If this game doesnt have the Elite/Frontier magic why not - what does it need?

[Perjoss]

Agreed with everything you said.
Elite is missing the human touch. The closest what we get from "humans" is space stations telling us they gonna blast us into spacedust if we loiter around. Or pirates wants our cargo. The game is very negative, when it comes to interactions. It's either hostile or nothing at all.

Here is another game from a decade ago. This is how to do make the player feel like they are being involved with something. This one is still my all time favorites, the beginning is better than many space sims I can remember.

[video=youtube_share;7DtwfHyHCoE]http://youtu.be/7DtwfHyHCoE[/video]

I think I agree with you, I do miss the faces we used to get in Elite 2 when docked, they were just images but better than nothing, in that sense ED has kind of taken a step back. I wonder how much work it would be to add a decent amount of random faces to go with the bulletin board messages, or a small video feed of the traffic controllers giving or denying you permission to land and take off.

edit: I think it would add a ton of flavour too if the authority ships had voice comms rather than just text, although they would have to record quite a lot of alternate dialog so that it would not get too repetitive.

 

[Bambi]

I think the immersion in the game is there, for those that want the precedent's feel. What everyone else is waiting for? The Background Simulation to work flawlessly AND for multiplayer grouping to work in a more functional way.

The Background Simulation, and the player manipulation of it, IS the game. The way large groups interact with factions, and how the playerbase will react to these manipulations within the galaxy, will be the part of the game that shifts, creates, and delineates, the ecosystems that the players will create, follow, and inhabit.

You said it, the simulation is the game.
So solo players are just left out in the dirt unless they want to participate in the hivemind? Which is most of the veteran playerbase who liked the single player space sims of the past? Or indeed, most of anyone who likes to strike it out as a lone wolf regardless of whether they play open or not. A game for the crowd is a game for nobody. Those who don't participate get nothing.

 

[Roybe]

You said it, the simulation is the game.
So solo players are just left out in the dirt unless they want to participate in the hivemind? Which is most of the veteran playerbase who liked the single player space sims of the past? Or indeed, most of anyone who likes to strike it out as a lone wolf regardless of whether they play open or not. A game for the crowd is a game for nobody. Those who don't participate get nothing.

You aren't fully grasping the idea of the background Simulation...solo players and private groups players actions DO affect the game...just as much as any single players actions do. You can move faction in a system with a small population...one person has done this already. If you want to help a movement go fight for that movement and your actions will aggregate with the whole. This game isn't about being an elephant doing great things, it's about ants coming together to do great things, including the consumption of an elephant!

What you are also missing out on is the idea that lone wolves still need things to do...and the activity surrounding these bigger movements allow for ecosystems for all players to play in.

 

[deMangler]

The magic of the original for me was that it had just enough to spark my imagination but not too much, to interfere with my imagined world with lots of fluff. I could basically make it up without having to fight somebody elses version of what was "supposed" to be happening.
ED almost does this. The main thing is for it not to push the extra content down my throat and to be consistent. It manages to do this.
What ED needs for me for it to be as magical as the original is for it to be a challenging diverse galaxy. At the moment lawless systems are about as safe as corporate states. There is no danger anywhere really.
I loved having to trade for days to get my militaries so I could go to an anarchy and kill smugglers and take their drugs. Now I don't need militaries to do that I can do it in a starting ship.
Why bother?
Still - enjoying it loads for what it is though.

 

[Rampant]

Too much time in supercruise and watching fancy mechanics in a space station is an issue to me. In Elite, you'd just hit the jump button a few times and be in orbit. Now we can have an x (or xx!!) minute session just watching a bright dot and a number counting down. Hitting launch and sitting watching the same machinery moving over and over and over... Nice animations. Double up the speeds. Something. ANYTHING. Make supercruise speed up and slow down faster to spend less time just watching a dot...

.
The blame for this, or "reason" for this, if you want to be more sympathetic and understanding, is that in a tied up, synchronised *multiplayer* environment, another player must be able to see your ship seamlessly transfer from one place to another, in synchronised time...
.
I place the blame for the weirdness embedded in game entirely on the notion that it was designed as a multiplayer game.
.
Elite, for me, will always be a single player game, but to play E: D, I must tolerate this violation of my true expectations.
.
Cheerz

 

[Tradesman]

I suppose Elite dangerous is not for everyone.

 

[Stench]

.
The blame for this, or "reason" for this, if you want to be more sympathetic and understanding, is that in a tied up, synchronised *multiplayer* environment, another player must be able to see your ship seamlessly transfer from one place to another, in synchronised time...
.
I place the blame for the weirdness embedded in game entirely on the notion that it was designed as a multiplayer game.
.
Elite, for me, will always be a single player game, but to play E: D, I must tolerate this violation of my true expectations.
.
Cheerz

I understand why we cannot have the jump mechanism or time dilation - I just do not understand why we have to spend so long doing these things. Speed up my acceleration and deceleration rates. Halve the journey times between places.

That is the huge turn off for me right now, I am spending most of my 'play' time just looking at numbers counting down.

 

[nexxo]

Agreed with everything you said.
Elite is missing the human touch. The closest what we get from "humans" is space stations telling us they gonna blast us into spacedust if we loiter around. Or pirates wants our cargo. The game is very negative, when it comes to interactions. It's either hostile or nothing at all.

Here is another game from a decade ago. This is how to do make the player feel like they are being involved with something. This one is still my all time favorites, the beginning is better than many space sims I can remember.

[video=youtube_share;7DtwfHyHCoE]http://youtu.be/7DtwfHyHCoE[/video]

That's all very nice, but like with ED you'll find the shine wear off a bit when toy hear exactly the same voices say exactly the same lines over and over... and over. It is difficult to create dynamic and varied dialogue spoken in a realistic human voice.

 

[Miimis Maks]

I want this
[video=youtube;M967oR8-Sng]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M967oR8-Sng[/video]

 

[Leermeister]

That's all very nice, but like with ED you'll find the shine wear off a bit when toy hear exactly the same voices say exactly the same lines over and over... and over. It is difficult to create dynamic and varied dialogue spoken in a realistic human voice.

[video=youtube;NODc1lXn0ak]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NODc1lXn0ak[/video]

why not just make it like freelancer where freighters and such fly around space talking about where their actually going what their hauling you can hear chatter of police scanning people and such, such things add a huge amount of immersion and are 100s of times better then nothing at all , like in ED. These are old games elite is brand new and has alot less.

 

[Dethblight]

My thinking is that some people are having a hard time with the game because it's TOO realistic. The story is there, it's up to you to interact with it or not. Let's compare a slave revolt in this game with a real life analogue. Say you're sitting at home watching TV, and the news comes on telling you about a rebellion in... let's say Switzerland. You have a few options. You can go to Switzerland and fight for either side, you can go and run supplies, you can go and provide relief, or you can stay at home, do your normal thing, and watch it all unfold on the news. Maybe you want to get involved directly, but you can't afford to go there. Maybe you have better things to do. Maybe you just aren't motivated enough one way or the other about the conflict. Perhaps you'll make a fortune in the arms market, legally or otherwise.

Now let's say you're docked at Aulin or someplace, and you see a story about a revolt of some sort on galnet. You can fly there and fight for either side, you can run supplies, you can engage in some profiteering, etc. etc., or you can do your normal thing and watch it unfold on galnet.

Now I understand why this could upset some people. They want the full fantasy treatment where they are thrust into a grand story and are free from the mundane aspects of everyday life. But to my understanding, ED has never claimed or tried to be anything other than it is. A sandbox. A game with TRUE freedom to do whatever you want. But I think that some of the more mundane things in the game, the routine, the inability to participate due to funds, and so forth are necessary in order to give us that level of freedom AND realism. Sure, they could make it so that anytime you want to participate in that far away revolt you can. Maybe they loan you a ship, or transport you in the blink of an eye. But then you lose that aspect of realism. That sense that this is an actual universe. Then it's just another video game.

I think Frontier hit the nail on the head... for the type of game they set out to make. I personally love it. When I play I get a sense of "this is real life, just in the future and I'm a space pilot". But I also get why that doesn't appeal to everyone. People tend not to want RealLife 2.0 when they play games.

 

[Susimetsa]

It does have that magic and so much more.

Next thread...

This!

I cannot see how this is any worse than FFE that I played for hours on end. There are certainly things that I miss: multiple newspapers with their own angle on news stories and planetary landings, but I think both of those are pretty much on the "upcoming" list, so I am not worried at all.

 

[Leermeister]

My thinking is that some people are having a hard time with the game because it's TOO realistic. The story is there, it's up to you to interact with it or not. Let's compare a slave revolt in this game with a real life analogue. Say you're sitting at home watching TV, and the news comes on telling you about a rebellion in... let's say Switzerland. You have a few options. You can go to Switzerland and fight for either side, you can go and run supplies, you can go and provide relief, or you can stay at home, do your normal thing, and watch it all unfold on the news. Maybe you want to get involved directly, but you can't afford to go there. Maybe you have better things to do. Maybe you just aren't motivated enough one way or the other about the conflict. Perhaps you'll make a fortune in the arms market, legally or otherwise.

Now let's say you're docked at Aulin or someplace, and you see a story about a revolt of some sort on galnet. You can fly there and fight for either side, you can run supplies, you can engage in some profiteering, etc. etc., or you can do your normal thing and watch it unfold on galnet.

Now I understand why this could upset some people. They want the full fantasy treatment where they are thrust into a grand story and are free from the mundane aspects of everyday life. But to my understanding, ED has never claimed or tried to be anything other than it is. A sandbox. A game with TRUE freedom to do whatever you want. But I think that some of the more mundane things in the game, the routine, the inability to participate due to funds, and so forth are necessary in order to give us that level of freedom AND realism. Sure, they could make it so that anytime you want to participate in that far away revolt you can. Maybe they loan you a ship, or transport you in the blink of an eye. But then you lose that aspect of realism. That sense that this is an actual universe. Then it's just another video game.

I think Frontier hit the nail on the head... for the type of game they set out to make. I personally love it. When I play I get a sense of "this is real life, just in the future and I'm a space pilot". But I also get why that doesn't appeal to everyone. People tend not to want RealLife 2.0 when they play games.

Can i own a factory? Can i get out of my ship and interact with other humans? Can i do anything that i cannot do from the original games in this game? You can do whatever you want in this sandbox as you call it; as long as it consists of the very few things you can do in this game. Other then prices may change a bit more on the lifeless systems i fail to see how you can do anything you want other then visit lifeless systems and bases or fight dull ai or deliver a list of numbers to add to another list of numbers. I could do that in the old games i dont see whats so great about it. My RL visit to a RL gas station is more interesting then any adventure in elite. Yeah ED would be like RL if RL consisted of you never being able to leave your car and your car was in a lifeless desert, and the only thing your tablet tuned into was craigslist.

Like i say This game is just as much fun to play as the original, the original was fun in the 80s, its 2015 ive seen allot more realistic games and things done better then what ED has done which is very basic.

 

[Dethblight]

Can i own a factory? Can i get out of my ship and interact with other humans? Can i do anything that i cannot do from the original games in this game? You can do whatever you want in this sandbox as you call it; as long as it consists of the very few things you can do in this game. Other then prices may change a bit more on the lifeless systems i fail to see how you can do anything you want other then visit lifeless systems and bases or fight dull ai or deliver a list of numbers to add to another list of numbers. I could do that in the old games i dont see whats so great about it. My RL visit to a RL gas station is more interesting then any adventure in elite. Yeah ED would be like RL if RL consisted of you never being able to leave your car and your car was in a lifeless desert, and the only thing your tablet tuned into was craigslist.

Like i say This game is just as much fun to play as the original, the original was fun in the 80s, its 2015 ive seen allot more realistic games and things done better then what ED has done which is very basic.

/shrug So go hang out at gas stations then, if that's your thing. I believe you misunderstood my point a bit. I'm not saying that you can do absolutely anything. There will always be things you can't do within the confines of a video game. I'm saying that the aspects that HAVE been implemented have that feeling of "real life in the future". No, you can't own factories or interact with other humans. Maybe that will be implemented in the future, maybe not. I hope it is! But what they've done so far has taken a tremendous amount of work, and adding those other things will take more. My point was in response to people who complain about the lack of story, not people who complain about lack of features. Yes, there are many features that can be found in other games and/or RL that are absent. I'm not debating that at all. But for the features that ARE in place, it takes a hands-off, RL approach. The story is out there, it's up to you if/ how you interact with it.

 

[Perjoss]

why not just make it like freelancer where freighters and such fly around space talking about where their actually going what their hauling you can hear chatter of police scanning people and such, such things add a huge amount of immersion and are 100s of times better then nothing at all , like in ED. These are old games elite is brand new and has alot less.

Ah Freelancer, one of my all time favourite games, I do wish they would give it a reboot.

 

[Leermeister]

Ah Freelancer, one of my all time favourite games, I do wish they would give it a reboot.

they pretty much are with star citizen which is pretty much what Freelancer should have been.

 

[erfahrung]

So many people just wants this game dead. Hope it's not from jealousy of SC never achieved (or ever achieve) in the given time. It's enough to be a good Elite game already. With no reason to believe it won't improve in time. David Braben has his vision and unlike others is actually able to make it real with given resources.

How about this vision: Not enough people keep buying it so running the servers wont be profitable within a few months meaning they shut down the servers altogether. Then we will be playing F and FE again.

 

[Zallibik]

There's a few things.
One is that Frontier was genuinely incredible for its era. Even from the demo, seeing that courier flying down from space, to a spaceport, past stations and cruisers.. the galaxy with millions of stars, being able to watch moon rise or a gas giant set from one of its moons.. unbelievable in the early 90s.

E : D is fantastic in many regards, but it is not so far removed from its peers to have that same wow factor today (in Oculus Rift it gets the closest).

Then there's the lack of mystery. In many ways that can be attributed to the internet, and to the open development from Kickstarter model - so that everyone knows what's out there without having to go and see it. In Frontier I always had that feeling that there could be things out there that I just hadn't found. It even did - I thought I'd seen it all then I found there were missions to spy on planetary bases. Thought I'd seen it all again then found I could nuke them.. etc. But it's not only the mystery factor - there really is lack of sufficient diversity and genuinely rare or unique stuff. While the detail of things has increased dramatically (but only on par with other games), the diversity hasn't, and that's important in a procedural game.

There are some small details which better helped suspension of disbelief in Frontier. For example, assassination missions gave you a target, a time and a place. They would be there.. you could even go there early and watch them arrive in open planet surface ports. You could follow them when they left, etc. It gave the impression of a living universe with real people who moved around. Now, you get a mission and you randomly stop at points of interest, seeing a handful of people until miraculously you happen across the exact person you needed. It makes it feel much more like an MMO instance than a living universe.

Some of the important things that will help a lot are not finished or fleshed out yet - like the dynamic galaxy and the news feed. They are quite flat and do not pull in enough interesting information to make it seem like life is really going on around you. I fully expect this to improve.

excellent post, he is correct 100% correct.

 

[Derath]

I feel compelled to add my support to the lack of mystery group, I've already enjoyed the game immensely so i'm not suggesting i'm disappointed, but I feel the information being prevalent everywhere has hurt the feeling of a great universe to explore.

I feel like they missed a trick not adding a whole host of new equipment/ships/customisation on release that would have really wowed everybody, i wanted to explore and find this new stuff, but instead I'd seen every ship that exists for sale within 4 stations. Oh and just a little more foresight about the weirder roles, mining is currently in my view unplayable i'm a little sad about that.

 

[Antmax]

I agree that the internet and youtube take away some of the mystery. Many people will have seen much of the game before they bought it. It's all out there in thousands of videos. People show all the cool stuff they find and see, so you can see much of it without ever even playing the game.