If this game doesnt have the Elite/Frontier magic why not - what does it need?

[Tradesman]

This is something I've read here on the forums that confuses me: that people want ED to die. They don't want people (but them) to play it, they don't want FD to make more money to improve the product.

I think it is people that are here complaining how dull it is, that will eventually put people off.
I think we should wait and see if this is the final game before making noises like it is.

 

[Perjoss]

I think this game is only missing that magic if you're one of those people that has trouble removing the rose tinted specs. For now the game feels a bit too easy overall, I've only lost 2 ships, 1 when I forgot to ask for docking permission (I think a heavy fine would have been enough lol) and the other was crashing into the station entrance from my own stupidity, so I guess to keep the game true to the originals they might have to add a bit more difficulty, but apart from that I am absolutely *** loving Elite Dangerous.

You could watch a few lets plays on youtube if you want to get a better idea of what the older games were like, but seriously the combat in those games although was fantastic for when they came out, just does not stand the test of time well at all, if you go back and play them now after playing some of the modern space 'sims' you will not be impressed.

this is a pretty good series!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqhP_e855C4&list=PL9E1E1F7AA6193498&index=2

 

[Sztripi]

Simple powers of deduction and logic dear Watson, since they don't post such info.
If through Alpha and Gamma there has been no such request for NPCs to change then one can accurately deduce that because the request for any change in the behaviour NPCs was made after launch end of gamma, it had to be new comers making the request.

I am now confused. Lets see your statement, and lets use logic.

Premise: 1. During alpha or gamma there have been no demands to dumb down the NPC -s.

Okay I was there, I also did not see any demands. We agree there.

Premise: 2. The behavior of the NPC changed.

Well I do not agree. Changed how? I see no change. The NPC make no attempt to survive, to communicate in any meaningful way. They are exactly the same as earlier during the gamma. I have never been able to talk to any NPC in gamma in alpha or in beta for that matter. When was this magical period when I could communicate? I have managed to miss it completely while playing the whole time. SO I REJECT YOUR SECOND PREMISE.

Premise 3. There are newcomers.

Yes there are.

Conclusion: There has been a request by newcomers to dumb down the game.

You will notice that the conclusion has nothing to do with the premises. Logically what you have written is meaningless. It is ill formed and not valid or even sound. It even manages to break the laws of physics. The newcomers that came after somehow managed to influence the past when the game was made, with their then nonexistent requests.

At this time the only conclusion is that you are making an adhominem attack on the newcomers. This is not nice. I may be an old grizzled cynic, but still I would never say to you for instance: "When have you stopped beating your wife?", because what you have did is the exactly the same.

PS Have you noticed that I have still said it. Now that is called passive aggressive attitude, just for future reference.

 

[Kimball K Kinnison]

I see a lot of posts complaining about this game saying is dull, basic etc. So what happened? Why isnt this game as good as the old Frontier game of old that we all loved? What is the magic ingredient that is missing here that was present elsewhere? Was the original Frontier all that deep really? Was it all that immersive? Did you really play Elite for months or just for a few hours?
.
.
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What do you think? Too pessimistic? Are are we kidding ourselves here? Are we ever going to get the game we really want to see?

I wasn't an Elite player - by the time I tried it I'd been hooked on WC and its sequels for a while and I didn't 'get' it. However as a long time X pilot (from BTF) I like games with more depth than WC, ground breaking though that was at the time. ED looked like a possibility, especially after the disaster that was X-R, as does SC (which is frankly pretty crap atm).

ED is pretty, I like the flight mechanics and the scale: I don't want my actions to alter the state of politics in an entire system immediately, in RL I can't even get the Parish Council to listen to me. However it would be nice if there seemed to be /some/ sort believable interaction with NPCs, in the ways many others have suggested.

The supercruise and autopilot need fixing, cameras would be nice, the missions need some depth, I'd like some narrative. I suppose the thing is that at present it isn't immersive enough to make up for the grinding and it doesn't feel like I'm on the way anywhere.

 

[Beermachine]

For me it's incredibly simple, Elite was my first space sim. The 80's were a great time in game development, new genres were being invented almost every year, and being inovated, refined and improved on constantly (both technically due to vastly increasing processing / graphical power and gameplay wise). All the first's hold a special place in my heart, Wolfenstein 3d, Dune, Bard's Tale, Elite, King's Quest, Theme games, Railroad Tycoon, Civilisation, Microprose, Silent Hunter, Red Baron, etc.
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To expect the same when older, much more jaded and with a lot of other similar games to compare to would be delusional. Gaming has advanced considerably, Civ 4 is far superior to Civ 1, but doesn't hold the same magic.
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I could make a massive list of improvements, but that would be highly subjective. Some want ED to be a clone of Elite, some want a ED/Eve hybrid, some ED/Freelancer and others ED/X. Personally, I'm not bothered, but I do feel it certainly needs something extra. Something completely new would be ideal, but it's not the 80's anymore and a lot of things have been done before, so incorporating aspects from other space games, or even other genres seems a sensible approach.

 

[Icarus1]

The game is boring. That's is that. I have desperately tried to like it, and still trying to...

The problem is that the universe is empty. Nothing changes at all... All the elements are here but they are flawed. You have no effect on anything. Let me give you a couple of examples.

edit .....and so on......

Agreed with everything you said.
Elite is missing the human touch. The closest what we get from "humans" is space stations telling us they gonna blast us into spacedust if we loiter around. Or pirates wants our cargo. The game is very negative, when it comes to interactions. It's either hostile or nothing at all.

Here is another game from a decade ago. This is how to do make the player feel like they are being involved with something. This one is still my all time favorites, the beginning is better than many space sims I can remember.

[video=youtube_share;7DtwfHyHCoE]http://youtu.be/7DtwfHyHCoE[/video]

 

[Sztripi]

Agreed with everything you said.
Elite is missing the human touch. The closest what we get from "humans" is space stations telling us they gonna blast us into spacedust if we loiter around. Or pirates wants our cargo. The game is very negative, when it comes to interactions. It's either hostile or nothing at all.

Here is another game from a decade ago. This is how to do make the player feel like they are being involved with something. This one is still my all time favorites, the beginning is better than many space sims I can remember.

[video=youtube_share;7DtwfHyHCoE]http://youtu.be/7DtwfHyHCoE[/video]

Oh yes. It was a glorious game. I find the alien races rather bland (admittedly a personal preference), but the gameplay is superb. No lets be honest with ourselves it IS better than ED at this moment.

 

[Elenoe]

I like new ED. Played F and FE a lot. It was new. Not just space sim. But the only open world trading game. No game brought universe as Frontier had. X, Freelancer and others, while good games on their own, failed miserably with their "small sector jumpgates driven" universe.

ED has almost everything old game had and improved everything. It's a "remake" as it should be. How could anyone complain in the light of new XCOM, Skyrim, Thief, Tomb Raider which just took the good name to make completely different game and loose the spirit of original? ED has the spirit of original. It's the same, made for better tech we have now. And it's a good start.

It works nicely since alpha. Things were/are added often. And it's unique on the field. No other game has universe like this (EVE is close). And few other games has sim abilities like this (Evochron has, but lacks all other things).

So many people just wants this game dead. Hope it's not from jealousy of SC never achieved (or ever achieve) in the given time. It's enough to be a good Elite game already. With no reason to believe it won't improve in time. David Braben has his vision and unlike others is actually able to make it real with given resources.

So just choose if you like it or not. Play it or not. If you think it's good tell your friends. Just don't try to make your own dreams real in other man's dream. You have SC for that. There you can dream of any universe you want. Since they never deliver any yours will work for next few years and you can enjoy sweet dreams until then.

Here should people just place their ideas what they think would make game better (with reasonably resources spent). Developers will decide. No need to fight, defend and convince others about them. That's not constructive critic. That's trolling.

 

[Tradesman]

I am now confused. Lets see your statement, and lets use logic.

Premise: 1. During alpha or gamma there have been no demands to dumb down the NPC -s.

Okay I was there, I also did not see any demands. We agree there.

Premise: 2. The behavior of the NPC changed.

Well I do not agree. Changed how? I see no change. The NPC make no attempt to survive, to communicate in any meaningful way. They are exactly the same as earlier during the gamma. I have never been able to talk to any NPC in gamma in alpha or in beta for that matter. When was this magical period when I could communicate? I have managed to miss it completely while playing the whole time. SO I REJECT YOUR SECOND PREMISE.

Premise 3. There are newcomers.

Yes there are.

Conclusion: There has been a request by newcomers to dumb down the game.

You will notice that the conclusion has nothing to do with the premises. Logically what you have written is meaningless. It is ill formed and not valid or even sound. It even manages to break the laws of physics. The newcomers that came after somehow managed to influence the past when the game was made, with their then nonexistent requests.

At this time the only conclusion is that you are making an adhominem attack on the newcomers. This is not nice. I may be an old grizzled cynic, but still I would never say to you for instance: "When have you stopped beating your wife?", because what you have did is the exactly the same.

PS Have you noticed that I have still said it. Now that is called passive aggressive attitude, just for future reference.

You can disagree all you want, your words are like froth upon the ocean.
The facts are NPCs interactions have been dumbed down and its was done so only at or after launch after much complaining be new comers not in Alpha or gamma. common sense tells you the reasons. Look back on the threads yourself.
Don't matter in what context.
You are confused because it suits tour discussion or something else.

 

[Sztripi]

Those that want the game dead do not post on this forum they post on Facebook...

The game is not good enough already.

I am bored and I have nothing to do in it. Nothing. There are nobody else but me in it. Nobody else. The justice system is stupid, the missions are stupid, the universe is empty...

What can I do in the game? I can fly between station and shoot. That is all. Even that is limited. Can I be generous and spare the life of an attacker? No. Does a pirate flee from superior force? No. Why doesn't the Empire for instance interferes in the slave rebellion, by sending in a fleet? If there would be outside influences aiding a slave rebellion on a planet I bet the NAVY would interfere. How can a group of rugged pilot's defy the will of the federation? No they can't. Why getting the rank of Baron in the Empire does not give me some privilege? It is cosmetic. Nothing changes. By the same right I could say that I am helping the Zorxians and I have gained the rank of Bloxmorf and now I will be able to do exactly the same things....

But I digress.

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You can disagree all you want, your words are like froth upon the ocean.
The facts are NPCs interactions have been dumbed down and its was done so only at or after launch after much complaining be new comers not in Alpha or gamma. common sense tells you the reasons. Look back on the threads yourself.
Don't matter in what context.
You are confused because it suits tour discussion or something else.

And Yet you fail to say how are they dumbed down. What was different before launch? Why do you refuse showing me?

Let's forget your adhominem on the newcomers. I really really REALLY would like you to show me what was dumbed down. I am not a proud man. If you can show it to me I will acknowledge it immediately.

 

[Elenoe]

The game is not good enough already.

I am bored and I have nothing to do in it. Nothing.

Exactly what my friend said about Terraria. You see the point?

There are nobody else but me in it. Nobody else. The justice system is stupid, the missions are stupid, the universe is empty... What can I do in the game? I can fly between station and shoot.

same as old Frontier (but better), same as old X (but much better). I even have friends there but since it's impossible to track our movement or cooperate on missions yup, I'm alone as well as I don't really understand pointless PvP in games (EVE excluded where PvP has a reason and results). But still good enough.

I wonder what you expected when you saw "new Elite game" I expected less then this. HUD is amazing. Their solution to travel is as good as MP allows. Their universe is the best. Some balancing and fixes needed don't make bad game for me.

I see your point. I just rely on what is done and it is done quite well. Much better then average AAA game with broken everything. And based on development process I don't have much reason to believe things like this won't be addressed. But it's still good work since KS. Can't you be just happy with that?

 

[nats]

For me, I don't think ED needs to have the First Person element for deeps. Nice to have, but not Need to have.
Nor do I think players need to be about to Build stuff - factories colonies stations capital ships etc.
Landing on planetary star bases & unsanctioned landing fields would enough with some sight seeing on the way.

But before all that, some hopefully more smaller ideas

• City lights that can be seen from orbit ala the pictures in the news letters (might be on hold for Planetary landings for the lights don't change when me can do down to the planets?)
• Having diagloue boxes in the bulletin board to ask questions about the missions, ala Fronter and FEE
• The Naval Missions should involve more that one promotion per mission, as they are easier to progress up the ranks than faction or sub faction reputation. Loyal service at a rank over several missions for the Navy in question, should unlock the promotion mission. Higher ranks might require high local faction reputations.
  • So for example
  • We get sufficient reputation with the faction, they offer the first mission a go fetch
  • We complete the mission and get awarded the rank.
  • The Navy then offers a few more similar missions until you are trusted with a more important mission for promotion
  • The cycle continues but having positive reputation with a number of Faction member systems might be require for important Promotions
• Tie in of Naval Missions to the Story Line, eg those Senators are bound to have pull with the Imperial Navy and have station calling for 'volunteers'
• Caned messages to send to NPC ships to have limited interaction.
• Long Distance missions for the delivery and courier missions
• Passengers and passenger cabins to give those Orcas a place to shine and something for those Service and Tourist systems to have a bustling for

i think this post is spot on for me. Frontier had some lovely little touches that made you feel like you were having a conversation. This game is just too bland in the comms department for me. When I read this post it reminds me of all the things ED is missing like interaction with NPCs, following bounties, passengers and crews, better mission chains etc. I hope these things get into ED eventually.

 

[Stench]

I can't really speak for the Frontier magic but it has the Elite magic.

One thing I truly miss though is chasing down cargo canisters. And losing some as they got too far off/lost. I hope they bring that back instead of canisters with inertial dampeners.

Since you negative rep me for a disliking of watching a dot and numbers counting down for minutes on end, perhaps you could at least have the decency to explain to me how that is in any way the same as the original Elite and what exactly it is you enjoy about minutes of doing nothing but watch said bright dot and number counting down?

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Hmmm...I am not yet sold on Supercruise. Seems it could do with more automation so when you approach the destination, the ship automatically drops out of supercruise. The way it is now, you can either drop out too early and have to go back in, or you drop out too late and end up miles past the station. Frontier got round that by having an autopilot which, when combined with the 'Stardreamer system' (AKA speeding up time), worked perfectly. Where's the 'autopilot' in ED?

Whatever system is designed / refined / tweaked - someone needs to realise that watching a dot and number count down for minutes on end is LITERALLY minutes of my LIFE doing NOTHING. Cap's for emphasis.

 

[Sztripi]

Exactly what my friend said about Terraria. You see the point?


same as old Frontier (but better), same as old X (but much better). I even have friends there but since it's impossible to track our movement or cooperate on missions yup, I'm alone as well as I don't really understand pointless PvP in games (EVE excluded where PvP has a reason and results). But still good enough.

I wonder what you expected when you saw "new Elite game" I expected less then this. HUD is amazing. Their solution to travel is as good as MP allows. Their universe is the best. Some balancing and fixes needed don't make bad game for me.

I see your point. I just rely on what is done and it is done quite well. Much better then average AAA game with broken everything. And based on development process I don't have much reason to believe things like this won't be addressed. But it's still good work since KS. Can't you be just happy with that?

We agree on great many things, but...

I personally hate PvP so I never wanted it nor will I ever want it. The HUD is great the sounds are great. I am not interested in any form of multiplayer, so I could possibly not comment on that.

It is not the same as Frontier. Have you played it? It is worse. Why? There is nobody in the universe but you. I can see nobody from the cockpit. The NPC are not persistent. They are not even a backdrop. They are random, unlike in X series where the economy can seriously crash because they do not do their jobs for instance. The stupidity in the design decisions are compiling more and more as you play ruining immersion. Let me explain what I mean...

Ok lets see...

1. So I am sitting in the dock enjoying the view. But there is nobody the place is empty. No people anywhere. Than the station defense system starts to open fire on ships trying to land, destroying 5 ships before they stop trying to enter. Why is human life so meaningless? What about passengers? Evidently it is a crime punishable by death to board the wrong type of vessel.

2. Ok lets head into space. What is there. Nothing. Everything is the same everywhere. I have seen it all... Nothing to see, anywhere. So that's out also. No wonder in exploration. The background is the same everywhere. It is empty because of that.

3. How about warzones. Do they move? Are stations attacked? Do you see the loosing side getting more and more desperate? No it is always the same. Pew pew without any indication who is winning until suddenly the empire has won. What?

4. How about local events? None. What about the myriad of factions. The are all the same only the name differs.

5. Can I be generous in space by sparing my attackers? No.

6. Do pirates bail in case of impossible odds? Like 8 system authority ships vs 1 sidewinder. No. EVRYBODY has a death wish.

7. Empty cockpits.

I could go on and on, but if you check back a few posts somebody has written it down much better then I could ever. So that is the problem.

The way I see it will most likely end like this: It could have been a great game.

 

[thewzdoc]

We agree on great many things, but...

I personally hate PvP so I never wanted it nor will I ever want it. The HUD is great the sounds are great. I am not interested in any form of multiplayer, so I could possibly not comment on that.

It is not the same as Frontier. Have you played it? It is worse. Why? There is nobody in the universe but you. I can see nobody from the cockpit. The NPC are not persistent. They are not even a backdrop. They are random, unlike in X series where the economy can seriously crash because they do not do their jobs for instance. The stupidity in the design decisions are compiling more and more as you play ruining immersion. Let me explain what I mean...

Ok lets see...

1. So I am sitting in the dock enjoying the view. But there is nobody the place is empty. No people anywhere. Than the station defense system starts to open fire on ships trying to land, destroying 5 ships before they stop trying to enter. Why is human life so meaningless? What about passengers? Evidently it is a crime punishable by death to board the wrong type of vessel.

2. Ok lets head into space. What is there. Nothing. Everything is the same everywhere. I have seen it all... Nothing to see, anywhere. So that's out also. No wonder in exploration. The background is the same everywhere. It is empty because of that.

3. How about warzones. Do they move? Are stations attacked? Do you see the loosing side getting more and more desperate? No it is always the same. Pew pew without any indication who is winning until suddenly the empire has won. What?

4. How about local events? None. What about the myriad of factions. The are all the same only the name differs.

5. Can I be generous in space by sparing my attackers? No.

6. Do pirates bail in case of impossible odds? Like 8 system authority ships vs 1 sidewinder. No. EVRYBODY has a death wish.

7. Empty cockpits.

I could go on and on, but if you check back a few posts somebody has written it down much better then I could ever. So that is the problem.

The way I see it will most likely end like this: It could have been a great game.

Yeah, the universe is very flat at the moment. It's just a giant spreadsheet right now...

I've been testing since the first day of PB and I had and have high hopes for the game. It's not living up to the potential at this time. There are missions to run here or there but they are all pretty much the same. The NPC's don't seem to have a reason for doing anything. They seem like drone targets with random word generators.

I finally went to SOL....man the views are amazing! Loved flying around the planets and moons but....there were so few NPC's around. Why would the core of the federation be nearly empty of ships!?

I'm a Fanboi to the nth degree but even I am starting to see around the edges of my rose colored glasses.

 

[Sztripi]

Yeah, the universe is very flat at the moment. It's just a giant spreadsheet right now...

I've been testing since the first day of PB and I had and have high hopes for the game. It's not living up to the potential at this time. There are missions to run here or there but they are all pretty much the same. The NPC's don't seem to have a reason for doing anything. They seem like drone targets with random word generators.

I finally went to SOL....man the views are amazing! Loved flying around the planets and moons but....there were so few NPC's around. Why would the core of the federation be nearly empty of ships!?

I'm a Fanboi to the nth degree but even I am starting to see around the edges of my rose colored glasses.

I guess I post here not to bash the game but to hope beyond hope that it will be better. You should have heard me when I talked to my friends to paraphrase one of them: Do you have a life outside Elite? What will happen when the game will be released? You will die playing it... Now...

By the way are the moons of Mars there? When I was there the last time they where missing.

 

[JuJuVyez]

Elite is missing the human touch. The closest what we get from "humans" is space stations telling us they gonna blast us into spacedust if we loiter around. Or pirates wants our cargo. The game is very negative, when it comes to interactions. It's either hostile or nothing at all.

For me, this hits the nail squarely on the head. There are no human faces in the game. And NPC interaction feels bland. In Frontier, the Bulletin Board messages would trigger a kind of 'video' conversation with a character. You'd see their face. You could ask them why they were paying so much for the mission. You could demand half up front, full payment in advance or even more payment. This frequent interaction with characters with faces gave it something of a human touch. I'd love to see this in ED.

Think about it, even our own personas don't have faces. I'd love to have a character creation akin to EVE (or better), even if it's just for show. Maybe we'll get this when/if they add the ability to walk around inside space stations.

 

[Steve50]

Planetary Landing and Thargoids.


...oh and the promised Space Dredgers and Generation Ships.

 

[thewzdoc]

I guess I post here not to bash the game but to hope beyond hope that it will be better. You should have heard me when I talked to my friends to paraphrase one of them: Do you have a life outside Elite? What will happen when the game will be released? You will die playing it... Now...

By the way are the moons of Mars there? When I was there the last time they where missing.

I'll look again but I didn't see them on the scans. I was "wowing and coohing" over the beauty of Mars....it's so freaking awesome!

I was also very dissipointed in the Lincoln station....almost no upgrades there (some basics is all). You would think that one of the main stations orbiting Earth would have the best the federation has to offer....but no. Maybe there supplies were low but as I said earlier there are almost no ships around so no idea who's buying things.

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Planetary Landing and Thargoids.


...oh and the promised Space Dredgers and Generation Ships.

Well....I'll still hope for that....

I'm looking forward to getting Salvage in the game...that'll open up a lot of mechanics in game.

 

[Roybe]

I think the immersion in the game is there, for those that want the precedent's feel. What everyone else is waiting for? The Background Simulation to work flawlessly AND for multiplayer grouping to work in a more functional way.

The Background Simulation, and the player manipulation of it, IS the game. The way large groups interact with factions, and how the playerbase will react to these manipulations within the galaxy, will be the part of the game that shifts, creates, and delineates, the ecosystems that the players will create, follow, and inhabit.