I'm rich- plz nerf everything!

[frostypaw]

I blame marketing, as usual.

True that, though it's so out of publisher's control now with all the user content and reviews everywhere.

Have you read the top Steam reviews? :/ The up-front introduction for the game needs looking at IMHO now that they've seen how it's working out in real play - the advantages of small ships needs spelling out, how this game is different to usual MMO's and the benefits of not rushing - but how you do that quickly in a way people don't skip? Dunno

 

[Flavourless]

...I care about profession imbalance that kills off piracy...

Couldn't help but notice this little gem.
Piracy is not a profession, it is a last desperate resort conducted by people who for whatever reason are unable to pursue a profession.
Pirates have by their nature a hard and very short life. If piracy is difficult to succeed at in ED, then that is one aspect of the game which is very realistically simulated.

Back on topic, I agree with the posters who state that they have always considered credits too easy to come by in ED, even when they didn't have any.
One of the enduring and endearing features of Elite (84), was how difficult it was to get started. This feature was also present in ED for a while, but the development trend of the game has removed that (and in my opinion the best) aspect of the gameplay. Now it is just a run of the mill rank-up and coin-farm MMO - which is a real shame.
People talk about fun - but where is the fun if there is no challenge?

There is not even any incentive to start again (I have done that with a second CMDR), because the progression is so trivial.
The first time I played ED it took me a month to own a Cobra (after which the game is effectively over) - now it takes less than an hour (even if you are not a fanatical min-max'er).

The only thing that has been nerfed is the sense of achievement. (

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I almost want to post Willy Wonka's "You must be new around here." meme, but I stopped myself

But on topic, I don't care about people earning money, I care about profession imbalance that kills off piracy.

I don't pirate, but I really hope that it gets sorted soon. Hopefully done via commodities with certain commodites being more valuable and other significantly cheaper in Anarchy systems (as they should be).

Give traders a reason to take risks in anarchies and that will be a start. Myself, I only play in open and happy to get pirated as long as it is a real pirate that wants my goods and doesn't want to just kill me like the NPC's do.

 

[Zeta Legion]

Those people are wrong though, and have been told it many many many many many times

But they carry on then hatestay and keep telling people about their misunderstandings about the game that they've determined through all their years of experience are unquestionably correct.

Not necessarily.

Having lots of money = having more, and better options at your disposal.

Take combat for example. Every option looks the same, with 2x C1 and 2x C2 being pretty much the only option (for combat ships, mind. Not counting trash like the DBX) until you can squeeze into an Asp or Vulture. Also flying a Clipper is rather a different experience to piloting an Eagle.

The game is part sim, but it is also still trying to be a GAME, thus, progression. The 'endgame' content is essentially in the form of high-end ships right now. High-end ships are generally more capable than cheap ones, therefore there is a carrot to chase. Some will chase it harder than others. Maybe if/when missions get overhauled there will be super-challenging (and rewarding!) missions for Elite pilots. I think that would be a cool goal to strive for.

I'm just waffling at this point I guess.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Couldn't help but notice this little gem.
Piracy is not a profession, it is a last desperate resort conducted by people who for whatever reason are unable to pursue a profession.
Pirates have by their nature a hard and very short life. If piracy is difficult to succeed at in ED, then that is one aspect of the game which is very realistically simulated.

Back on topic, I agree with the posters who state that they have always considered credits too easy to come by in ED, even when they didn't have any.
One of the enduring and endearing features of Elite (84), was how difficult it was to get started. This feature was also present in ED for a while, but the development trend of the game has removed that (and in my opinion the best) aspect of the gameplay. Now it is just a run of the mill rank-up and coin-farm MMO - which is a real shame.
People talk about fun - but where is the fun if there is no challenge?

There is not even any incentive to start again (I have done that with a second CMDR), because the progression is so trivial.
The first time I played ED it took me a month to own a Cobra (after which the game is effectively over) - now it takes less than an hour (even if you are not a fanatical min-max'er).

The only thing that has been nerfed is the sense of achievement. (

I agree about the money situation. I will be restarting my save this year sometime, but I'm with you and remember it took me a couple of months to get my Cobra MK III.
Now all you need to do is go to a CG and do one bit of trading or Bounty hunting and you can have over a million in some. It is far too easy.

The starter ships where a lot of fun as well, especially the Eagle. I was in my eagle for a long time, even did some shieldless exploration in it, but these days the are bypassed in less then a few hours of play. Such a shame.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I don't pirate, but I really hope that it gets sorted soon. Hopefully done via commodities with certain commodites being more valuable and other significantly cheaper in Anarchy systems (as they should be).

A good start would be to make illegal / restricted goods* in systems being worth 10x on the black market at the station.

*Which is already in the game but heavily underutilised IMO

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I am not rich!

but I still would love to see something put in to encourage the use of the smaller ships.

Whilst reducing the earnings is one way, it is certainly not the only way however.
the long range smuggling probably should be profitable, however if its insane profits are to be kept, then they need to be either made a damn site harder, or have much worse punishments for failure / capture.

Also, finally, they need to have some love put into them.......... carrying slaves or biowaste or fuel for instance for such a long way makes zero sense.

but carrying diseased slaves, contaminated fuel or poisoned food, or neutron bomb, with the sole intention of causing disease or disrupting services at a system... THAT makes sense why it would pay so well, and also would explain why the punishments for failure - from both the mission giver AND the security if they catch you, would be so high.

 

[Leper Messiah]

People talk about fun - but where is the fun if there is no challenge?

Sorry to quote this, but People HAVE to realise the varying skill levels of gamers out there and something that is a trivial challenge for one person could be much more difficult for another. This is the overidding and utter and complete failure of MMOs IMO. You CANNOT have a level playing field. Look at EVERYTHING in life that is competitive and it has multiple levels. Imagine if Sports had a level playing field.....How would a local village football team fair when pitted against the likes of Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid or Barcelona? Or how about a pee wee baseball team of kids having a match against a MBL team?? It just doesn't work at all.

 

[Zeta Legion]

I am not rich!

but I still would love to see something put in to encourage the use of the smaller ships.

Whilst reducing the earnings is one way, it is certainly not the only way however.
the long range smuggling probably should be profitable, however if its insane profits are to be kept, then they need to be either made a damn site harder, or have much worse punishments for failure / capture.

Also, finally, they need to have some love put into them.......... carrying slaves or biowaste or fuel for instance for such a long way makes zero sense.

but carrying diseased slaves, contaminated fuel or poisoned food, or neutron bomb, with the sole intention of causing disease or disrupting services at a system... THAT makes sense why it would pay so well, and also would explain why the punishments for failure - from both the mission giver AND the security if they catch you, would be so high.

Terrorism missions, essentially?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Sorry to quote this, but People HAVE to realise the varying skill levels of gamers out there and something that is a trivial challenge for one person could be much more difficult for another. This is the overidding and utter and complete failure of MMOs IMO. You CANNOT have a level playing field. Look at EVERYTHING in life that is competitive and it has multiple levels. Imagine if Sports had a level playing field.....How would a local village football team fair when pitted against the likes of Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid or Barcelona? Or how about a pee wee baseball team of kids having a match against a MBL team?? It just doesn't work at all.

Unless you have different zones/leagues/areas.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Not necessarily.

Having lots of money = having more, and better options at your disposal.

Take combat for example. Every option looks the same, with 2x C1 and 2x C2 being pretty much the only option (for combat ships, mind. Not counting trash like the DBX) until you can squeeze into an Asp or Vulture. Also flying a Clipper is rather a different experience to piloting an Eagle.

The game is part sim, but it is also still trying to be a GAME, thus, progression. The 'endgame' content is essentially in the form of high-end ships right now. High-end ships are generally more capable than cheap ones, therefore there is a carrot to chase. Some will chase it harder than others. Maybe if/when missions get overhauled there will be super-challenging (and rewarding!) missions for Elite pilots. I think that would be a cool goal to strive for.

I'm just waffling at this point I guess.

I would have to disagree with you here. My biggest ship is a clipper, which most of the time gathers dust. There is no end game, there is just the game. You can be an elite pilot in your eagle very happily and there should be content for elite players that like to play the game in thier eagle as well.

Me personally, I have no wish to get an Annaconda, Cutter or Corvette. These ships just do not appeal to me and I prefer the medium sized ships. Does that mean I am excluded from "end game content". I shouldn't be and I don't think I will be either.

 

[Bieltan]

In some cases, I think suggestions do carry some merit (lets be honest, Robigos payouts dont match its level of challenge at all).

In others, I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. And those people should for sure play Ironman. If they can stick to the self-imposed rules, then it just goes to show how much they would truly appreciate the changes they advocate. I'm willing to bet most couldn't bring themselves to do it.

 

[Zeta Legion]

Sorry to quote this, but People HAVE to realise the varying skill levels of gamers out there and something that is a trivial challenge for one person could be much more difficult for another. This is the overidding and utter and complete failure of MMOs IMO. You CANNOT have a level playing field. Look at EVERYTHING in life that is competitive and it has multiple levels. Imagine if Sports had a level playing field.....How would a local village football team fair when pitted against the likes of Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid or Barcelona? Or how about a pee wee baseball team of kids having a match against a MBL team?? It just doesn't work at all.

That's why difficulty settings exist in most games. Of course you wind up with the special snowflakes that claim hard is too hard, easy is too hard, or hard is too easy and demanding you change the whole game to suit their skill level no matter what you do.

For Elite the best solution to add challenge would be through the mission system. Higher ranks should offer not only better pay for regular missions but progressively more challenging extra missions.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

There is no end game, there is just the game.

In the traditional sense I agree - there is no "end game" to ED, unlike MMOs with a level cap and raiding. However, there are different stages to the game which I feel need to be recognised:

- Starting stage where you're a new pilot with little to no wealth. (1 ship / no ratings or reputation)
- Mid stage where you have wealth to be able to afford a few deaths.
- End stage where you have serious wealth and death is completely meaningless.

(lets be honest, Robigos payouts dont match its level of challenge at all)

Robigo and similar as a concept is fine - the time invested travelling to/from Robigo is worth the pay out at the end. (Coupled with pesky NPCs and the risk of being scanned)

What maybe out of whack is the ability to stack these missions.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

A good start would be to make illegal / restricted goods* in systems being worth 10x on the black market at the station.

*Which is already in the game but heavily underutilised IMO

Agreed. There are a lot of areas that could do with bit of extra flesh.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

In the traditional sense I agree - there is no "end game" to ED, unlike MMOs with a level cap and raiding. However, there are different stages to the game which I feel need to be recognised:

- Starting stage where you're a new pilot with little to no wealth. (1 ship / no ratings or reputation)
- Mid stage where you have wealth to be able to afford a few deaths.
- End stage where you have serious wealth and death is completely meaningless.




Robigo and similar as a concept is fine - the time invested travelling to/from Robigo is worth the pay out at the end. (Coupled with pesky NPCs and the risk of being scanned)

What maybe out of whack is the ability to stack these missions.

Agreed again to a point.

People do need a money sink. I am hoping for personal hanger space or a very small personal base somewhere (that doesn't influance the BGS in any way at all) to put some credits in. Not that I can afford it a the moment.

Hey, we agree on some things for once. ;-)

 

[Arithon]

The first thing I tell any new player, is "there is no end-game ship, no finish line. You make your goals each time you play."

I have every ship. But I am playing the Hammer CG in a Federal Assault Ship, not my Corvette or my Python or my Anaconda. Why? Because the FAS is huge fun. It was either the FAS or the Vulture and the FAS has better jump-range.

I did a brief run in the Corvette, but ammo and repairs are expensive and the ship is slow compared to a smaller fighter. The FAS is exciting.

The money is not the end-goal, it's just a way to keep track if you are moving forward or not. The "goal" is to have fun, which I am.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Hey, we agree on some things for once. ;-)

I admit it's a novel concept that has its attractions

 

[Zeta Legion]

In the traditional sense I agree - there is no "end game" to ED, unlike MMOs with a level cap and raiding. However, there are different stages to the game which I feel need to be recognised:

- Starting stage where you're a new pilot with little to no wealth. (1 ship / no ratings or reputation)
- Mid stage where you have wealth to be able to afford a few deaths.
- End stage where you have serious wealth and death is completely meaningless.




Robigo and similar as a concept is fine - the time invested travelling to/from Robigo is worth the pay out at the end. (Coupled with pesky NPCs and the risk of being scanned)

What maybe out of whack is the ability to stack these missions.

End-stage isn't so much about making death meaningless in most cases. It is the point where ship progression (either naturally or artificially) halts and you really haven't anything left to spend your cash on. Hit the rebuy screen enough times and you'll start to value your assets again especially if you fly an expensive ship. Those rebuys typically take a lot longer to come back from than say, losing a Vulture or DBS.

Mission stacking is a symptom of the cancer that is the bulletin board and it's awful time invested/reward ratio.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Spoiler

End-stage isn't so much about making death meaningless in most cases. It is the point where ship progression (either naturally or artificially) halts and you really haven't anything left to spend your cash on. Hit the rebuy screen enough times and you'll start to value your assets again especially if you fly an expensive ship. Those rebuys typically take a lot longer to come back from than say, losing a Vulture or DBS.

Mission stacking is a symptom of the cancer that is the bulletin board and it's awful time invested/reward ratio.

I agree with the mission stacking and for that matter mode swapping to force the mission board.

The end stage - you're right : a few rebuys of expensive ships will make you stop and think (Had only considered the lower value ships as that's all I can afford )

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I always see arguments like this but I can't help but think that people who've never played an mmo make them,

I've dev'd for an online RPG. I'm speaking from personal experience.