Im worried Fd doesnt know that some of us enjoy powerplay.

[deathmagnet]

Don't worry - they have all the player data on Powerplay... who plays when, how often, how many.

So no matter how noisy some people might be on the forums, and even if hypothetically (ahahahaha) someone did a poll on the forums which showed that of all people who bother to go to the forums and can then be bothered to vote on a poll about Powerplay (hm, there seem to be some self selection bias problems right there), 80% voted that they didn't like Powerplay, Frontier have the actual data about it and know whether it's actually representative.

I'm fairly sure most people at Frontier already know that internet forums already select for more negativity because of some pretty well-known bias effects. So they'd likely want more and better data than forum teacup storms before they start changing game mechanics.

I will agree with you to an extent that the pole might be +/- a little bit but like all polls it is still a fair sampling of the overall player group. I mean there have been over 1300 votes so far. I think the +/- might be 10 points but not any more than that, which would still have the Yes loosing considerably....not to mention the large exodus of players all together (quitting the game, likely never to return) that would obviously vote "no" but they can't because they have quit the game all together..

In regards to the data the FD has.

It is the trend that should worry them not the numbers. How steep is or is not power play participation trending. I feel it has a strong down trend....2 MAJOR player faction have announced they are removing support from power play and many players will stay just long enough to get the weapons. Like I said...it's not the numbers that matter but the trend.

Yes.. I think the poll if fairly accurate to player sentiment.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

I will agree with you to an extent that the pole might be +/- a little bit but like all polls it is still a fair sampling of the overall player group. I mean there have been over 1300 votes so far. I think the +/- might be 10 points but not any more than that, which would still have the Yes loosing considerably....not to mention the large exodus of players all together (quitting the game, likely never to return) that would obviously vote "no" but they can't because they have quit the game all together..

In regards to the data the FD has.

It is the trend that should worry them not the numbers. How steep is or is not power play participation trending. I feel it has a strong down trend....2 MAJOR player faction have announced they are removing support from power play and many players will stay just long enough to get the weapons. Like I said...it's not the numbers that matter but the trend.

Yes.. I think the poll if fairly accurate to player sentiment.

I wasn't claiming the poll was accurate or inaccurate. I was saying we don't know. Statistically, there are some pretty huge intangible variables that the poll encounters if it is trying to be representative of player opinion in general about Powerplay.

1. The poll can only be voted on by those who bother coming to the Frontier forums. Any player who doesn't do this has no voice. We have no idea what proportion of active players come to the forums.
2. Of the players who come to the forums, only those who see the poll thread, bother to open it and then vote on it actually have their voice recorded. Again, we have no real idea what proportion this is.
3. Do you actually have any data on this large exodus of players? Or is it just a general feeling you have?
4. Do you have any data on the trend? Or is it just a general feeling you have?

My entire point was addressed to the OP - that while we can speculate and indulge scuttlebutt to our heart's content on the forums, only Frontier actually have the player data on Powerplay - and that matters a lot more than polls on the forum which might or might not be accurate. And so the OP doesn't need to worry so much about voices being heard on the forums as the underlying data is far more likely to have an effect on how Frontier deal with Powerplay.

What that data is, I'm not going to speculate. Whether the results of that poll are accurate - I'm not going to speculate either, since it seems to me that matters far less than Frontier's gameplay data, which we don't have access to. Saying you think it's accurate to player sentiment is pure speculation since you have no idea of the actual data.

 

[babelfisch]

Thats what people said about Age of Conan, Wildstar, Star Wars The Old Republic, Firefall.
I played them all, among many other MMOs, lived the hype and watched them fail.

These games had very promising hundreds of thousands of sales / subscribers. For a year or so, until other games appeared or got updated.

Any game can generate sales with proper marketing, especially on Steam, with curious people and weekend sales.

Player retention? That's a different story and the key to a profitable online game.
And it doesn't really seem to happen in ED, at the moment.

I think we're more active on the forums than ingame.

Steamcharts tells a different story. Right now the game is healthy and has more players than ever. You are right though, FDEV needs to further update the game, improve what we already got and add new features to keep the player base alive. It looks like this is actually happening, that's why I don't get the negativity. I also wonder how it helps to generate more customers (and keep the game alive) by posting how much everyone hates it.
I already said that the poll in the other thread is not represantative, and even IF it would not mean that the majority of the playerbase is against PP. It just means that they are not happy with it in its current form, thats why FDEV tries to improve it. Yet people use the poll to argue that FDEV should just scrap the work and remove PP all together.

One last thing about DDA. PP is part of the DDA (Tier 1 NPCs), so one can hardly argue that they should focus on something else.

You have no idea if it didn't happen. And neither does FD. All they know is what did happen. It is possible that without powerplay, new sales would have been less than they are now. It is possible that without powerplay, but the reaources put onto feature X, that sales would have been much bigger. Nobody knows, because FD did not do the exercise to find out. The decided that PP was good for the game and put their money where their mouth is. As, indeed, they should. Whether they were right or wrong is almost moot, since it is done. All they need to do now, is decide what best to do given where they are. And no matter what that decision might be, large numbers will criticise it.

I don't believe that PP has anything to do with sold copies. Neither positive nor negative. However the discount in june had a great impact, just look at the numbers.

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

You have no idea if it didn't happen. And neither does FD. All they know is what did happen. It is possible that without powerplay, new sales would have been less than they are now. It is possible that without powerplay, but the reaources put onto feature X, that sales would have been much bigger. Nobody knows, because FD did not do the exercise to find out. The decided that PP was good for the game and put their money where their mouth is. As, indeed, they should. Whether they were right or wrong is almost moot, since it is done. All they need to do now, is decide what best to do given where they are. And no matter what that decision might be, large numbers will criticise it.

Very well said. +1 Rep!

It's true that there is a lot of negativism and complaints on the forum. I'm wondering if FD bothers to check the forums at all with all the background noise about why this should have been done this way and why such and such was a bad idea.

I think we are in a society where everyone needs everything yesterday. We're used to get what we want right now. We get bored quickly with the same stuff and constantly demand new stuff. For me, ED has been a great game. I'm not a big player, I'm in my 50s and have played games in the past, but more as a passing hobby than anything else. However, since ED, I've been really hooked. I easily spend 2-3 hours a day in the game during the week, more during weekend. I think that sometimes, we have to stop on our tracks, take a step back and look at what we have, instead of looking at what we have not. I can still do that and stop when approaching a nicely colored planet with rings around it. I'll stop my ship, take a few screenshots and I'm happy. That's very simple. I have not been engaged in anything, just letting the moment soaks in. I enjoy each landing at each starport as each landing is slightly different from the others. Sometimes, I just stand there, in the station, listen to the voices. Sometimes, I step out of my ship and turn around it, marveling at how beautifully it's rendered. Besides PowerPlay, trading, smuggling, bounty hunting, exploring, there are a lot of those little moments that I enjoy and I'm very happy with what FD has delivered so far. Does ED is perfect to me? Hell no! There are things that need to be fixed. But in such a large game scope, you just have to stop and be able to enjoy what you have. Otherwise, you fall in this category of players, playing a game to no end for about 6 months and then buying the next one and repeating the cycle. ED is unique and I try to enjoy it as much as I can. It really helps me get out of my head, out of my problems and really entertain me. Should everybody else feels the same? No. We are all different. I'm just offering my take on the game and why I like it. Maybe you can reflect on it, or just ignore it!

 

[deathmagnet]

1. The poll can only be voted on by those who bother coming to the Frontier forums. Any player who doesn't do this has no voice. We have no idea what proportion of active players come to the forums.
2. Of the players who come to the forums, only those who see the poll thread, bother to open it and then vote on it actually have their voice recorded. Again, we have no real idea what proportion this is.

Responce to 1 and 2 - 1300 should sample the overall sentiment well. That's how polls work in the world. Not everyone participates but enough do to allow a fair amount accuracy. All of the issues you state balance out with a large enough sampling.

3. Do you actually have any data on this large exodus of players? Or is it just a general feeling you have?

I have some data from our own personal forums and TS as well as speaking with other groups. Participation is down from veteran players but falsely inflated by the influx from XBone, which I am sure FD can track.

4. Do you have any data on the trend? Or is it just a general feeling you have?

No. I was responding to what you said. FD has the data and they should look at the trend, not the numbers, but I ask you this? Why do you think the sudden out pour of dev communication? Why have there been 3 threads started by FD on what they can do to fix Power Play? They see the trend too and are trying to stop the bleeding. There is a saying. The writing is on the wall.

So my overall point is I agree with you. FD has the real data that matters. But with the sudden paradigm shift from them being silent and rarely engaging in the community to the devs are everywhere and responding individual players questions and even asking the community what they can do to fix things....It is fairly obvious that they see an issue that needs to be addressed. Has it reached critical mass yet? IMO...no... but it has become large enough for them to start directly addressing the issue.

 

[Tarman]

Very well said. +1 Rep!

It's true that there is a lot of negativism and complaints on the forum. I'm wondering if FD bothers to check the forums at all with all the background noise about why this should have been done this way and why such and such was a bad idea.

I think we are in a society where everyone needs everything yesterday. We're used to get what we want right now. We get bored quickly with the same stuff and constantly demand new stuff.

For me, ED has been a great game. I'm not a big player, I'm in my 50s and have played games in the past, but more as a passing hobby than anything else. However, since ED, I've been really hooked. I easily spend 2-3 hours a day in the game during the week, more during weekend.

I think that sometimes, we have to stop on our tracks, take a step back and look at what we have, instead of looking at what we have not. I can still do that and stop when approaching a nicely colored planet with rings around it. I'll stop my ship, take a few screenshots and I'm happy. That's very simple. I have not been engaged in anything, just letting the moment soaks in. I enjoy each landing at each starport as each landing is slightly different from the others. Sometimes, I just stand there, in the station, listen to the voices. Sometimes, I step out of my ship and turn around it, marveling at how beautifully it's rendered.

Besides PowerPlay, trading, smuggling, bounty hunting, exploring, there are a lot of those little moments that I enjoy and I'm very happy with what FD has delivered so far. Does ED is perfect to me? Hell no! There are things that need to be fixed. But in such a large game scope, you just have to stop and be able to enjoy what you have. Otherwise, you fall in this category of players, playing a game to no end for about 6 months and then buying the next one and repeating the cycle.

ED is unique and I try to enjoy it as much as I can. It really helps me get out of my head, out of my problems and really entertain me. Should everybody else feels the same? No. We are all different. I'm just offering my take on the game and why I like it. Maybe you can reflect on it, or just ignore it!

Measured criticism isn't just "background noise", and the whole "society can't wait" argument will only take you so far. For me personally, I kind of want some more game in my game. We do have some nice skeleton of a game, but the meat has been very long forthcoming. You can only gnaw bones for so long before they become tasteless.

You should also check out Space Engine, not even hyperbolically or sarcastically speaking; it does all that "wow I took an awesome picture of a space thing" actually a lot better than Elite. SE is quite stunning in its scope and detail.

Also, line breaks.

/puts jackboots away >___>

 

[CMDR Brock Samson]

I'm worried FD doesn't know that powerplay is garbage.

 

[Raist]

I'm worried FD doesn't know that powerplay is garbage.

*snort*

+rep

 

[Darrett]

I'm worried FD doesn't know that powerplay is garbage.

This is my fear as well. It seems to me that they believe that the fixes it needs are minor tweaks to the ruleset, while in reality what it needs is a complete reimplementation to integrate it with the game rather than having it be an entirely separate game mode that has nothing to do with anything else.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

So my overall point is I agree with you. FD has the real data that matters. But with the sudden paradigm shift from them being silent and rarely engaging in the community to the devs are everywhere and responding individual players questions and even asking the community what they can do to fix things....It is fairly obvious that they see an issue that needs to be addressed. Has it reached critical mass yet? IMO...no... but it has become large enough for them to start directly addressing the issue.

Actually, sample size isn't the issue I'm talking about and isn't the only consideration when looking at polls. It's self-selection bias, as I mentioned. Take this example - a magazine called Star Wars Monthly holds a poll for its readers asking which is the best ship in sci-fi fiction, the Millenium Falcon or the Enterprise from Star Trek. The poll comes back with 99% saying that the Millenium Falcon is the best ship in sci-fi fiction. Now if the magazine reported that as "99% of sci-fi fans say that the Millenium Falcon is the best ship in sci-fi fiction", would you consider that there was something off about this poll? Even if it had a sample size of a million, it's not representative of it's conclusion. The readership of a magazine called Star Wars Monthly might be considered to already have a certain bias on the question - and they're the only ones participating in the poll. Correcting for these kind of variables is the bread and butter of a statistician, and is in fact how polls work in the real world.

You just seem to be drawing conclusions on the basis of a nebulous interpretation of some dev behaviour and then making an ominous pronouncement on the basis of it ("The writing is on the wall"). I just don't agree that I've seen anything real to back that up.