In case you missed the latest interview with MB on Exploration

[mossfoot]

A mistake i'm perfectly happy about

I know some people like the idea of triangulating and watching paralax, but for me, that's just meh. I like the super ADS, and you can pry it from my cold dead hands

dont you think the suggested fix (infinite range, but finite details based on distance) is viable?

 

[Ziljan]

A mistake i'm perfectly happy about

I know some people like the idea of triangulating and watching paralax, but for me, that's just meh. I like the super ADS, and you can pry it from my cold dead hands

Different strokes. There are a few people that love the current ADS. But most people seem to agree that it's a bit too easy.


I am definitely in the last group. But frontier doesn't seem inclined To alter the current mechanic, even though many do really want it.

Rather than argue the point, this is why I suggested making the discovery scanner pings detectable by Thargoids based on the range/power. The stronger the ping, the more likely it is to cause an alien scout ship to appear. I am assuming here that people wouldn't want to risk all of their exploration data attracting unwanted attention.

So they may prefer to keep their pings small to avoid detection. Or to just toot and scoot, and hope for the best!

We could even make the range variable and set power of the ping with same dial we use to set the range of the normal sensors. This way we could still infinite ping or 500 Ls ping with the same ADS. Using a 500 Ls ping could allow to scan most of a system before being detected by any local aliens. While using the infinite range could bring a wing of baddies breathing down your neck.

I imagine such encounters will be somewhat uncommon in any case. But knowing that big ping could bring a rain of pain knocking at your cargo hatch door, could raise the intensity factor up significantly with each explored system. Risk vs reward

 

[Agony_Aunt]

dont you think the suggested fix (infinite range, but finite details based on distance) is viable?

We already get finite details. You have to do a full scan for full details. So i guess its actually less details. Perhaps... but too used to it how it is at the moment, so nah, i'm good thanks.

 

[Eisen]

I think the best option for ADS is for it to identify that there is *something* there but for it to only provide more information as you approach it. If, for instance, it had a fixed range of 100,000 Ls then the chances of anything more remote than that ever being discovered becomes incredibly unlikely. Hardly anyone is going to bother trying to detect such remote stars by parallax and then take the time to fly toward them in the hope that there might be worthwhile planets.

The galmap, as it is now, already reveals if there are more than one stars in a system. So there is a way to know it in advance but you'd still have to search for it. I like that.
The other part of your proposal would require a change in planet-sounds too. Otherwise you could easily distinguish what the grey blob is if you know the sounds.

 

[drkaii]

Why you not mention confirmation of sentient life? Probably the biggest bombshell in the whole stream

 

[Ziljan]

Why you not mention confirmation of sentient life? Probably the biggest bombshell in the whole stream

Thats what the whole "unnatural hazard" section was for .

 

[drkaii]

Thats what the whole "unnatural hazard" section was for .

The unnatural hazards I thought were referring to pretty much his first statement. This is what I'm talking about: https://youtu.be/Gaoem7l1Qwg?t=1908

 

[Traveller_GG]

Soooo frustrated that the scanner type determines length of scan idea was mooted first, 'cos I'd thought of that earlier... muttermutter.

Anyhoo: The system scanner uses some kind of energy pulse to scan a system and like a marine 'ping' it can be heard further than it returns a signal, just like a torch can be seen further than it lights up. Consequently the 'honk' should be heard more readily than it reveals; and by this I mean it lights you up on the system scanner big and bright for anyone in the system. Whatever the consequences of this are up to the devs, but yes.... Thargoids. You can mitigate this by silent running, or dropping into / out of SC; but the one you don't do (so people will) is honk as soon as you enter a system as you're stuck in the gravity well of the local star.

Moving back to the ADS / DSS: there should be a revamp all over this: the B/I/ADS could scan a system revealing more details as time progresses (more planets as the scan 'moves' outwards) and the time is dependent on the model purchased and the DSS could become a B/I/ADSS which does the same for the planet but ALSO revealing more details of the world based upon the model of scanner.

TL: DR:
System Scanner lights you up for the time you are scanning. Time is dependent on cost of model.
Surface Scanner: the more expensive model reveals more details more quickly.

The more expensive items weigh MORE as a trade-off, this is where jump juice comes in to play.



This changes the entire dynamic of exploration... you can be a detailed scanner type but it takes more effort to get anywhere or you can skip along missing out the details.

All this while trying to avoid unwanted attention.

 

[Ziljan]

[woah]

The unnatural hazards I thought were referring to pretty much his first statement. This is what I'm talking about: https://youtu.be/Gaoem7l1Qwg?t=1908

That one was a bit too cryptic to take any conclusions from. I thought that they had already confirmed that we've already found what there is to be found in terms of types of discoverable objects. Unless of course there is a planet out there somewhere with lights on the night side outside the bubble? And the discovery is perhaps text based? Or maybe there has been a secret content update in the last couple months?

Or maybe the oddly named ships in Galnet aren't a bug? And they have a homeworld we can find right now? Or maybe.... Maybe there really is a welcome party waiting at BP???[woah]

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Different strokes. There are a few people that love the current ADS. But most people seem to agree that it's a bit too easy.


I am definitely in the last group. But frontier doesn't seem inclined To alter the current mechanic, even though many do really want it.

Rather than argue the point, this is why I suggested making the discovery scanner pings detectable by Thargoids based on the range/power. The stronger the ping, the more likely it is to cause an alien scout ship to appear. I am assuming here that people wouldn't want to risk all of their exploration data attracting unwanted attention.

So they may prefer to keep their pings small to avoid detection. Or to just toot and scoot, and hope for the best!

We could even make the range variable and set power of the ping with same dial we use to set the range of the normal sensors. This way we could still infinite ping or 500 Ls ping with the same ADS. Using a 500 Ls ping could allow to scan most of a system before being detected by any local aliens. While using the infinite range could bring a wing of baddies breathing down your neck.

I imagine such encounters will be somewhat uncommon in any case. But knowing that big ping could bring a rain of pain knocking at your cargo hatch door, could raise the intensity factor up significantly with each explored system. Risk vs reward

With all due respect, I think that would break the game (for me). We are already having issues with having the galaxy "populated" with wrecks on all planets. Having Thargoids in every corner of the galaxy would be simply stupid and would kill off the feeling of desolate vastness.

On the other hand, I think Allitnil's suggestion is superb!

 

[dynamicbob]

nice and simple but are frontier likley to make it overly complex or go with the elegant solution answer

 

[Ashnak]

With all due respect, I think that would break the game (for me). We are already having issues with having the galaxy "populated" with wrecks on all planets. Having Thargoids in every corner of the galaxy would be simply stupid and would kill off the feeling of desolate vastness.

On the other hand, I think Allitnil's suggestion is superb!

Quite aside from Alitnil's suggestion (which _I_ like, but it would change an established feature, which might be a no go) - the Thargoids don't need to be in every corner of the Galaxy. The background mechanics would be complicated, though:
- have Thargoids patrol/explore remote systems, just like we do
- if in system, they can see us as well as we can see them (I hope there's space on the scanner for another set of symbols...)
- an ADS honk (or the equivalent on Thargoid side, let's be fair) would be audible for several ly in every direction, with decreasing amplitude and therefore location accuracy
- based on Thargoid's location and accuracy of detection, some may come to investigate, but may need some time after the honk (for triangulation and of course travelling there)
- the same might be true vice versa, i.e. an ADS detector as a new component that will show if someone/-thing a couple of systems over is using an ADS
- two birds with one stone: if you use the current crude ADS, you'll be audible/detectable ~10 ly over. Use Alitnil's suppressed scanner, and you can only be deteced up to 1 ly away, so basically just in system (where you can be seen anyways). I could even make a good cause for the mechanics behind that, using some handwaving and signal processing, but I'm sure you're not all that interested in e.g. spread spectrum radar and stuff like that

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

....
-exploration will become more risky in the future, including both natural and "unnatural" hazards. Shields recommended . And possibly weapons [heart]!!!
...

Ahhh... I knew there was a reason why I wanted to have an armed and armoured explorer.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

[woah]

That one was a bit too cryptic to take any conclusions from.

I heard it as, there is sentient life in the galaxy other than humans, we just haven't found it yet. The part about the sentient life in the bubble was just a joke.

But space is big, and FD are slow to drop clues... or maybe we just suck at interpreting them... and FD don't seem to be in any hurry to rush us along to find this stuff.

However, as in the case of the UA and barnacles, as they get closer to the time when they want us to find them (in order to progress the story), they might start dropping more clues, until us dumb CMDRs can finally figure out where we should be searching.

 

[Scoopy Doopy]

Quite aside from Alitnil's suggestion (which _I_ like, but it would change an established feature, which might be a no go) - the Thargoids don't need to be in every corner of the Galaxy. The background mechanics would be complicated, though:
- have Thargoids patrol/explore remote systems, just like we do
- if in system, they can see us as well as we can see them (I hope there's space on the scanner for another set of symbols...)
- an ADS honk (or the equivalent on Thargoid side, let's be fair) would be audible for several ly in every direction, with decreasing amplitude and therefore location accuracy
- based on Thargoid's location and accuracy of detection, some may come to investigate, but may need some time after the honk (for triangulation and of course travelling there)
- the same might be true vice versa, i.e. an ADS detector as a new component that will show if someone/-thing a couple of systems over is using an ADS
- two birds with one stone: if you use the current crude ADS, you'll be audible/detectable ~10 ly over. Use Alitnil's suppressed scanner, and you can only be deteced up to 1 ly away, so basically just in system (where you can be seen anyways). I could even make a good cause for the mechanics behind that, using some handwaving and signal processing, but I'm sure you're not all that interested in e.g. spread spectrum radar and stuff like that

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Ahhh... I knew there was a reason why I wanted to have an armed and armoured explorer.

It's hard enough finding a system out side the tourist spots where any human has ever been and bumping into another commander is extremely unlikely. What are the chances of any Thargoid and any human ever being in the same system at the same time unless space is crawling with them. Personally, I prefer to keep combat in the bubble where I can avoid it when I want to

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A mistake i'm perfectly happy about

I know some people like the idea of triangulating and watching paralax, but for me, that's just meh. I like the super ADS, and you can pry it from my cold dead hands

Hear, hear.

Doing the parallax dance of one dot against the other dots was something that put me off exploring straight away. Only when I retried it with ADS I got hooked. Keep yer filthy mittens of my ADS!

Plus, can you imagine DW without ADS?

Best mistake Frontier has ever made [up]

 

[Mephane]

It's hard enough finding a system out side the tourist spots where any human has ever been and bumping into another commander is extremely unlikely. What are the chances of any Thargoid and any human ever being in the same system at the same time unless space is crawling with them. Personally, I prefer to keep combat in the bubble where I can avoid it when I want to

Judging from how smuggling missions turned out, they would just magically spawn right behind you every time you activate the ADS...

 

[Ashnak]

It's hard enough finding a system out side the tourist spots where any human has ever been and bumping into another commander is extremely unlikely. What are the chances of any Thargoid and any human ever being in the same system at the same time unless space is crawling with them. Personally, I prefer to keep combat in the bubble where I can avoid it when I want to

There will have to be many assumptions about the probability of running into another CMDR in different regions of the galaxy. But assume, just for the sake of argument, that the chance of running into another ship (human NPC or Tharg) is a constant of 1:10,000 for any non-special system (e.g. Sgr A* would be special). In the lower density regions (distance to the nearest systems >10 ly), that wouldn't change. If you're in the higher density regions inside the arms, with let's say 10 systems within a 10 ly radius, you could get a 1:1,000 chance of another ship to show up after a couple of minutes after the honk, looking what the noise is about. If you get closer to the core with 1,000 systems in a 10 ly radius, you might get a 1:10 chance to see a visitor within a couple of minutes....

Of course, if you're jumping into a Tharg colonized system, things would het up much faster.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

you might get a 1:10 chance to see a visitor within a couple of minutes....

Of course, if you're jumping into a Tharg colonized system, things would het up much faster.

Way too high if you ask me.

Just consider: if the size of the core is 15,000*15000*2000 ly, that equals 4.5E+11 according to Mr Excel.
Divide that into cubes of 10*10*10 ly, you can fit a whopping 450 million cubes into that volume. If you consider there is one hostile thargoid ship in every 10th, it means 45 million Thargoid patrolling ships_evenly_spread out.

It just won't add up and breaks the immersion. Even after the arrival of Thargoids, seeing other spaceships away the human and thargoid the bubble, or around the battlefront (i.e. the human-thargoid bubble highway) should be a freak accident.

 

[Ziljan]

I imagine such encounters will be somewhat uncommon in any case. But knowing that big ping could bring a rain of pain knocking at your cargo hatch door, could raise the intensity factor up significantly with each explored system. Risk vs reward

With all due respect, I think that would break the game (for me). We are already having issues with having the galaxy "populated" with wrecks on all planets. Having Thargoids in every corner of the galaxy would be simply stupid and would kill off the feeling of desolate vastness.

On the other hand, I think Allitnil's suggestion is superb!

I realize it's the Internet, but please read the underlined parts. .

I like Allitnil's solution too, but it might involve far more complex programming than a simple 0.2-1% chance to spawn Thargoids with an ADS ping (depending on the power of the ping). Trying to keep it simple, balanced, and interesting, with a measure of player choice involved. Allitnil's solution to the ADS is great, but it's still a passive solution imo. Otherwise it's very good.

Exploration is far too passive atm. We need more player agency within the mechanics themselves, and without rewriting the book on ED if possible. But I'm not opposed to a necessary rewrite.

 

[Ziljan]

I heard it as, there is sentient life in the galaxy other than humans, we just haven't found it yet. The part about the sentient life in the bubble was just a joke.

But space is big, and FD are slow to drop clues... or maybe we just suck at interpreting them... and FD don't seem to be in any hurry to rush us along to find this stuff.

However, as in the case of the UA and barnacles, as they get closer to the time when they want us to find them (in order to progress the story), they might start dropping more clues, until us dumb CMDRs can finally figure out where we should be searching.

Well iirc, DB said fairly recently after the barnacles were discovered that what could be found has been found. Maybe that was only regarding the UA mystery? Or maybe that quote is out of date by now?

Idk, it seemed such an offhand comment and Ed's complete lack of response made it seem like that didn't necessarily mean that "they" are currently in the game. Or whether he was really referring to new possibilities in 2.1 and beyond that he had already referred to with that "weapons/defense" comment.

Would love to be wrong here. Maybe he meant that as soon as we find sentient life (already in the game) then we will start needing defensive capability in deep space because "they" will either become aware of us too, or they will cease hiding, etc.