If you want New Players... A rant from a frustrated player.
- Thread starter LVmonkey
- Start date
You are right that the game has a steep learning curve. There's plenty of things to pay attention to
and really many buttons. You are completely right there. So yes, starting out can be frustrating.
But it also means you can master the ship. Once you have things down, it feels very rewarding to be able to do things fast and efficient. It contributes a lot to the ship feeling more like a simulator and less like an arcade game.
That being said, perhaps you should also do what i at the start did: i stuck small labels next to the buttons and switches on my joystick for the first time of playing. If i needed a function, i didn't have to check any menu or help page, but was able to directly see on my jostick and throttle, which switch i would need to use for this. Muscle memory quickly took over from that, but for the first few weeks this helped me a lot. Maybe it'd also be a thing for you.
On the rest of what you wrote: yes, the game urgently needs to give more support to the new player. Luckily FD is well aware of that. You claim that the last patch was all quality of life for the older players. I think you should check out the patch notes again. The last patch included a locked off area for new players, along with specially designed missions, more info on activities in game, etc. (Just check all the buttons we now have in the UI, which take you to the codex and the help pages there. A veteran player knows all these things, he uses the links once out of curiosity, to see what they do, then forgets about them. The new player can use it to quickly get information. ) We also got things like the new docking computer and supercruise assist and they now come pre-installed in all small ships. Thus in those ships which new players most likely use. The new docking computer can also help with launching and supercruise assist, while being slower than when an experienced player uses supercruise, helps a lot in making people see how they could do things, without repeatedly overshooting the target and getting too frustrated. They are of no interest for the experienced player, but they provide helping hands to the new player. (Also, tutorials and training missions were upgraded a bit and made more accessible. But i know that most players still don't touch those. Some would rather quit a game a minute after buying it than ever doing a tutorial. )
Despite plenty of thingss were made for the new player, they don't cover all the bases yet. There's still plenty to do. But it seems like FD finally acknowledged the problem and decided to act. Supposedly the next patch also aims at improving the new players experience. We have to see what they come up with next. The last patch took some steps in the right direction, but the game can need a lot more. I am hoping for a pack of context sensitive help. It's not easy to detect when a player struggles and provide good feedback, without also sometimes seeming patronizing. Thus it's not easy to do, but if done well, it would improve things for the new player a lot.
We have to see what we will get. But unlike many other things reported, this is something where FD has shown that they are aware of the problem and are working to improve upon.
and really many buttons. You are completely right there. So yes, starting out can be frustrating.
But it also means you can master the ship. Once you have things down, it feels very rewarding to be able to do things fast and efficient. It contributes a lot to the ship feeling more like a simulator and less like an arcade game.
That being said, perhaps you should also do what i at the start did: i stuck small labels next to the buttons and switches on my joystick for the first time of playing. If i needed a function, i didn't have to check any menu or help page, but was able to directly see on my jostick and throttle, which switch i would need to use for this. Muscle memory quickly took over from that, but for the first few weeks this helped me a lot. Maybe it'd also be a thing for you.
On the rest of what you wrote: yes, the game urgently needs to give more support to the new player. Luckily FD is well aware of that. You claim that the last patch was all quality of life for the older players. I think you should check out the patch notes again. The last patch included a locked off area for new players, along with specially designed missions, more info on activities in game, etc. (Just check all the buttons we now have in the UI, which take you to the codex and the help pages there. A veteran player knows all these things, he uses the links once out of curiosity, to see what they do, then forgets about them. The new player can use it to quickly get information. ) We also got things like the new docking computer and supercruise assist and they now come pre-installed in all small ships. Thus in those ships which new players most likely use. The new docking computer can also help with launching and supercruise assist, while being slower than when an experienced player uses supercruise, helps a lot in making people see how they could do things, without repeatedly overshooting the target and getting too frustrated. They are of no interest for the experienced player, but they provide helping hands to the new player. (Also, tutorials and training missions were upgraded a bit and made more accessible. But i know that most players still don't touch those. Some would rather quit a game a minute after buying it than ever doing a tutorial. )
Despite plenty of thingss were made for the new player, they don't cover all the bases yet. There's still plenty to do. But it seems like FD finally acknowledged the problem and decided to act. Supposedly the next patch also aims at improving the new players experience. We have to see what they come up with next. The last patch took some steps in the right direction, but the game can need a lot more. I am hoping for a pack of context sensitive help. It's not easy to detect when a player struggles and provide good feedback, without also sometimes seeming patronizing. Thus it's not easy to do, but if done well, it would improve things for the new player a lot.
We have to see what we will get. But unlike many other things reported, this is something where FD has shown that they are aware of the problem and are working to improve upon.
For most controllers the predefined setups are indeed fine. When you have a HOTAS (like mentioned in the first posting), things look a bit different here. By now there are profiles for a number of them, but still not for all. And people who have HOTAS often combine it with different hardware.
So if the OP didn't buy one of the few HOTAS systems where the game has predefined profiles for, some setting up is in order. (And i have to admit, even years after launch, i sometimes do a bit of finetuning still. )
Sure, but if someone decides to use custom hardware then surely they can expect to have to create custom setups, and I hardly see this as an legitimate complaint for new players - Hotas is too hard to set up? - so learn on a simpler setup, then once you have some knowledge about what is actually needed, switch to the most complicated control setup available. Or, decide to use a complicated hardware setup, then whinge that the controls are hard to set up. The simple fact is, there is a lot of different things that we can do with our ships and this really does require a lot of different key/button inputs, and when they add new features... there's going to be a need for new inputs.
Depends. I mean, FD is working on it. For my HOTAS there's a pre-defined setup by now. From what i gathered it's not perfect, but it works. From what i gathered, DCS supposedly has a great setup for my HOTAS. (Second hand info, i don't play that one. )
In contrast, when i tried SC in the free week recently, the setup was absolutely unuseable. Considering that my interest already was limited, performance on my machine wasn't great, etc. this was the final straw that i decided not to invest time there to set up my HOTAS.
So yea... shame on me, that i didn't spend all the time there? But if it's like that, then FD is also doing it wrong by adding profiles for some HOTAS systems?
I rather think they should continue the way they apparently already go: make inventory of what HOTAS systems are generally used in the game. Buy one of each which has at least a certain number in use. Build a configuration for it and provide it to all players.
So yes, FD seems to be already doing that, although a bit slow. My posting was just to explain that: while FD slowly keeps adding profiles for different HOTAS systems, there's still plenty of them in use which we don't have profiles for. So the whole "got a controller, but getting it to work is plenty of work" is not an uncommon experience and even if people get things in order, it's still not the best start for a new game.
There is definetely a pretty good preset for the X52, I use it all the time (with some minor adjustments).
After over 300 hours in game I would have thought that it would take a remarkable lack of nous to not be able to handle keybinds etc.
Sounds to me more like the OP came back and got frustrated so had a good old whine. I hope they feel better now.
Oh dear - I wonder just how many thousands of new players have gone through the tutorials. Seriously, take a chill pill OP.
Sounds to me more like the OP came back and got frustrated so had a good old whine. I hope they feel better now.
Oh dear - I wonder just how many thousands of new players have gone through the tutorials. Seriously, take a chill pill OP.
I'm not opposed to making the game "more game", but please don't remove the fiddly for those of us who like it. I'm not talking about this stupid "Analysis vs. Combat Mode" crap, rather I'm talking about the ability to map EVERYTHING exactly like I want to on my DS4. I recently bought Everspace, a "game-like" game, and I couldn't play it because the controls were way too limiting! For example, I have to chose between yaw and roll, I can't have both!?! Yet I'm forced to have lateral sideways thrust (called strafe in that game) and am not allowed to swap that out with yaw. Thrusters and fire buttons are also hard-coded, so I'm shooting when I want to thrust, I can't fly right, so I just put the game away after about 10 minutes.
I personally don't mind "Double Plus Flight Assist" and docking computers and everything else for those who need it. But don't take away my customized 6DoF DS4 configuration. It's possible for BOTH to coexist in ED.
In this regard, I am in total agreement. The tutorials are pretty horrible.
I have only been playing ~3 months and when I was brand new my only real gripe was just how bad the tutorial videos were. I resorted to watching user videos on youtube that did a MUCH better job of explaining things (Obsidian Ant and Chaosswulf get a shout out for having some of the best, at least for me). The tutorial videos, in comparison, glossed over too many things that weren't blatantly obvious (at least to me) and went into far too much detail on things which were completely obvious and hardly needed explanation, over-complicating them. So..yah, I can agree with the above statement.
I only bind what I need to bind. There is plenty that can be left and never looked at again.
Thats a big logic jump there. Seems the main issue is binding all the keys which isn't necessary and a control bug with the FSS. Nice try though.
Sure, always room for improvement. Just pointing out most people somehow don't seem to have major difficulties with them, except the advanced combat one, although i heard they had toned that one down.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
There aren't enough functions to bind! I've got the X56 Rhino and its got a duel throttle. It'd be awesome to split my main thrusters into two groups. It also has 5 rotaries, mapped to radar range, super-cruise and hyperspace, skip and previous on Galnet, and another for FSS tuning... That leaves 1 more that does nothing, which saddens me to no end.
I'm actually surprised nobody's offered the most obvious solution to the key binding issue. Yes, there are a lot of things that need binding, but why do you need to remember what keys are for what? I have the X52 pro HOTAS and the only buttons I use are for firing weapons, navigating menus & locking on to my targets and destinations. For everything else, I use Voice Attack. All you have to do is remember what voice commands you assigned and that's it. I have no clue what keyboard buttons do what because I talk to the game instead. As for the rest of the game, it's a learning curve that you either can or cannot get past. Tools can simplify the game, but the individual has to figure out how to play.
Voice Attack is not entirely reliable, for some it might work perfectly but for others it is next to useless. The problem is fundamentally that on at least some versions of windows the Voice Recognition engine is absolute pants even after training. The only answer to that is to find a voice recognition engine that both works well for you and that Voice Attack can use. With Windows 10 it seems Microsoft's own rubbish voice recognition solution or bust.
Not to mention that using any kind of voice recognition requires a person to both have and use a microphone.
Not everyone has one and not everyone who does have one wants to use it while playing a video game. Mine is on a headset, for example, which includes headphones as well as the microphone. I do not WANT to use the headset while playing games. My 5.1 positional audio speaker setup is far superior and I find headsets uncomfortable after prolonged use (I have a really big head...they don't make them sized for me).
Web cams and VR headsets typically have microphones built-in, as do most laptops. Ultimately though, a reasonable desktop microphone can be acquired for less cost than most game controllers.
Stand alone microphones as well as the ones in Web Cam work horribly for voice recognition if you also have other ambient audio (music + the game) piping through a 5.1 surround sound speaker system around them. I have tried them. Only way around the problem is to have all audio go low volume while the Mic is enabled, which ruins immersion as well as just gets generally annoying to listen to.
VR headsets suffer from the same "big head" problem as headsets. Too many compromises have to be made (for me) to ever consider any kind of voice control in a game as a positive thing.
I also have a real beef with how many player organizations (clans, guilds, etc) in online games want me to use Discord as well, for the same reason. I'm willing to listen in, but don't expect me to use a mic while playing a game, it ruins the whole experience for me due to aforementioned issues.
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The OP is all about the high barrier or entry to this game. The whole HOTAS part of this thread started on how much effort it is to set up a HOTAS if it's not one of those where the game brings along predefined profiles. (And to some part, that existing profiles are not always that great. )
And your answer to that is to suggest a third party solution, which again requires more time invested to configure it properly? Yes, it is powerful, but you need to already know the game well enough to really make good use of it. Nothing for the completely new player.