If this game doesnt have the Elite/Frontier magic why not - what does it need?

[Miimis Maks]

And that is my question. How would that be achieved?

This quote answers it

Why should a videogame - something one plays in the spare few hours of everyday life - require tons of "work"? And, yes, the mission rewards for the most part really are giving next to nothing. Especially later on, when you're looking at moving up from a 3-mil specced Cobra onto, say, an Asp. Still think those 1000-credit courier missions, or those 5-10`000-credit trade missions are worthwhile "work"? Especially when fuel costs, damage costs, repairs all cut into the profits in a significant way, when you're looking at mission payouts.

And he's not wrong about that in any way. Missions so far are generally "dock, Bulletin-board, undock, jump, dock, bulletin-board (optionally undock, jump back, bulletin-board)". That IS boring. Especially when mission payouts make you do hundreds of them to earn anything notable. Why are you snarking about this?


Mining IS tedious. Well, unless you enjoy being constantly jumped on by pirates n the 'official' mining instances. Must be fun for the people who decide to do mining and not, you know, a pvp combat game...




Talk about unforgiving, eh... One stray shot (or even other players DELIBERATELY flying into the already-fired projectile stream to get a free warrant kill) and you're insta-wanted and hostile.




Oh god forbid that things would actually happen at a reasonable pace in a videogame! No no can't have that. Let's instead tune everything so that there's 90% of downtime and 10% of docking. Good 'game' for listening to podcasts/radio!




Riight, yes, that's exploration. Seeing the exact same 3 stations in 30 systems, with the exact same general wares and same price ranges (medium/low demand only, all the time), that's "exploration". yep. Gotcha.
I bet all the great real-world explorers spent a lot of time "exploring" their local hometowns' market stalls. Going round and round to the same market, finding the same wares. "Exploring" yep gotcha.


The problem is, the game does NOT give an indication that you've achieved anything.
Take this example - yesterday I spent 4-5 hours doing missions for an Empire faction in an independent system, trying to boost their influence. 4 hours (let's round this down so you're happy). Must have been near 20 missions, all successful. What do you think the result was? Faction's influence didn't budge one bit. Not at all. Not even a blue arrow at their influence bar in the system factions list.
Like - I was not expecting to singlehandedly make them 55%. I WAS, however, expecting to SEE at least SOME indication that I made a difference. AT LEAST show me "yeah, your work helped by 0.9%". The game doesn't say this, and I'm left wondering if I did anything at all, or if all my 4 hours of (largely not very profitable, because mission rewards are low) work amounted to 0.000% change.
This problem extends to all aspects of the game - it doesn't make you feel like you've managed to achieve something, even with a HUGE investment of time.
Go out, explore 10 unexplored systems. Might take a couple of hours. Go back, sell the data, and.. what changes in the galaxy? Nothing. What changes in the sectors you gave the data to? Nothing. What changes in the sectors you explored? Is there now more NPC activity? Is there any expansion going on? Nope. Nothing.
Fly around and jump into USS hunting pirates. Or at the resource extraction sites. Spend like 5 hours doing that. Kill hundreds of baddies. What changes? Nothing. Is the system safer for traders? Nope. Are there less pirates eventually? Nope. Do pirates start responding to your sustained attack campaign? Nope. What impact have your actions achieved on the game state? Budger all.
Spend a couple of hours raising your reputation with a minor faction. Say, from neutral to allied. Might take a couple of hours. Okay, at the end, their stations and ships have gone from orange to dark green. What changes because of that? Nothing. Do you get better prices in their stations? Nope. Do they jump into combat instances to help you? Nope. Do their ships in FSD cruising mode comm you, have a quick chat to an ally? Nope. Do they give you access to a "friends-only" private stock of modules, wares, weapons, sensors? Nope. What's the sum total of your work? Different colour scheme on the target hologram.


But apparently it's okay, because it's "working towards something".. So what is it that you're working towards? What is this big, grand, huge achievement that requires tens of hours to even SEE the SLIGHTEST indication of change? It better be something huge, mind, because during this time, you could have read a ton of new books, watched several (good) movies, or gone out and spent a jolly good day with friends. So, again, what is this thing that you're working towards that offsets all this?




No, YOU still have to show where PvP / space-battle centrism was meant. All of his points are about the PACING and FEEDBACK of the game mechanics (which, surprise surprise, are not set in stone and CAN be improved to be more fun), how does that in any way imply a necessity for more combat?



So.. In summary, "Really?!?"

Problem. It's just a shell.

 

[OxKing]

I really think it's Planetary landing and third person view.

Also Frontier was more abstract, from the controll and the flight mechanics.
It was complicated. I always loved the complicated games i don't fully understood as a child / teenager. Figuring out what's going on and what to do was part of the fun.
Maybe this is one thing ED feels maybe a bit dull to people.

For a game in 2015 i think there could be more modern things going on.
I would love to have radio chatter between me and the stations and also for the npc ships talking to me instead of typing and making their docking and launch requests with the Stations.

Also: More moving things in and outside of stations.
Cranes and Cars, walking people and personal.

Station Menu is too static too.
In Frontier you got those Peoples you where taking to.
Not missing them really, but they brought some change in there and a sense of a world, not just a spreadsheed.

 

[Tradesman]

Being different is not a merit in and of itself.
Everything related to what I described before in ED is strictly worse than in EVE.

Yes it is and we all have our opinions of the game.

 

[AJ_Impy]

I played Elite, and absolutely loved it. I played Frontier and loved it even more. I played First Encounters and it was a buggy piece of prematurely released bloatware, which, when I got it to work, I loved.

This game, this series, this genre reaches out to me. I enjoy it on several levels, from the purely aesthetic to making yourself into whatever you want to be up from a pauper in a piece of junk to a veritable demigod in an untouchable moneymaking death machine. For me, Elite Dangerous still has that in absolute spades: Finding profitable activities, choosing a vessel to suit my play style and customizing it as I see fit, blowing up enemies in immensely satisfying ways, dozens upon dozens upon dozens of little triumphs from making a seven digit rare trading profit to taking on a bigger, better armed, ostensibly more elite ship and blowing it to smithereens with a victorious musical flourish punctuated by visceral internal detonations and flying debris.

I wanted a modern sequel to Elite, Frontier and First Encounters which had continuity with what had gone before. I got what I paid for and more.

 

[EUBanana]

Yep, game wont survive long unless something like this is in it. It will compete with star citizen which will have some form of these, and everything elite does only it will do it better. Unless Elite became a true sandbox where players can interact in the universe and economy i don't see the game lasting outside a few people that will play it in single player , for reasons unknown to me.

God no. I'd much rather have everything done indirectly and remaining in the hands of the NPC factions.

I'd like to see the NPC factions made more glitzy though, more visible and more real than merely a number in your HUD or in a GalNet News file.

 

[Khavi]

I played -=ELITE=- 1984 for a couple of months and it was fun. It was new. It was different. It was the first of its kind and I loved it. I was not impressed by Frontier Elite at all.

Because I loved -=ELITE=-, I then went on to play lots of other space exploration games like the X series, EvE and even DarkStar One (PC and 360!) because they all had elements of the original -=ELITE=- and they moved the genre forwards, or added some other fun elements.

I supported ED because I wanted the creators of the original -=ELITE=- to take their property and bring it up to date. I was hoping for more than just new graphics. I deliberately waited until it was close to release and they had announced 'no wipe' to start playing, so it would all be fresh and fun and hopefully less buggy.

I like the huge scope of the Galaxy.

I was, and still am, disappointed by the Online requirement. I am disappointed that travelling takes longer than it used to in the original. I am disappointed that the ship's onboard computer has all the processing power of an Atari ST (I'm being generous here). I am disappointed that the interface is a horribly, clunky mess. I am disappointed that the future has not moved on in 30 years like our own present time has.

I'm getting ready to go off and explore the galaxy for kicks.

I've tried Bounty Hunting, it was boring. I've tried Mining, it's a horribly fiddly boring pain in the buttocks. Trading is a necessary evil to equip my exploration ship and has been a horrible grind so far.

I completely understand why others are disappointed and I don't understand the game 'supporters' who are stuck in the stone age and want steam powered ships with an abacus on board.

If I wanted to play -=ELITE=- 1984, I could download it and it certainly would not be worth more than DarkStar One and would have less content, if we're honest...

The game, for me, feels like a huge step backwards. I didn't buy into it for nostalgia, I wanted a great space exploration game with bells and whistles and computers that know how to communicate with stations and remember what they were told, but that's just me.

Bring on the Neanderthals Apes and get one of them to toss a piece of 1984 Rebar next to a monolith for me, will you, before they start flaming us?

Where are the people, that like this game, ever said they don't wish to see it grow or have more added? We do want more, and we want things fixed, and added. We just know that things take time. There is no magic wand that can be waved over a computer that will make the game over night for you or anyone. Braben has delivered a foundation for a bigger game, a foundation that plays as well as the original Elite - but better.

Even EVE Online was just a sparse shell of a game when it was first released. It took years of changes and additions for EVE to get where it is it. Skyrim was a great game when it was first released to the gaming public, but you know what - the Skyrim with MODS is head and shoulders above the original. Even games like Minecraft, and DayZ take time to get better - hell DayZ is great game - but it is still in early release and is not due to be officially released until late 2015.

Elite Dangerous has a great foundation...better than most of the crappy half- MMORPG's released today. I for one look forward to being a part of this game and watch it grow. I have patience. Just like I did with EVE and any number of games that have come out.

 

[Unpleasant]

Wow... Really? I had no idea this was a problem. In my time of trading, I was never attacked by any player. If the pirates stick to established trade routes, maybe try doing some research and find a trade route that isn't in a populated area?

Which is what I've done. It's a less profitable route, but a much safer one. Which means I'll be having to grind even longer.
Without that element of having to fight a few waves of enemy ships when you were flying to every station in the original, I feel trading has lost something it once had.

Sure I could use a cobra to trade, but even if I swap stuff out for a decent cargo size, I'm still not going to be as capable as a dedicated combat cobra, so again it just makes trading take even long.

So what to do, take a lot longer safe trading or risk losing it all on another player...

I'm simply saying the 'take a lot longer safe trading' will put many people off, they'll get bored of doing nothing but trading for a month or 2 and feel the game is just, as other have said, 'space trucker sim 2014'

 

[Tubit]

What concerns me most is the apparent lack of purpose of the AI ships, they don't seem to be doing anything.

I was hoping that every ship would have a reason for existence, but it seems that they are just there for the sake of it.

X3 did this very well, every ship had a role to play, which made for an extremely immersive game world.

I agree. NPC ships seem to have little functionality beyond simply existing. Either they attack you, or they don't. That's about it. I've been to navigational beacons and often found myself asking: "Wait... WHY are these ships all here again? Is there a secret activity going on here I don't know about? Why is this Lakon 9 dropping out of supercruise with a two-ship escort right here?". The point is that there easily could be a reason why, but at the moment it really doesn't feel like it.

 

[Unpleasant]

I agree. NPC ships seem to have little functionality beyond simply existing. Either they attack you, or they don't. That's about it. I've been to navigational beacons and often found myself asking: "Wait... WHY are these ships all here again? Is there a secret activity going on here I don't know about? Why is this Lakon 9 dropping out of supercruise with a two-ship escort right here?". The point is that there easily could be a reason why, but at the moment it really doesn't feel like it.

NPCs ships interact with you depending on quiet a few things.

 

[Larry]

What I want to see is more faction specific craft and items. That is affordable for us mere mortals without fat bank accounts. Perhaps these items should require faction rank to reward us and give us a sense of achievement.

This game is abit lacking at the moment, but Rome wasn't built in one day. I'm confident that the content is incoming.

 

[ozlizard]

It does have that magic and so much more.

Next thread...

Sigh....another completely, head in the sandbox, dismissive reply. You my friend are in the minority.

 

[kurush]

Sigh....another completely, head in the sandbox, dismissive reply. You my friend are in the minority.

It certainly does have that Elite magic that made me starting that old game and its close for the last 30 years. And the rest of people can really go Eve, Star Citizen or whereever if they don't like the concept. I'd enjoy some infrastructure ownership here, but I can live without it just fine.

 

[Alric]

NPCs ships interact with you depending on quiet a few things.

Chiefly the fact that their sole reason for existence is to interact with you according to a few extremely basic preset scripts.

 

[The Space Pirate]

Too much time in supercruise and watching fancy mechanics in a space station is an issue to me. In Elite, you'd just hit the jump button a few times and be in orbit. Now we can have an x (or xx!!) minute session just watching a bright dot and a number counting down. Hitting launch and sitting watching the same machinery moving over and over and over... Nice animations. Double up the speeds. Something. ANYTHING. Make supercruise speed up and slow down faster to spend less time just watching a dot...

Hmmm...I am not yet sold on Supercruise. Seems it could do with more automation so when you approach the destination, the ship automatically drops out of supercruise. The way it is now, you can either drop out too early and have to go back in, or you drop out too late and end up miles past the station. Frontier got round that by having an autopilot which, when combined with the 'Stardreamer system' (AKA speeding up time), worked perfectly. Where's the 'autopilot' in ED?

 

[Rockett]

Which is what I've done. It's a less profitable route, but a much safer one. Which means I'll be having to grind even longer.
Without that element of having to fight a few waves of enemy ships when you were flying to every station in the original, I feel trading has lost something it once had.

Sure I could use a cobra to trade, but even if I swap stuff out for a decent cargo size, I'm still not going to be as capable as a dedicated combat cobra, so again it just makes trading take even long.

So what to do, take a lot longer safe trading or risk losing it all on another player...

I'm simply saying the 'take a lot longer safe trading' will put many people off, they'll get bored of doing nothing but trading for a month or 2 and feel the game is just, as other have said, 'space trucker sim 2014'

ummm - just a suggestion? why don't you run your profitable route in solo for a bit?

That's what I've been doing tonight - I'm full of turkey and can't be bothered dodging pirates so I've stuck on some tunes and farmed my trade routes for some cash. There's no hard and fast rule saying you have to stay in open play all the time.

 

[Jetman]

Firstly, i'd like to say how refreshing it is to see a thread like this openly discussing personal opinion without demands for how the game should be. It's nice to see.

I think for me at least, the current incarnation is already very enjoyable. It retains the feeling that I had of the originals where you are free to do whatever you want to do, whatever that may be. I think that I prefer the vagueness of the game as opposed to the more story driven games like starlancer, as the cutscenes, even as simple as visiting a bar, tended to drag me out of my own opinion of how the universe was supposed to be. I know many people liked that, but it didn't really sit well with me.

I think it says much of my own opinion that I am much more looking forward to planetary landings than getting out of the pilots seat and walking around.

All in all, I think that there is already a fantastic base to work with, and I would get a lot of enjoyment from the game as it stands, as I already do. The continued development of the game will hopefully just make the game better and better.

I also see that there are a lot of people who would like players and groups to be able to have a huge influence on systems; blockades, player controlled systems and such, but personally, I would prefer that is not the case. I like the fact that an individual player can continue to play their own game without having to be part of a larger group.

As for improvements, just the little things that others have already mentioned, improving the ability to communicate and group with other small groups of players, an expansion of mission types and the basic ongoing development that I'm sure frontier developments already have in mind.

Looking forward to playing this for some time to come.

Edited for typo's

 

[Stressfest]

It's exactly as it was back in 84 with some tinsel and the machine that goes 'bing'. It's exactly how I imagined it in my head as a 13yo kid, flying through space, trading and fighting.. pure magic. As it stands that's all it is really, just a reincarnation of what we've already seen and in this day and age I think we want more. Thankfully David has us covered and we'll have planetary landing and more ships that we can poke a stick at... I for one cannot wait for xmas next year and see how far this game has come. I bet it will be epic

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

ELITE doesn't need anything, it's like the '84 game which makes it entirely capable and competent in today's video game markets. If anyone wants anything else, they outta GO play something else!

FYI: There is absolutely no sarcasm implied in this post. At all.

 

[Leermeister]

ELITE doesn't need anything, it's like the '84 game which makes it entirely capable and competent in today's video game markets. If anyone wants anything else, they outta GO play something else!

already there playing other games that have more to offer then Elite, of 1984.

Who says this game wont last forever.

 

[burzum]

I see a lot of posts complaining about this game saying is dull, basic etc. So what happened? Why isnt this game as good as the old Frontier game of old that we all loved?

It's not 1984 anymore. Well, the guys who wanted a copy of the old games are the die hard fans who resist any change now and cheer because it seems they're OK with a boring space truck "simulator" and love to write routes down on paper or into Excel sheets.

Probably they are the loudest die hard fanboy crowd, but I doubt they're the majority today. The game just lacks a living and believable universe. If you're happy with just trucking virtual goods from A to B and spending hours in "super boring cruise" you've already got your simple time sink. Be happy.

I'm to lazy to repeat myself and lots of other people here, so to make it short: The game lacks any depth. Anything that would create a binding with the player. There are NO reason to do anything, it lacks the purpose to do something. Why would I do something for any of the factions? No "face", not even a simple logo, no background story nothing that makes me think "Hey I want to do something for them because...!". The only goal right now is to get more money and the next ship or better equipment. But wait... What can I do better with the next better ship? Right: Making more money by trade or kills. Why would I help any of the three major factions? Besides the fact they don't even feature visual differences you'll have to read plenty of text and you have to follow Galnet to get the story. I personally don't mind doing it but that's like reading a book. I can read it but it won't impact my game. I don't care if I kill Feds or Empire - it's the same and my benefit (Credits) is the same.

Now some fanboy will jump in screaming "BUT ITS ALL ABOUT YOUR IMAGINATION!" Seriously? If I would just like to use my imagination I would read a book and not play a game that lacks any purpose and depth. Also I don't understand why these people resist. They already got their dull space trucking, why do they complain about adding more things that make the game interesting for people who don't want to be a space trucker?

On the other hand some of them praise the game for being not modern and easy. Seriously? That's a joke? Point ship on planet, press button, planed scanned - WOW! THAT WAS HARD!!! Exploration is pointless and incredible simple right now. Also I personally would have preferred a game design that won't allow people to reach the core or other side of the galaxy within days or weeks. On the one side they praise the size of space that is "simulated" by making me falling asleep while being in super boring cruise but on the other hand I can travel through the whole galaxy in just a few days? C'mon... Also I consider the game as easy but what it really lacks, and people are used to that 2014, is a good introduction to everything, the tutorials are a start but don't cover everything. So instead of being harsh to newbies just help help if you're such a super space trucker.

I've already deinstalled the game and might come back in 6 - 12 month and see how it has evolved or not by then if I can't manage to get a refund or sell the account before. And yea, don't bother me with the EULA, in Germany it is valid to sell used software as Microsoft had to learn as well.