IGN's 25 PC Games to Play in 2014 - No ED?

[Juniper]

What is not MMO about ED?

Not read all the replies since this reply to my post, so I'll just say why I think it's not an MMO.

1) 32 players in any game session at once. Not really "massively multiplayer" now is it?

2) You can play it offline, which every proper MMO I've played doesn't allow.

3) No player persistence. You can't leave something somewhere and expect it to be picked up or even seen by another player.

Calling Elite: Dangerous "an MMO" is like calling Justin Bieber "a musician".

 

[tooterfish]

Not read all the replies since this reply to my post, so I'll just say why I think it's not an MMO.

1) 32 players in any game session at once. Not really "massively multiplayer" now is it?

The game isn't session based, it's 32 players in an instance at once.

Everyone plays in the same "session". Instances are created seamlessly and on the fly from all possible players in the area.

2) You can play it offline, which every proper MMO I've played doesn't allow.

This is irrelevant, the two modes are mutually exclusive.

It can be played offline or as an MMO.

3) No player persistence. You can't leave something somewhere and expect it to be picked up or even seen by another player.

This is a nitpick. There are many other MMOs that don't offer this kind of persistence either, even server based ones... because it's really expensive.

Calling Elite: Dangerous "an MMO" is like calling Justin Bieber "a musician".

It's Massively Multiplayer and it's Online... it's an MMO!

 

[Associat0r]

Not read all the replies since this reply to my post, so I'll just say why I think it's not an MMO.

1) 32 players in any game session at once. Not really "massively multiplayer" now is it?

How many players are there in instances in a typical MMO and don't forget that ED's instances are roaming instances definend by a bubble around you, decoupled from locations.

2) You can play it offline, which every proper MMO I've played doesn't allow.

I already said that Age of Conan even hyped this feature pre-release.
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=259121#post259121
Also for every MMO you could theoretically create a private server and play it offline.
MMO is a subset of ED's playing modes.

3) No player persistence. You can't leave something somewhere and expect it to be picked up or even seen by another player.

There is player persistance, our space ships with equipment are persisted, if we destroy a space station, others will see the station destroyed, if we influence the economy others will see the same change, the degree of persistence is a spectrum and each game designer decides what makes sense to persist for the type of game.

Calling Elite: Dangerous "an MMO" is like calling Justin Bieber "a musician

Justin Bieber is a singer making music with his voice and is therefore a musician.

 

[Juniper]

The game isn't session based, it's 32 players in an instance at once.

Session / instance can be interchangeable expressions for this purpose. An example that was explained to me by Mike in the groups thread on the DDF is... say I jump into a system, and Fred is at the station. Unless I am in the same session / instance as Fred, I do not even know of Fred's existence in the game. Now, if Fred is in my alliance or group, the matchmaking system will attempt to put us in the same session instance, but that's by no means guaranteed.

This is irrelevant, the two modes are mutually exclusive.

No it's not. I can play single player, or multi player, with a few people, or hundreds of people. With the same character. I choose how much multiplayer I want - it's not all or nothing like a traditional MMO. The only exclusivity is online / offline, not how multiplayer it is.

This is a nitpick. There are many other MMOs that don't offer this kind of persistence either, even server based ones... because it's really expensive.

Name one MMO where I can drop an axe in a location, and the next player that comes along doesn't see that axe?

It's Massively Multiplayer and it's Online... it's an MMO!

No, it can be multiplayer and online - how "massive" you want is entirely your own individual choice.

If the game was marketed as an MMO (which is what this thread seems to be advocating) then that would inevitably lead to confusion, bad taste, and bad reputation for Frontier. There are elements of MMO-like functionality within E: D, but it's too much of a stretch to call it an MMO in the way people usually think of these things.

 

[Mars]

Does it really matter to anyone if someone else defines it as an MMO or not?

Calling Elite: Dangerous "an MMO" is like calling Justin Bieber "a musician".

A good analogy, I would say no, but it really doesn't bother me that a lot of people think he is:

 

[Juniper]

Justin Bieber is a singer making music with his voice and is therefore a musician.

My point is that "technically" you are correct, and there are similarities, but he is no more a "musician" than E: D is an MMO. If you don't understand the metaphor, I cannot help you.

 

[Associat0r]

My point is that "technically" you are correct, and there are similarities, but he is no more a "musician" than E: D is an MMO. If you don't understand the metaphor, I cannot help you.

Justin Bieber seems to be quite a good singer from what I heard, so I don't really understand it.

 

[Juniper]

Does it really matter to anyone if someone else defines it as an MMO or not?

Probably not, but from a marketing perspective it certainly does - especially if the purpose of the marketing is to get people to like (as opposed to simply buy and then moan about on forums) your game.

Sell it as it is, not how you would like it to be.

 

[tooterfish]

Name one MMO where I can drop an axe in a location, and the next player that comes along doesn't see that axe?

World of Warcraft, because you can't drop items at all. Many other themepark MMOs are the same.

In fact I'll go one further. In most MMOs there's no persistence at all, the player's actions are totally irrelevant... because everything resets. Little Jimmy's dog gets stuck back down the well, that pesky hunter still needs his 10 bear asses, and the big bad boss never ever stays dead.

Elite: Dangerous has more persistence than most other MMOs.

No, it can be multiplayer and online - how "massive" you want is entirely your own individual choice.

You're actually saying it is massive here, you realise that?

Just because a player can choose not to play it that way doesn't invalidate the argument.

 

[Valkyrie]

Not read all the replies since this reply to my post, so I'll just say why I think it's not an MMO.

1) 32 players in any game session at once. Not really "massively multiplayer" now is it?

2) You can play it offline, which every proper MMO I've played doesn't allow.

3) No player persistence. You can't leave something somewhere and expect it to be picked up or even seen by another player.

Calling Elite: Dangerous "an MMO" is like calling Justin Bieber "a musician".

For comparison, World of Warcraft started out with 40 player raids and they were once considered quite large. Now days they are 10, 25 at most for a session. Battlegrounds are 20~30 people per session.

As for persistence, all the players are persistent as well as the effect their actions have on a solar system. The inability to leave an object within a solar system that is not integral to gameplay is more a technical limitation and has nothing at all to do with a lack of persistent universe.

And for the record, Justin Bieber is a musician, despite peoples negative consensus regarding his music or personal life, sadly sprawled across western media.

 

[Juniper]

Justin Bieber seems to be quite a good singer from what I heard, so I don't really understand it.

Maybe this might help...

 

[Juniper]

World of Warcraft, because you can't drop items at all. Many other themepark MMOs are the same.

In fact I'll go one further. In most MMOs there's no persistence at all, the player's actions are totally irrelevant... because everything resets. Little Jimmy's dog gets stuck back down the well, that pesky hunter still needs his 10 bear asses, and the big bad boss never ever stays dead.

Elite: Dangerous has more persistence than most other MMOs.

Not played WoW, but from what you're saying you're talking about instanced dungeons here, yes? Not the same thing as what I'm talking about. Sessions = instances in E: D.

Also - I said where I can drop an axe. In E: D for instance, I can eject cargo cannisters. They are invisible to players that are not in my instance, and likely destroyed when I leave it.

You're actually saying it is massive here, you realise that?

Just because a player can choose not to play it that way doesn't invalidate the argument.

Except you don't see anyone that is not in your instance. At all. At most, you are playing with 32 people (including yourself) at any given time. Even in the "All Player" group, it is not massive.

 

[Chock]

Nothing wrong with creating a bit of PR hype, but to be honest I think when ED comes out, it will garner lots of attention anyway, and that's when you really want it to be getting attention, i.e. when people can actually buy the thing.

Re: Justin Bieber comment about him not being a musician. I play a lot of instruments, write my own songs and play live in boozers and stuff, so I consider myself a musician, and whilst I don't like the poppy teen-fodder claptrap that Bieber does, there is no reason for me to get snobby about it or hate what he does, since it isn't meant for me. We could say that Bieber is more of a marketing product than a musician, and that would probably be fair comment, but that doesn't mean he ain't a musician at all, particularly if you know the story of how he got signed, which was that his videos on youtube back in 2007 were spotted by a few talent scouts. Here is one of those vids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28VmUxTDU5Q

You'll note he is playing the guitar accompanying himself, alright it's only open chords on a dreadnought, so he's not exactly Keith Richards blasting out Start Me Up, but it is undeniably music that he is making.

 

[Associat0r]

Maybe this might help...

You don't need to write music to be considered a musician.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

ED online by it's nature is pure MMO game. Now, it allows you to change your matchmaking roughly, but that's about it. It's massive, it's multiplayer, and it's online.

Argument about dynamic instances is laughable - whole planets in Old Republic sometimes don't have even 30 players. Also fact there will be independent NPCs buzzing around should tell something.

 

[tooterfish]

Not played WoW, but from what you're saying you're talking about instanced dungeons here, yes? Not the same thing as what I'm talking about. Sessions = instances in E: D.

No, I'm talking about the entire game. Nothing anywhere persists. No. Thing... Kill a million orcs in the open world, five minutes later they're all back as if nothing happened.

You're pulling away from your original point about the persistence of dropped items anyway. There is no persistence of dropped items in WoW because you can't drop items anywhere. To transfer items you need to use the trade interface (or hack it by sticking them in a body, but see above: five minutes later it's gone... that's not persistence).

By your own definition, the most successful (I believe) MMO of all time... isn't an MMO! Neither are many other MMOs out there.

Except you don't see anyone that is not in your instance. At all. At most, you are playing with 32 people (including yourself) at any given time. Even in the "All Player" group, it is not massive.

Again, many other MMOs implement this kind of behaviour, even in their open worlds (not just in "instances"). They'll use overflow instances, or queues... because even having hundreds (never mind thousands) of players in the same place just makes their servers fall over and die.

The only one I can think of that doesn't is EvE, and... well, good luck having twitch based combat in EvE that's all I can say.

Edit: actually, thinking on, I think even EvE limits the amount of players in a given area. It numbers in the thousands, but there's still a limit.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

My point is that "technically" you are correct, and there are similarities, but he is no more a "musician" than E: D is an MMO. If you don't understand the metaphor, I cannot help you.

It is bad metaphor. Bieber is constructed pop star and celebrity, sure, but he didn't got his gig for nothing. He can sing. That fact that his marketing exploits his sex appeal to young girls is same complain as James Bond movies exploit sexism.

ED is MMO. We maybe don't like it, because some people thinks MMO is bad term for many people - I personally see that as overblown statement. It doesn't carter to uber PC gamers to which that other game directs it's marketing to, but it doesn't mean we can't talk about like it is.

 

[Juniper]

You don't need to write music to be considered a musician.

And E: D doesn't have to be massively multiplayer to be considered an MMO it seems. Frankly, it doesn't bother me what you think of it as - it is what it is, and I hope when the FD marketing campaign starts creaking into action, they tell it as it is. It will prevent argument on forums.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

it is what it is

I took ED to be a hybrid - an MMO "style" game with aspects of FPSs (like CoD and maps)

There could be, and should be, thousands of players online simultaneously (making it an MMO) but you will only "meet" 31 other pilots in space - we don't know the limitations of stations yet so here's hoping.

Getting back on topic .. FD will do their thing when they are ready - sod the gaming websites, what do they know ?!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

The only one I can think of that doesn't is EvE, and... well, good luck having twitch based combat in EvE that's all I can say.

Edit: actually, thinking on, I think even EvE limits the amount of players in a given area. It numbers in the thousands, but there's still a limit.

Exactly. EvE boosts it's "single shard" claim, however they have quite small sectors and even then they have big limits on them.