Improving on foot multicrew by changing how we respawn and reviving our team mates.

With 4 player multi-crew coming I think a lot of people will play it and it could be a lot of fun, but it's missing a vital part of the experience - The feeling of being in a team, succeeding and failing, learning and achieving things together.

To help to make this better can I make couple of small suggestions?

1. Please consider the ship the team fly in to be the mothership.
Do not dismiss it to space, even if the owning commander dies.
Instead leave it where it was parked and if anyone dies, respawn them inside the mothership where it was parked, not at the nearest station or in orbit.
The mothership was landed deliberately at a location - it should stay where it is until manually dismissed.

The reason for this is simple. If a member of the crew dies while on a mission with their friends, they appear at the nearest station (or last station) this kills the multicrew experience as they have to make their way back to the team by their own means instead of getting right back into the action with their friends, this can take an extremely long time and ruins the experience. It makes multi-crew foot missions pointless, everyone may as well bring their own ship. The team went on a mission to do a thing, not wait for their friends to re-join after a long trip back to the team.

If the mothership has been dismissed to space, the crewmate can't land the ship themselves if they do not own it.
The best thing is to just leave it on planet & respawn there as a kind of operating base.

If a commander does dismiss the mothership and a crewmate dies, then the commander should recall the ship once the party member has respawned on it. But this should be an edge case, not the normal behaviour. It should be the commanders choice to perhaps go to a location where the violence is less and recall the ship there so they can regroup and try again.

Here's a Use Case for this:
As a team mate,
I appreciate that space is dangerous and my team rely on me. I joined the team to enjoy gameplay together, My team and the mission we are undertaking together may be far from where my own ship is parked, or the last station that I stood on, I would like the option to respawn on the mothership, thus keeping the team together on mission when things go bad, allowing for more gameplay opportunities.

As the owner of the mothership,
I would like to choose where to land the ship so myself and the rest of the team can depart, safe knowing that should we fall, we can be revived on the mothership and that it's exactly where it was left should we need to make a hasty retreat. I would still like the option of dismissing the ship to orbit if I feel that it is in danger, but I would expect that to be my choice, not an automatic feature. If the mothership is destroyed, then there will be no place to respawn... we'll all have to be revived back on the station unless one of the team takes an Apex shuttle and fetches another ship we can have as our mothership.

The ship we join as multi-crew should be deemed to be the Mothership.


2. Can we please revive our friends with a med-kit.
In the description it's stated that they're not dead. So like in other games, give the player a chance to be revived.
Let a crewmate help them and continue the mission instead of them having no choice but to respawn.
Make this an option for the team member, have it so they can choose to wait to be revived - while the rest of the team apply a med-kit (or scramble to find one) or they can choose to respawn in the mothership. Or they can choose to respawn at the nearest station. Make it their choice so they can be tactical about it with their play session.

Here's a Use Case for this:

As a player with a med-kit,
I want to revive my friends and get on with the mission.

As a player without a med-kit
I want to revive my friends, but first I must find a med-kit... where's the bloomin' medkit?.. Hang on there Barry, I'm coming!

As a fallen player,
I don't want to respawn and then walk back to my friends who parked the ship over 2km away from the mission if they have a med-kit handy or could get hold of one. I would like the choice to wait, to respawn at the ship or to respawn at the last station I stood on. Then I can get back into it and continue the mission.


In closing
I believe these changes would make the multi-crew foot based gameplay a very compelling addition to the game. It would give a sense of being in a team, much in the same way that other 4 player co-op games do. We're in this together and can someone please revive Scorb.. again!
 
Fully agree with Ascorbius on this suggestion.

Point 1:

When playing together with friends as a group in any game, nothing is worse than splitting that group apart when someone gets downed. Especially over the travel distances Elite tends to have, nobody wants to have to spend 5 minutes in an Apex Shuttle or waiting for their own ship to arrive so they can get back to their friends at a settlement, some missions can even be completed in that time period.

Having the ship become the 'forward operating base' for a team allows players to quickly get back into the action without having to break the gameplay loop and wait.

As far as the ship disembarking, that should have a toggle button similar to how toggles for flight assist, cargo hatch, hyperspace dethrottle and stuff can be found on the right side panel, perhaps one for "Take-Off On Disembark" so the player can decide if they want they ship to stay or leave when they get out on-foot.

Point 2:

A downed 'revive' mechanic would be fantastic too, expending a med pack is definitely a nice way to keep my friends in the battle. The challenge would be on what a downed player can do, perhaps the player enters a prone state and can crawl around slowly to move into cover?

A downed mechanic also seems more practical in the event that having the ship function as a mothership and respawn hub for teams just isn't possible, it means a player can spend a medkit to being their friends back and not have to wait.
 

sallymorganmoore

Senior Community Manager : Elite Dangerous
Heya Scorbie.
Seen a tonne of pings on my Twitter and of course your post now.
Thanks so much for going into detail.
It's of course not the first time frustrations have been sounded about how respawning currently works the way it does, so thanks for coming in here with the deal-io written up in this constructive way and taking the time.
Notebook has a page for it! Just wanted you to know I've seen it.
Happy Friday!
 
Heya Scorbie.
Seen a tonne of pings on my Twitter and of course your post now.
Thanks so much for going into detail.
It's of course not the first time frustrations have been sounded about how respawning currently works the way it does, so thanks for coming in here with the deal-io written up in this constructive way and taking the time.
Notebook has a page for it! Just wanted you to know I've seen it.
Happy Friday!
Thanks Sally, You're the best :)
 
Yep, I get so annoyed when you can actually get a team together and after 3 minutes, half of your squad are at penal ships 4 systems away and then getting them re-instanced is a nightmare.
Either give us medi-kits but make it so you can only carry one, OR have a medi suit with a medical tool for reviving players, so a team has to protect their medic.
Ship respawning is a must, let the ship stay as long as possible and then players can rejoin a battle. It should be hard to complete some missions but it shouldn't make you quit and play other games together as multiplayer can be so infuriating.
 
Totally agree, especially for revive.

also like to second that. sally is the best!

…and since she’s watching, also for multicrew…. perhaps she could add a page to her handy dandy notebook for multicrewed SLF’s to operate more in line with SRVs. Physical, rather than telepresence. And landable too. We can leave a crewmate on a planet in our SRV now, so why not SLF too?
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
With 4 player multi-crew coming I think a lot of people will play it and it could be a lot of fun, but it's missing a vital part of the experience - The feeling of being in a team, succeeding and failing, learning and achieving things together.

To help to make this better can I make couple of small suggestions?

1. Please consider the ship the team fly in to be the mothership.
Do not dismiss it to space, even if the owning commander dies.
Instead leave it where it was parked and if anyone dies, respawn them inside the mothership where it was parked, not at the nearest station or in orbit.
The mothership was landed deliberately at a location - it should stay where it is until manually dismissed.

The reason for this is simple. If a member of the crew dies while on a mission with their friends, they appear at the nearest station (or last station) this kills the multicrew experience as they have to make their way back to the team by their own means instead of getting right back into the action with their friends, this can take an extremely long time and ruins the experience. It makes multi-crew foot missions pointless, everyone may as well bring their own ship. The team went on a mission to do a thing, not wait for their friends to re-join after a long trip back to the team.

If the mothership has been dismissed to space, the crewmate can't land the ship themselves if they do not own it.
The best thing is to just leave it on planet & respawn there as a kind of operating base.

If a commander does dismiss the mothership and a crewmate dies, then the commander should recall the ship once the party member has respawned on it. But this should be an edge case, not the normal behaviour. It should be the commanders choice to perhaps go to a location where the violence is less and recall the ship there so they can regroup and try again.

Here's a Use Case for this:
As a team mate,
I appreciate that space is dangerous and my team rely on me. I joined the team to enjoy gameplay together, My team and the mission we are undertaking together may be far from where my own ship is parked, or the last station that I stood on, I would like the option to respawn on the mothership, thus keeping the team together on mission when things go bad, allowing for more gameplay opportunities.

As the owner of the mothership,
I would like to choose where to land the ship so myself and the rest of the team can depart, safe knowing that should we fall, we can be revived on the mothership and that it's exactly where it was left should we need to make a hasty retreat. I would still like the option of dismissing the ship to orbit if I feel that it is in danger, but I would expect that to be my choice, not an automatic feature. If the mothership is destroyed, then there will be no place to respawn... we'll all have to be revived back on the station unless one of the team takes an Apex shuttle and fetches another ship we can have as our mothership.

The ship we join as multi-crew should be deemed to be the Mothership.


2. Can we please revive our friends with a med-kit.
In the description it's stated that they're not dead. So like in other games, give the player a chance to be revived.
Let a crewmate help them and continue the mission instead of them having no choice but to respawn.
Make this an option for the team member, have it so they can choose to wait to be revived - while the rest of the team apply a med-kit (or scramble to find one) or they can choose to respawn in the mothership. Or they can choose to respawn at the nearest station. Make it their choice so they can be tactical about it with their play session.

Here's a Use Case for this:

As a player with a med-kit,
I want to revive my friends and get on with the mission.

As a player without a med-kit
I want to revive my friends, but first I must find a med-kit... where's the bloomin' medkit?.. Hang on there Barry, I'm coming!

As a fallen player,
I don't want to respawn and then walk back to my friends who parked the ship over 2km away from the mission if they have a med-kit handy or could get hold of one. I would like the choice to wait, to respawn at the ship or to respawn at the last station I stood on. Then I can get back into it and continue the mission.


In closing
I believe these changes would make the multi-crew foot based gameplay a very compelling addition to the game. It would give a sense of being in a team, much in the same way that other 4 player co-op games do. We're in this together and can someone please revive Scorb.. again!
Fully echo the ideas here @sallymorganmoore , here my own rumblings on the matter a couple months back:

Regarding respawn:
Multi-crew respawn feedback:

When you physically multicrew and fly in a wingmate´s ship, get to a settlement, disembark and die in combat there then the game respawn you back at your ship location wherever that may be. This leads to long periods of wait to get back into the action with your crew mates.

Unless sent to a penal station due to crimes etc I would suggest crew members dying have an additional spawn option to spawn in orbit (similar to when you bring your own ship) at a Vulture dropship (like in CZ) or an Apex which are then automatically bound to go to the general area where they died last.

Regarding revive/heal mechanics:
Posted this in the feedback thread but maybe better a dedicated thread if of interest for discussion:

At present the penalty of death while out in a settlement seems significant as the player loses any and all active missions and all consumable and materials carried. The player also loses the time used there plus the Apex transport time which is also significant.

I suggest that a simple and straightforward revive mechanic be implemented:
  • A downed player with critical injuries gets a 1 minute window (or other arbitrary amount of time based on game balance) within which he/she can be revived by a wing mate.
  • On being injured critically the downed player gets presented with an option to wait for revive from a wing mate or to give up and respawn at a station like at present.
  • While waiting for a revive the player can not control camera, the image is darkened like the current visual after critical injury but the player can still see the scanner info.
  • A revive action by a wing mate takes a reasonable amount of time and needs said wing mate to use an available medikit.
  • If the revive window lapses the player respawns at a station or ship etc like at present.
  • If revived the player receives a minimum amount of health and energy, and he/she must refill those as per usual.
  • Edit: Possibly limit revives to a max number per arbitrary period of time, say 1 per hour or 1 per 5 hours or similar.
This mechanic could get a great sinergy with the shield grenade.

Edit for alpha phase 2: This mechanic can also work in CZ, the team the downed player is in will not lose the 10 resource points until the downed player gives up waiting for a heal and clicks the "respawn button" or the revive window lapses. If the player is revived before the revive window lapses then his/her team does not lose the 10 resource points.
 
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sallymorganmoore

Senior Community Manager : Elite Dangerous
Fully echo the ideas here @sallymorganmoore , here my own rumblings on the matter a couple months back:

Regarding respawn:

Regarding revive/heal mechanics:
Lovely jubbleyyyyyy yessssssss.
Need a ring binder soon, not a notebook - haha o7
 
If the programming is turning into an issue, and the team is worried about breaking existing respawn code...

Why not attach the new respawn behavior to an optional internal module? Call it a Team Medbay. Make it in two sizes, size 2 that only respawns up to 2 players for groups in Cobras and Adders; and a size 3 or 4 medbay, which can respawn a whole team of 4 players, for bigger ships.

So if the team leader doesn't have a medbay installed in the "mothership", respawn funcitons as it currently is. If the team leader installs a Medbay... its GO time!
 
If the programming is turning into an issue, and the team is worried about breaking existing respawn code...

Why not attach the new respawn behavior to an optional internal module? Call it a Team Medbay. Make it in two sizes, size 2 that only respawns up to 2 players for groups in Cobras and Adders; and a size 3 or 4 medbay, which can respawn a whole team of 4 players, for bigger ships.

So if the team leader doesn't have a medbay installed in the "mothership", respawn funcitons as it currently is. If the team leader installs a Medbay... its GO time!

This 👆 would seem more appropriate than changing the current respawn mechanic
 
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