Probably using the correct reply account would be a start.
Imperial Slaves - A Proposition
- Thread starter furiouslog
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lol IDK what that receipt is but I'm not buying anything other than Arx on Xbox from time to time
This has been an interesting read so far, so riddle me this:
I murder thousands of innocents playing this game, either for credits, or simply for parts that fall from the carnage I created... The OP is fine with this.
I steal anything that will make a good profit, which affects the pixels in-game negatively... The OP is fine with this.
I will bribe faction representatives with millions of credits as this will enable me to steal even more efficiently... This is fine too.
I will wander into a war between factions I don't care about and blow up ships that are of no consequence to me just to make credits... gotta be good
I will merrily detonate ships carrying medical suplies to systems in outbreak, or foodstuffs to famine struck systems without batting an eyelid, if the profit is good enough...
I'd happily sell slaves, if I could steal them in large enough quantities and the profit from them was on a par with the other cargo I steal, but neither condition is currently met, so not worth my time.
This isn't real-life, it is a game. The 'slaves' are just another canister of cargo, they don't have names, faces, bodies, or even a home... does this make me a supporter of slavery in real-life, and an inherently evil person?
No, I really can't see a valid reason for an asset to be removed from a game because real-life contains far more evil, hate and despair than a game ever could.
Then presenting a comparison to another unnamed game that contains content disliked, isn't this a bit strange as we are discussing this game?
You presented a case based on real-life concerns, well done! If this game with all of the 'evil' actions possible offends you, just don't play - if you continue to play you are truly being a hypocrite to your alleged beliefs, surely?
I murder thousands of innocents playing this game, either for credits, or simply for parts that fall from the carnage I created... The OP is fine with this.
I steal anything that will make a good profit, which affects the pixels in-game negatively... The OP is fine with this.
I will bribe faction representatives with millions of credits as this will enable me to steal even more efficiently... This is fine too.
I will wander into a war between factions I don't care about and blow up ships that are of no consequence to me just to make credits... gotta be good
I will merrily detonate ships carrying medical suplies to systems in outbreak, or foodstuffs to famine struck systems without batting an eyelid, if the profit is good enough...
I'd happily sell slaves, if I could steal them in large enough quantities and the profit from them was on a par with the other cargo I steal, but neither condition is currently met, so not worth my time.
This isn't real-life, it is a game. The 'slaves' are just another canister of cargo, they don't have names, faces, bodies, or even a home... does this make me a supporter of slavery in real-life, and an inherently evil person?
No, I really can't see a valid reason for an asset to be removed from a game because real-life contains far more evil, hate and despair than a game ever could.
Then presenting a comparison to another unnamed game that contains content disliked, isn't this a bit strange as we are discussing this game?
You presented a case based on real-life concerns, well done! If this game with all of the 'evil' actions possible offends you, just don't play - if you continue to play you are truly being a hypocrite to your alleged beliefs, surely?
I could photoshop a legion of fake receipts, or post fake images of all of the Frontier emails I've received since the beginning. I have about 700. Fake ones. I'll let Occam's Razor do the work from here. As for a new account, nope. It's my original, but I deleted my old commander and started fresh at the end of 2020. 2021 was going to be my Elite year. Why would I wait so long? I have a lot of games (over 600 in Steam alone) and many other more important time demands. Anyway, I finally got around to it because my teen son wanted to play too, which also input into my thinking on this issue.I'm not making any claims here, but the mere possession of a receipt doesn't remove the possibility of being some old salt trolling with a new account.
BTW the ERSB warning does not mention anything about simulated slave trading, only drug reference and fantasy violence. It seems like that should be a thing.
There are studies and journals written about this stuff all the time. It's just like the Stanford Prison Experiment. Some people believe that allowing and rewarding these things even in a digital, made up universe, has an affect on us psychologically.
I'm just saying, I don't think it's fair for you to attempt to discredit OP. There are experts researching this type of environment.
So you were cool with your kid playing the game when it was just drugs and fantasy violence but it was slavery that tipped you over the edge?
Oh, so you are suggesting that I am actually a psychopath because I see nothing amiss with fictional events?
Tell me how I am attempting to discredit the OP? Because the only 'evil' that offends him/her/it is a canister of cargo with a title that he dislikes - yet murdering innocents "doesn't count" as they are not real?
I'd think if 'rights' were a true issue then every act against innocents in the game should be offensive, not just one of the current real-life 'trending issues'.
Yeah, shure, I more meant that for example I have never posted a picture of my receipt in any context and if I for some reason wanted to make a sockpuppet account, I could use my receipt on that one - thus it doesn't "prove" anything.
Personally I don't think it really matters - this is the internet. It's just funny that this isn't the first time the forum had this discussion and in the end it always seems to follow the same rather predictable pattern. Ah well, at least it isn't a open only/gankers are evil thread.
I say old chap
, what a spiffing telegram... and as you often say ...'toodly pipsky' and I'd 
just like to add ...' TTFN' o7lol no I didn't and am not suggesting anything other than my belief that there is validity to OP's feelings and statements.
I think this should be an open discussion and I'm not accusing anyone of anything.
Feel however you so choose
Will the next call to change the game be one to remove obvious gender, or colour, and to imply sexual preferences, for the sake of Diversity?
Robert Maynard
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Any more discussion relating to participants rather than the topic will be removed.
Your response, which I quoted, suggests that 'evil' in games is translated into real-life by an unspecified number of humans... By inference it was a suggestion that I must surely fall into that catchment as I have no compunction in playing a thoroughly amoral character in a game.
Then, solely because I presented my interpretation of the statements made by the OP you elect to accuse me of discrediting them?
Then, glibly, suggest I feel however I choose?
I wonder who is being disingenious here of us two?
Sorry, Robert, you posted moments before my response: I shall now retire, with dignity, from the debate.
I'm tired of the argument "this is a game not real life". Very well then, since the game is meaningless as it is not real, just make the change I asked for because I want it. This should not be an issue, since it's not real and means nothing to you. But if you take issue with it, then it has meaning, because to alter it would alter your enjoyment of the game. Therefore, why do you enjoy the game? Is your enjoyment contingent on the presence of slave trading as an activity in the game? No? Then just change it please. Yes? Now you are a person who is unable to enjoy a spaceship simulator unless you can trade slaves, in which case you are a monster. I explained this before.
The downside of getting it out of the game is minimal. The up side is that it's then acknowledging and respecting the very recent issues that my particular nation still struggles with to this day given the aftermath of a history with slavery. It's diminishing slavery as an activity by reducing it to a set of passive clicks in the game with little consequence or consideration of the activity. I also explained this before, please read the thread.
The ethics of murder, drug use, and theft are also an issue, but I can accept that because those issues are pretty universal and not so culturally loaded to me. If someone came in and could explain why drug trafficking was super offensive and alienated an entire culture such that it ruined the game for them, I'd listen to that person. I might challenge them, but I'd listen.
I loved Star Wars, but let's face it, Luke and Han murdered a metric ton of sentient beings when they blew up the Death Star. I'm okay with that. They were bad guys. I kill bad guys in the game. I'm also okay with someone pretending to be a black hat and kill innocents, but I think it's messed up. It's Evil Star Wars to them. Some people like to be Darth Vader. Shrug.
Someone in the thread posted that Frontier made the decision to retain slavery in the game in order to promote debate the give players ethical choices, but it's doing no such thing. It's taking slavery and putting it in the same category with the kind of cartoon violence that is at home in Star Wars. It's insulting, tone deaf, disrespectful, and messed up to think that's an appropriate way to foster meaningful debate and a consideration of ethical choices. You can't have it both ways. Either you're trivializing slavery, you're discounting it as irrelevant, or you're fantasizing about it. None of those are good. And guess what, I said this before. I'd really recommend reading the whole thread. Skip the parts where people make fun of my user name and such, unless you feel motivated out of a sense of schadenfreude.
![[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/234/234580.jpg?1612617334){kind=avatar}
Which knight invented the round table?
Sir Cumference.
I thought I would tell a little joke to lighten the tension and to tell you you all this is going round in circles.
Sir Cumference.
I thought I would tell a little joke to lighten the tension and to tell you you all this is going round in circles.
But you inferred this based on what?
Why? Killing is ending a life. Definitively. You're ok with that being in a game but not slavery? That's the one thing I really don't get.
I don't agree with you that slavery should be retconned from the game, but you aren't wrong in this one. I've always written it off by noting that lack of consequence and meaningfulness is pretty common in ED, from tons of narcotics delivered to murdering hundreds of pixel ships for making a number change in BGS.
I think the conclusion is that we want anti-slavery in game to be a thing.
We can hope for the mirror to be raised high enough to look at the socio-economic impact (Yay, we have freed the slaves; let's send them all to Liberia; oh dear it's a failed state; still, not my problem anymore!), and the effects on a society (a la The Reconstruction period of US history), but at most we'll get a CG to "free X slaves" to get "moar waeponz".
The game has scope for not only this type of action - but also of promotion of fundamentalist religion's "holy war", of pushing a particular economic model (anarchism in the Le Guin sense) and so on, BUT at the moment there is no discernable difference in game to the government types or labels or economic models presented.
Like "slaves", at the moment the only thing different is the label on the cannister. We can hope for this to change, but I doubt Frontier have the time or resources to implement anything like that at all.
We can hope for the mirror to be raised high enough to look at the socio-economic impact (Yay, we have freed the slaves; let's send them all to Liberia; oh dear it's a failed state; still, not my problem anymore!), and the effects on a society (a la The Reconstruction period of US history), but at most we'll get a CG to "free X slaves" to get "moar waeponz".
The game has scope for not only this type of action - but also of promotion of fundamentalist religion's "holy war", of pushing a particular economic model (anarchism in the Le Guin sense) and so on, BUT at the moment there is no discernable difference in game to the government types or labels or economic models presented.
Like "slaves", at the moment the only thing different is the label on the cannister. We can hope for this to change, but I doubt Frontier have the time or resources to implement anything like that at all.
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