I'm a Casual Player: What Elite Needs to Draw and Keep Us

What I have paid for the game, Horizons, and probably as much again in paint jobs and laser colors, is dwarfed by what I've spend on HOTAS, Oculus Rift, GPUs etc. I'm not sure exactly what a "casual" player even is, but I don't have a lot of time to spend playing, so I want the time I do have to be a great experience. In my opinion, nothing else really close to Elite, even with all its problems.

I like that it's hard, I like that every new ship or upgrade needs to be earned, I like that the engineers forced me out of my comfort zone, and this I need to skill up to get things done. I absolutely don't want it to be yet another game that is a 20-40 hour experience, and then move on. This might have positive effects in the immediate short term, but will kill of the game in the long term
 
Ive had a number of buddies quit this game. Here is how their journey goes:

They start out amazed at how real flying the ship feels. Amazed at how cool the galaxy is. Amazed at how fun combat is.

Then then they say, 'how can i get money for a better ship'? Then they review their options and take part exploring their money making choice. They quickly get bored with the pointlessness of it and explore a different choice.

Then they ask if i can give them money or trade them a ship. I say, 'id love too but its prohibited by the game'. They bang around for a few more days thrn quit.

You cant trade with people? How immersion breaking.

Every update is just another PVE Grind fest.

Where is this sandbox?
 
I agree with the OP, and with this.
It's probably why my playtime consists mainly of playing for a short while, then getting bored, tired, or frustrated, and walking away for a week or two.
But I keep coming back. I'm sure my love for sci-fi and astronomy has much to do with that.

I've not played for 3 months at least, I'll probably return with multicrew. I'm not all that interested in playing at the moment, but that's fine. FD have their own direction they are taking the game, and if it's not to someone's tastes, it's probably better to do something else in the mean time. The casual thing has been done to death, and as someone pointed out for the most part, the problem isn't so much about needing a more casual friendly environment, some of the features of the game just aren't there yet. Better to chill out than stress out.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Either replace the mentality of your decision maker...or the decisioaker themselves. Because right now, the design direction is KILLING this game.

The ultimate decision maker owns a majority shareholding in the company - it would take a buyout to replace him.

Frontier have said from the start that they are making the game that they want to play - they have made no secret of that.

Referring to timesinks - we, as players, were (after comments on the forum regarding instant ship transfer not being in-keeping with the lore of the game / scale of the galaxy - and where Michael Brookes admitted that instant was a quick win QoL improvement, i.e. ship transfer, that would on reflection change the game quite a bit - and the fact that Sandro was not in favour of instant but had presumably been out-voted) offered the opportunity to vote for instant/costly or delayed/cheaper ship transfers. Over 38,000 players voted - 70% in favour of delayed. Players chose not to select instant transfers as a concession to convenience - and Frontier agreed.

Put simply, in a game where we are given a 1:1 scale representation of the galaxy to play in, travel (i.e. time) is required for everything we do....
 
So play the game casually then, as and when you have time. Like I do really, you must have spent a good half hour writing this rant out, in that half an hour you could have done a few missions or travel 500 or so light years, depending on the ship you have.

It not a race, you aren't competing against anyone but yourself.

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Or you won't have enough players to support continued development.

It's not an ultimatum. It's a reality. And I am not suggesting we make the game brain dead. I am suggesting we make it less outright inconvenient to play.

The point, after all, is fun. Elite shouldn't be a job. Right now, it often feels like one.

It your reality, not mine or anyone elses.

Elite isn't a job, an I perhaps get less than a couple of hours a week playing it, I'm perfectly fine with the face that I'm not going to make it to the center of the galaxy or travel to colonia or own every ship in the game. So I stick with my ASP, I trade, I fight and I explore and I do missions at mine own pace.
 
In short:

-Remove effort/achievement from the game
-Instantly fix complex networking issues because otherwise a few casual players will be miffed, but without making more bugs because that miffs them more
-Allow CMDRs to obtain a fully modded high end ship by staring at any rock for six seconds
-Remove the sense of scale from a "space simulator game" because...a few casuals are miffed
-Remove risk. You should be immortal and rake in billions of credits per second by staring at a rock, but introduce no risk of losing a single credit of that
-Spoonfeed players what to do, because apparently initiative is lost on humans these days
-"Play my way" is an acceptable verbal alternative to "give me what I want"
-Ironically end up with all players doing the same thing, because there's nothing to achieve and therefore nothing to do to achieve it

Bad troll is bad. Even worse at it than I am, I'd wager.

So, to break down your reply and why it's wrong, I provide the following:

1: There is already miniscule achievement in this game in relation to effort put in by the players. Travel to BP, wow, you did it, great. The game doesn't acknowledge this in any meaningful way. It's the players that provide the sense of achievement and for the people who don't regularly play with others in a group, or for those who prefer solo to anything else, there isn't anything beyond arbitrary rank increases.

2: Nobody asked for risk to be removed. OP asked for FDev to fix the incredibly ridiculous and broken interdiction spawn system and noted how the AI doesn't follow the same rules as the player, which is a pain in the butt.

3: OP did not ask for the engineer grind to be taken away. It's noted that the engineer grind should be made meaningful. If you can't understand why it's currently not, you should move along.

4: The only things you can take initiative to actually do/work towards are A) Bigger ships, B) Higher Rank, C) More credits. All of which contribute absolutely nothing to game lore, do not follow game lore or are just a means to an end. Anything else you work for is provided solely by your own imagination or the forum and events coordinated there (Like the upcoming CCC drive).

5. I'd be willing to wager that a vast majority of players already do the same exact thing as everyone else to grind money/rank/engineers as fast as possible.

OP isn't a troll and while you may aspire to be one, I wouldn't put any money on you being even remotely effective at it.

1) Where's your proof for that?

2) If proven, is that any different than most games of the same age?

Otherwise, I think you make some good points - thing is making the game accessible for casual and/or new players need not take away from hard core players - often it enhances the game for them too. Not through shortcutting, but by making the play experience fun where it might not otherwise be - however in Elite's case I think many of the 'problems' are actually important and/or are side effects of other things that are important.

So, there actually is a way to look up player metrics through steam for people who own/play the game on steam. I can't get into their website from work or I'd provide a link, but maybe you should google it before you go on any further about there being no proof for Steam metrics which, in fact, have been in a steady decline for quite awhile.

As for those of you who continue to ask why people who are upset with the game keep playing or keep coming back to the game, it's because ED is really all there is to play right now that's not decades old, populated entirely by griefers, is multiplayer (to an extent) and provides something on this kind of scale.

It's a drug. Mind you, it's still in its early stages and tends to leave a foul aftertaste or you wake up in some stranger's living room with no pants on, but it's still being refined bit by bit. Frontier does indeed need to focus more on their UI and QOL features but they're also working on a fair bit of content to hopefully keep things interesting.
 
There are things that FD can do to make Elite more casual-friendly than it currently is, and you've raised a couple of those ideas. Some things FD would like to do but there are technical limitations to them.

However, and please understand that I didn't read your entire post but rather skimmed it, you seem to feel that you should be allowed to grind out missions or trade routes uninterrupted by NPC pirates (or I'd hazard authorities if it were that sort of mission) and a great big lot of us disagree with you. They're part of the mission. If the missions weren't an interaction with the game universe then they'd just spew out some credits for clicking the button. No, missions are a game within the game where you plot a course from source to destination, avoid or face dangers along the way, and get a reward for it. If you don't like that then there are other experiences within the game too. Sometimes when people say if you don't like it don't play it they aren't being facetious, and not doing missions because they're not fun to you is valid. You aren't complaining that they don't pay enough or there isn't variety, you're complaining that missions aren't your thing so they should be changed dramatically and that's not a valid soap box.

What you're asking for has NOTHING to do with casuals. A casual player needs to be able to stop playing on short notice without a huge penalty, and most missions now give you a day or two to complete. Not much problem there. Other people would say a casual has to be able to make some progress during their game time, and there are certainly opportunities to do that, dodging pirates to deliver missions or passengers is just one of them.

What you are demanding in the name of "casuals" is no interaction with the rest of the game during your game-time, and I'd wager you expect greater rewards than we typically receive (not bringing the currently buggy missions and passengers into it as that's temporary until I'm told otherwise). That's not representative of casual players, its representative of people that are bored and think grinding is the answer to their boredom (wow... ugly surprise for you at the end)

So to sum up, yes there's some good points and I'll try to reread and support you on the reasonable points but you should reexamine the game to see if there's things you'd rather be doing than the particular style of missions you've got a problem with. Afaik, they're not even the best way to grind credits right now

Oh, and everyone hates power play except the ones that love power play. It is simultaneously the worst feature in the game and the one that could be genre-defining if they'd just tweak "x". My takeaway is that it's an acquired taste and not suitable for everybody. (It's not to my taste but I gave it a good run and see why people with more time like it)
 
In short:

-Remove effort/achievement from the game
-Instantly fix complex networking issues because otherwise a few casual players will be miffed, but without making more bugs because that miffs them more
-Allow CMDRs to obtain a fully modded high end ship by staring at any rock for six seconds
-Remove the sense of scale from a "space simulator game" because...a few casuals are miffed
-Remove risk. You should be immortal and rake in billions of credits per second by staring at a rock, but introduce no risk of losing a single credit of that
-Spoonfeed players what to do, because apparently initiative is lost on humans these days
-"Play my way" is an acceptable verbal alternative to "give me what I want"
-Ironically end up with all players doing the same thing, because there's nothing to achieve and therefore nothing to do to achieve it

Bad troll is bad. Even worse at it than I am, I'd wager.

What's challenging about constant alt tabbing, mining and doing the same repetitive tasks over and over.

I want things to be more convenient. More user friendly. What you describe isn't challenge. Cut the elitism. What this game is, is tedious.

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So, to break down your reply and why it's wrong, I provide the following:

1: There is already miniscule achievement in this game in relation to effort put in by the players. Travel to BP, wow, you did it, great. The game doesn't acknowledge this in any meaningful way. It's the players that provide the sense of achievement and for the people who don't regularly play with others in a group, or for those who prefer solo to anything else, there isn't anything beyond arbitrary rank increases.

2: Nobody asked for risk to be removed. OP asked for FDev to fix the incredibly ridiculous and broken interdiction spawn system and noted how the AI doesn't follow the same rules as the player, which is a pain in the butt.

3: OP did not ask for the engineer grind to be taken away. It's noted that the engineer grind should be made meaningful. If you can't understand why it's currently not, you should move along.

4: The only things you can take initiative to actually do/work towards are A) Bigger ships, B) Higher Rank, C) More credits. All of which contribute absolutely nothing to game lore, do not follow game lore or are just a means to an end. Anything else you work for is provided solely by your own imagination or the forum and events coordinated there (Like the upcoming CCC drive).

5. I'd be willing to wager that a vast majority of players already do the same exact thing as everyone else to grind money/rank/engineers as fast as possible.

OP isn't a troll and while you may aspire to be one, I wouldn't put any money on you being even remotely effective at it.



So, there actually is a way to look up player metrics through steam for people who own/play the game on steam. I can't get into their website from work or I'd provide a link, but maybe you should google it before you go on any further about there being no proof for Steam metrics which, in fact, have been in a steady decline for quite awhile.

As for those of you who continue to ask why people who are upset with the game keep playing or keep coming back to the game, it's because ED is really all there is to play right now that's not decades old, populated entirely by griefers, is multiplayer (to an extent) and provides something on this kind of scale.

It's a drug. Mind you, it's still in its early stages and tends to leave a foul aftertaste or you wake up in some stranger's living room with no pants on, but it's still being refined bit by bit. Frontier does indeed need to focus more on their UI and QOL features but they're also working on a fair bit of content to hopefully keep things interesting.

Thanks for the reasoned response.

Honestly, I just the game to not waste my time. Fun, enjoyable time spent is okay. But watching the system jump sequence 60 times in a night isn't playing, it's spectating.

And for those of us who refuse to see time spent grinding as some badge of honor, the Engineers are this nonsensical, lore breaking, immersion wrecking fantasy game copy pasta Collect-a-thon disaster we can't wait to be rid of.

I wanted a Sim. What we got are sim flight mechanics, layered over with droll, tired, mobile gaming grind mechanics.
 
What's challenging about constant alt tabbing, mining and doing the same repetitive tasks over and over.

I want things to be more convenient. More user friendly. What you describe isn't challenge. Cut the elitism. What this game is, is tedious.

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Thanks for the reasoned response.

Honestly, I just the game to not waste my time. Fun, enjoyable time spent is okay. But watching the system jump sequence 60 times in a night isn't playing, it's spectating.

And for those of us who refuse to see time spent grinding as some badge of honor, the Engineers are this nonsensical, lore breaking, immersion wrecking fantasy game copy pasta Collect-a-thon disaster we can't wait to be rid of.

I wanted a Sim. What we got are sim flight mechanics, layered over with droll, tired, mobile gaming grind mechanics.

If you wanted a sim, why did you buy a game? Sorry for not being more constructive or reasonable.
 
I agree with a lot of what the OP said, but am realistic enough to realize that it will fall on deaf ears. For those of you who enjoy the game, good for you.

The bad news is player numbers have dropped, 9000-10,000 people playing whoopee but it means diddly squat. The important thing is how much money people are spending on the game, ask yourself how much you last spent on elite dangerous and when. Now do you think that this level of money will keep the game going ?

A big indicator will be how many people will buy season 3, this could be a shocker.
 
I see that the OP's consistent dislike of this game hasn't changed any since his first post. But I'm curious as to why he keeps on playing, and coming back to 'demand' it's changed into a different game that he would like. Is Elite an addiction?

Interestingly enough, I had that conversation with myself. I did. Honest.

I also thought it WAS addiction. I am prone to that sort of fixation on a game. Hard lessons.

Truth is, I really enjoy FLYING the ships. Just grabbing the HOTAS and being in the cockpit. When I come back, now and then, after long breaks, it's an amazing feeling.

But it wears off. Quicker with each return. Because I realize faster and faster: I can't BE in this universe. Because it isn't one.

This universe doesn't react to me. Doesn't remember me. My choices don't matter - yesterday I was killing Federation. Maybe today, I will fight FOR them. Won't matter.

I want the game to be more than it is. To offer more than it does. To be some semblance of the Sim we were promised. Not just the tired, RNG MMO grind we have had for nigh on two decades.

But it won't be. And maybe next time I return from my trip - on my way back to the bubble from an Expedition passenger mission now - I will just retire the HOTAS for good and let go.

Probably will do.

I'm beginning to understand the frustration of Ed Harris's Man in Black from Westworld (if not his extreme reactions to it). Unlike him, though, I am willing to acknowledge when a game isn't worth the frustration that comes with hoping it will "get better one day" and maybe it is time to just move on.

Wouldn't be the first time.
 
Let's look at your assumptions:-

1. Elite needs casual players.

Elite needs $$. It needs to shift units. It needs cash from expansions and hats and ship paint schemes. The model they have chosen isn't subscription, you pay up front. It does not need casual players.

Sorry but this seems contradictory. Don't casual players buy the expansions and the cosmetics.

And here's some perspective...Steam charts shows No Man's Sky peak players at 212k, ED at 18k. Ah but sarge, you say, not everyone plays on Steam. So, okay, let's be very generous and say only 20% play on Steam, so 90k peak for ED. Let's round it up to 100k for good measure. That still leaves 112k people who could, potentially, be in the market for a game like ED. So, why are they not buying it?

And where did the circa 10k players go that were playing last October but not this one? (18k peak was Oct 2015, most recent highest players was just shy of 8k a couple of weeks ago)

hey, a cobra mkIII costs fully tooled up 13 mio cr, which you can earn in ~10-20 hours play time, and you can enjoy the whole game in it - there is no activity in the game which you can't do and survive in a cobra mkIII, engineered or not.

I didn't pay £70 (ED and Horizons) to play forever in the one ship I got with some effort in the first week.
 
Interestingly enough, I had that conversation with myself. I did. Honest.

I also thought it WAS addiction. I am prone to that sort of fixation on a game. Hard lessons.

Truth is, I really enjoy FLYING the ships. Just grabbing the HOTAS and being in the cockpit. When I come back, now and then, after long breaks, it's an amazing feeling.

But it wears off. Quicker with each return. Because I realize faster and faster: I can't BE in this universe. Because it isn't one.

This universe doesn't react to me. Doesn't remember me. My choices don't matter - yesterday I was killing Federation. Maybe today, I will fight FOR them. Won't matter.

I want the game to be more than it is. To offer more than it does. To be some semblance of the Sim we were promised. Not just the tired, RNG MMO grind we have had for nigh on two decades.

But it won't be. And maybe next time I return from my trip - on my way back to the bubble from an Expedition passenger mission now - I will just retire the HOTAS for good and let go.

Probably will do.

I'm beginning to understand the frustration of Ed Harris's Man in Black from Westworld (if not his extreme reactions to it). Unlike him, though, I am willing to acknowledge when a game isn't worth the frustration that comes with hoping it will "get better one day" and maybe it is time to just move on.

Wouldn't be the first time.

These are some great points but completely at odds with the idea that for casuals to enjoy the game it needs to be simplified and less responsive to what you are doing. Yes, it would be fantastic for the Feds in System Aaaaaaba to remember that you took a pot-shot at one of their officers in a Cz and demand something of you before they'd offer you lucrative contracts. But didn't you complain about having to gain rep with a hundred different factions? How do you tie these together if not through faction rep?

It boils down to you being bored and not knowing why you're bored and thinking if you could just accrue a steady supply of credits without effort you could try something new. However fun that might be for you for a day or two, it's not worth undermining the game for every other player.

So all in all bad Original post, more troll than anything else though I don't think you intended it. Think about what you want from the game and put THAT into a (shorter) post and watch us agree with you. Barring that, sounds like you want to take another break and that too is OK. How many hours do you have into this game? Everybody should take a break from time to time.
 
Elite demands effort for convenience ...... as it should be. The draw here is the great flying experience, including the combat. The other game parts will no doubt improve over the coming years.
 
I can fix the game in 5 steps:

1. Make it possible to trade with players. Credits, ships, modded items etc.

2. Make it possible to buy warehouses at stations and store commodities and materials.

3. Let us have player organizations so we can work collectively for a reason.

4. Let us build and maintian space stations or planetary bases (this is where the grind shpuld be).

5. Have a player market to bring purpose to the game.

B00m. Fixed.
 
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