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News Implementation of a dedicated mission server
Hi Dav and Dom, we see youAny secrets about these upcoming Mission Board developments you'd like to divulge?
Wah! Tell me how it works! I wantzit
[Edit: Wait, nvm. Found it
]<jellyface></jellyface>
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Agreed, and it is needed...it is a great thingy that it is being done.
However...having a reliable, but terrible Missions System is not going to do the game any favours. What would be fit-for-purpose, is something like Saving Princess' idea, an enhanced mission filter system which allows the Commander to RPG the missions system, and links together game play loops. What I think we'll get is the current system on a dedicated server, which I think would slow the game down even more than it currently plays and add a layer of shallow to the puddle. In that context, a Refresh Button would allow the gameplayer to skip stones across that puddle and the server load be damned.
As such, a Refresh Button is a terrible idea as far as the technical reason you outline is concerned. However, ED is not a technical system. It is a human activity system which relies on technical application, and as such if we get the current system on it's own server without being able to manually reset the missions lists, humans will be impacted.
Maybe knowing that now, with the plan to organise and dedicated server and realising issues over server load, they should buy two? (or tweak the SLA)
I think maybe your quote above, is proof of concept that in moving to a dedicated server, the Missions System is required to be redesigned from the ground up. In the mid to long term, it will save money.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...e-Gameplay-Loops-QoL-Features-and-Asset-ideas
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-on-passenger-missions-post-quot-balance-quot
Between Saving Princess, Six6VI and your post here, the Enhanced Filters with Gameplay Loops, better reflecting "stuff", is a pretty rounded methodology and a great starting point to do that. But then it's all been said before, many times...we have what we have...and we'll probably just get the same on a faster technical platform. How marvellous, yaaay.
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Sure; one reason I'm wondering whether these 'commodity' missions ("missions which are treated themselves as a commodity; i.e. not in any way special such as rank up missions or tied to unique NPCS") couldn't be created client side and do almost all of the work there.
Using the 'magic' to pre-select a set of criteria appropriate to the current capabilities might be good idea, then let the player add to or remove those as they see fit.
OTOMH here are a few variables that could be used to govern mission availability:
- Pilot ranks
- Ship capacity
- Ship role
- Ship quality
- Pilot reputation with giver
- Pilot reputation with giver's enemies
- Pilot's permit
- Pilot's legal status in source, destination systems
- Other missions currently active
- Other cargo
One good reason for showing unavailable 'tease' missions is that they give feedback that can motivate player behaviour and progression, eg: "You can fit a Luxury cabin to an Adder but that doesn't mean my client would be seen dead on board a tub like that!", "We don't trust you because word reaches us you are too friendly with the Judea People's Front!". A filter, enabled by default, would allow players to see unavailable missions if they wanted to. Perhaps very high reputation with a faction would permit players to take a mission than their current ship's capabilities would allow: "We trust you have access to a larger ship to complete this mission".
I haven't thought this through entirely yet, but my gut is that you could have two classes of missions, the 'commodity' stuff which people currently board flip to reach capacity in (where capacity can be hold/cabin utilization, but also total illegality, and total armed opposition to all missions) generated client side, and 'premium' missions, which would be server generated and include in-space PoI given missions, assassination missions, faction rank up, permit missions, Power missions..., and any other kind of premium content FD would like to output on a regular basis. There would be a set of event listeners that could trigger giving such a system, like the ones we have currently for in-space missions where you are in system for a certain time.
Let me tell you about the time I had to implement a refresh button on a WiFi configuration panel... scanning for networks did various nasty blocking things to the kernel (which was doing periodic scans anyway), so I faked it, jittered the positions of 'scanned' networks a bit on click, disabled the button and put a spinner on it indicating when it would be pressable again. Skinner box addicts were happy, and it left the kernel in peace.
Refreshing the mission list and board flipping are a symptom, but not the only solution to the problem of efficiently utilising a player and their ship's capacity towards their goals. In the end I'd like the gameplay to resemble something like "Docking clamps engaged... Unloading cargo... Uploading stevedore agent to station systems... contract bundle received... Approve/Modify/Reject... Loading cargo..." and maybe "FLASH MESSAGE: Personal mission request received" once in a while, then launch.
I don't think generating missions on the client would pass the anti-cheat stuff they put in. That means we have to download all the non-personalised missions up to the reasonable timeout determined by FDev (30sec according to the livestream linked a few pages ago), this is (or was at the time of that livestream) capped at 20 regular missions, 20 passenger missions. Presumably this can be increased to 40 each, that list would then be locally filtered (eg ship too large, or new player selected filters).
As an alternative, keeping most of the current arrangement in place, filters could be set before downloading the list, with a max query list of 40 missions from a much larger list held on the server. If you filter a lot you see up to 40 missions that meet your criteria, if you have no filter you see up to 40 random missions (maybe always 40) from the bigger list.
It would be a bonus for BGS players & moneymakers alike, I would never have to see how much influence a mining mission offers, wishing mining wasn't so soul-crushingly dull, everyone's a winner
That's not a bad trade-off, it would still return agency to the player but, would also require a rework of the GUI to fit all the options.
Perhaps something that removes obvious issues, like you can't refine without a refinery, so offering mining missions is a bit pointless.
You have to leave the board to fit one, or change to a ship that has one and come back. Mission availability changes make sense.
It's also relatively simple to resolve the tickets: "Why can't I see mining missions?" Reply: "Are you sitting in a ship with a refinery?"
Seems like a functional happy path, which provided a solution taking into account the limitations you were working with at the time.
Yeah I think intelligent systems would be great, but seeing how complex systems like this tend to fail in this game and take a lot of work to keep up to date... A simpler system might be better.
"I have up to 900 tonnes of silver that need to be delivered to XYZ" - Ok I can take in 300, give me 30% of the pay.
And the same with passengers.
Or: "I need you to massacre ships in the XY system, paying XX for every ship up to 50 ships. "
You just take as much as you can and don't have to take all. Seems to be a much more user-friendly way to make bulk missions than the current wing mission system, where you have to take all even if you just want a part of it. Sure - rewards for this type of mission would be better limited to money rewards to make it less awkward.
This way you won't have to refresh to get your Beluga or T9 full and the same missions could be also used by people with smaller ships.
"I have up to 900 tonnes of silver that need to be delivered to XYZ" - Ok I can take in 300, give me 30% of the pay.
And the same with passengers.
Or: "I need you to massacre ships in the XY system, paying XX for every ship up to 50 ships. "
You just take as much as you can and don't have to take all. Seems to be a much more user-friendly way to make bulk missions than the current wing mission system, where you have to take all even if you just want a part of it. Sure - rewards for this type of mission would be better limited to money rewards to make it less awkward.
This way you won't have to refresh to get your Beluga or T9 full and the same missions could be also used by people with smaller ships.
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Assuming that the anti-cheat is to prevent faked missions generating excessive (Cr|faction influence|superpower rank) per time unit:
- Have some rules governing the distribution of missions (ultimately Cr|influence/hr) on the client
- On the server, check those same rules per mission, and the overall set of currently active missions, each time a new mission is accepted. The client side 'drop rates' are known, eg: if the client tries to accept 6 huge payout, 0.5LY, 15Ls missions inside of a minute, red light: cancel the mission; if the client accepts the same missions over 10 hours, green light.
I can see a mixed solution. Server side missions as they are and then you have client side missions that are more personalised and even injected to the commander during an update and you get them depending on what they have done and achieved. Things that spring to mind could be a proper implementation of a personal narative with the tech brokers, the Thargoid/Guardian ruins missions but with a bit more depth.
All would be optional as they are now, but they could lead to things such as guardian modules and the like. Sort of like mini quests that are personal to you. Not save the princess type missions, as they wouldn't make much sense in the grand scheme of things.
I also would change the name of the missions we get now to contracts as it would make more sense.
Hi Dav and Dom, we see you
There is no Silent Running on the forums. Muhahahaha..
[combat logs]
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
I just wanna know what Kind of Shampoo Dav uses on his hair. Because its pretty fresh.
Now look what you did! Dav ran away
That answers that question: "Wash and Go".
PC still doesn't have an achievements list
Tech brokers and material traders don't advertise in local / system chat, at the stations or the nav beacons. I'd prefer to see "15% off ALL ships and modules!" instead of wedding chatter, just sayin. And why don't they have big holograms out front of the stations?
Engineer missions can be postponed, by not exploring, or handing in any bounty vouchers, or delivering booze, explosives or sl... Let's not go there. But we do have a page to track our progress with them, and it could have a second tab for other, persistent until completed career missions. Like, uncle Rammy's ruins runs! Why is that not tucked away in the interface, waiting to be stumbled upon?
A third tab could be used to enrich your navy progression and replace or augment those little bars in your reputation panel. Maybe all navy calls to active duty could be sent to you directly and you can complete as many as you want in a follow on chain to directly affect (grind) your rank. What if you could select a faction to fight for, outside a CZ to report for active duty?
Or, do something else entirely. Fetch contracts, or a CG.
There are a huge number of awesome things FDev could do to put flesh on the legs but... Does it have a skeleton capable of handling the extra functionality, or would a MkII be a more cost effective and scalable move? Perhaps the new hardware could facilitate a more seamless transfer to new code, and an opportunity to beta test?
It seems logical that dedicated hardware creates an opportunity for a more stable, equitable platform. Hopefully the mission team will be able to concentrate on creative enhancements instead of exhausting themselves swingin the ol' nerf bats.
When I mean achievements I don't mean achievement lists like the Xbox or PS4. I mean dicoveries and things like that.PC still doesn't have an achievements list
You would think they could add this to the game.
Yup agreed.
Missions to enhance the navy progression would be great. Again some of this could be personal narative stuff that you get from the client mission system.
Yup.
I can't see it being cheaper to recreate from scratch. Might as well create and inject into the current model. I see no reason why they can't do it at the moment.
Lets hope so.
Nothing springs to mind.
Max's suggestion of a personal narrative (really long chained mission) could work locally because all you'd cheat is part of the narrative (ie the actual game content) & whether that's a problem or not is more about any reward at the end than the actual missions themselves.
Achievement lists are a very handy thing to grind towards, as are the earlier mentioned teaser missions you don't have the reputation or fleet for, yet. One can be justifiably tucked away somewhere you can find it when you want it, the other is occupying multiple pieces of valuable real estate in every single mission board, like it or not. I still think I'd prefer to see that space used for missions I might be able to do instead of one's I definitely can't because, locked.
I'm hoping the Q4 Codex is going to make discovery tracking a lot more streamlined, and maybe it will contain a list that populates as other people discover things as well? Has anyone ever seen a complete list of tourist beacons? That might be a good list for explorers, with a gold star if you bring passengers. And I'd really like to see a mechanism that tries to fill up your cabins before you leave the station or on your way out of the bubble on long range missions.
Perhaps a list of INRA bases discovered so far, or crashed condas, all the thargoid bases, where to look for sensors and probes, and keys, and relics... There is so much to see in ED, but a distinct lack of signposts or tools to find them. Within the game, for VR folks
The Mission Krait MkII could be our only hope.