It's not an iceberg it's just the tip of a sugar cube melting in a stormy cup of tea.

I don't think they are hiding, they just don't care about forum whining as it's a constant thing of no importance.

 

[Genus]

It's just another currently fashionable moan after half of decade of exactly the same about every single thing FDEV have ever done or said. The mods won't even notice unless people start flinging naughty words about.

"GAH I don't the video game thing" is always trivial, and very easily solved by not doing it.



It's not an iceberg it's just the tip of a sugar cube melting in a stormy cup of tea.

I don't think they are hiding, they just don't care about forum whining as it's a constant thing of no importance.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...my-eye-patch?p=6650653&viewfull=1#post6650653