Whist I completely agree with you that Elite could do a better job of allowing group administration (Poor Mobius must have a really awkward time navigating through groups of 10K+ members, I don't see why Elite could realistically offer in-game Fleet management tools, as again, it doesn't have fleets in-game.
In game fleet management tools
- Thread starter Vicktore Beskor
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Whist I completely agree with you that Elite could do a better job of allowing group administration (Poor Mobius must have a really awkward time navigating through groups of 10K+ members, I don't see why Elite could realistically offer in-game Fleet management tools, as again, it doesn't have fleets in-game.
You are a good example of what people dont like. You dont get to call yourself leader of the Earth Defence Force. We have a force for that and its called The Federation. And no, you dont get to call yourself Uber-Admiral with special rights either. You're not going for a sandcastle, you want Trump Tower. Some find it obnoxious.
People don't own stations, unless they are heroes from the novels. Governments own stations. 10k players are not a government, they are a rebellious flash mob to be put down by the iron boot of the Federation for wanting to leave the cradel of holy capitalism.
But hyperbole aside, I always have the problem of these ideas being game-y in the "reality" of the Elite Universe. A minor faction owns or co-owns a station with others, that have the subjects number in the tens or hunderds of thousands. Okay, let's assume your 10k pilgrims do raise the billions of credits to buy a Coriolis. Let's assume it can move at a snail's pace and after a year or two it crosses the star ocean to your new homeworld. Let's assume you put it together like an IKEA table. Then what?
Who's gonna run your station? Or did you also purchase another few thousand people who will work on that station. Or do you assign half of the playerbase to permanently put their ships in storage and serve as crew on the coriolis? What about the homeworld below? Where do the inhabitants of that world come from? Did you also import a few thousand people to terraform, work the land, produce food, water, electricity? Do your group of 10k people pay all their wages, or do you make them slaves?
What about system security? Will your 10k people also serve as your version of System Authority? Where do you get the extra ships from for commerce? Because with a ragtag band of 10k pilots you sure as ain't building space ships.
These are the things I think about whenever this topic pops up. And these are the things that make me not want things like this in the game as it currently stands. Because it's just so game-y, it's not even funny. But that is just my personal opinion.
TBH, if a player group wants to "own" a station or even a system, then, broadly speaking, I think that we should let that happen. I don't think that it should be allowed in already established systems, so, say, taking control of the SOL system or suchlike that have established background, but there's blah blah number of systems in the universe, it's not really going to crimp my day if some of them are player led.
I don't want to see your tag in the game. I'd never heard of your group until this thread and I'm not interested in it as a player organisation. If they add tags and I can turn them OFF, then I am okay with the idea however.
Hmmm. I kind of want some of this, as long as it's tied to minor factions, and nobody can control which faction i can support.
So...
1) Yes, if by fleet its actually Minor Faction. So ship decals for the faction, and when someone targets you it shows who you are aligned with. If your minor faction is in a state of war with another, then you are automatically hostile with each other.
2) Some sort of coordination tool for members could be good. Like a message board or mail, but suspect this is not likely even in the long run, and external tools, sites, channels will remain the way.
3) Like wing chat but covering a lot more members, could be ok if the game architecture can scale for it. Text shouldn't be insurmountable, but with P2P, a voice channel would be more daunting, unless FD channeled everything through a central server... don't think they will go for that.
4) Nope, certainly don't want that. If i want to work for Alioth Indeps then i will work for them. I'd just like to be able to coordinate better with other CMDRs who work for them as well.
If we view Fleets as subsets of Minor Factions, so you can have multiple fleets working for the same faction, then sure, like with wings, you could assign members to the fleet and dismiss them, as long as it doesn't stop other fleets working for the same faction, although then, its up to those different fleets to communicate with each other (or not!) to decide on more global strategies. Otherwise you could have different fleets supporting the same faction working against each other unintentionally (or intentionally).
The main thing is, no matter what, i have no desire to kowtow to someone who has put themselves in charge of a group. As far as i'm concerned, "Fleet Leaders" can stick it where the sun don't shine. If i'm part of a group, i want to coordinate with others, but still remain an independent pilot, not a slave following someone else's orders or face getting booted from the group.
1. Have to be a toggle - as others have said I do not care one bit about your fleet tags but I do not want to see them while I blaze my own trail.
2. You have forums and teamspeak - use them not developers time giving you tools you already have.
3. See above. Group, global and fleet chat have all been discussed before. If still in doubt... Game lore.
4. You want to have a feature in game that allows spam invites? No. Use the forums and reddit to advertise your group and gain members that way.
You have a strong sense of entitlement - you might want to re-read that EULA....
Okay now that the people that have nothing new to say have said nothing new i will continue.
And let me say THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME SO I ASK YOU TO STOP ATTACKING ME.
This about adding to the game to make it fun for all type of gamers. And to make Elite Dangerous stand out as a game.
So lets start off at where the Space Pilgrims have come to there new home. They have traveled 60,000 LY and now it is time for them to go to work. The first thing they do is to name there new home so together they decide to call it New Plymouth. Now in their new system there are a few good planets that the can anchor the Station Construction Module or SCM. There is an earth like planet as well as a metal rich planet 80% metal and 20% rock. Now this is a very important decision because where they anchor it will determined what kind of economy and commodities the system will produce.
1-Earth like - Agricultural, High tech
2-Metal Rich- Industrial, Refinery
and so on and so fourth.
So they pick the Earth Like and go with High Tech this decision will affect what kind of ship yard they can have as well as the type of outfitting they can have. now all they modules were bought from engineers back in the core worlds. A module for each station service and modules for ship types and outfitting.
So they anchor the SCM and start to fuel it and start mining for the resources needed to build the station. After days and some hard work the station is built. Now it is time to put in the service mods in first they head out again and mine resources when that done they keep going till they have the station just the way they want it.
Now this hole time Smelly Bob the Pirate King has been watching them and he hates them. Why dose he hate them i will tell you. He hates them because they are so clean and Smelly Bob the Pirate King hates clean people. So he comes up with a plan. He send back a few commanders to go and buy a OBM (Outpost Building Module) one with a large landing pad so he can land his new Cutter named the Pigsty on it . Now he dose this all in secret while the Space Pilgrims are sleeping.
Smelly Bob the Pirate King may be mean but he is not stupid. He knows if the Space Pilgrims find out they will call in the Interstellar Fuzz to stop him.
Now i want to stop here in the story so you people who read slowly can get it all. And i Hope you all understand that everything i am talking about and everyone in it are commanders not NPC's and this is all about adding tools in game for all this to happen. I know some people on this forum maybe a little slow or just stuck in their own little world and may not get what i am talking about and what i am proposing. So i am going to let this all sink in and we will take it up again later. Same Bat time same Bat channel kiddies.
And let me say THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME SO I ASK YOU TO STOP ATTACKING ME.
This about adding to the game to make it fun for all type of gamers. And to make Elite Dangerous stand out as a game.
So lets start off at where the Space Pilgrims have come to there new home. They have traveled 60,000 LY and now it is time for them to go to work. The first thing they do is to name there new home so together they decide to call it New Plymouth. Now in their new system there are a few good planets that the can anchor the Station Construction Module or SCM. There is an earth like planet as well as a metal rich planet 80% metal and 20% rock. Now this is a very important decision because where they anchor it will determined what kind of economy and commodities the system will produce.
1-Earth like - Agricultural, High tech
2-Metal Rich- Industrial, Refinery
and so on and so fourth.
So they pick the Earth Like and go with High Tech this decision will affect what kind of ship yard they can have as well as the type of outfitting they can have. now all they modules were bought from engineers back in the core worlds. A module for each station service and modules for ship types and outfitting.
So they anchor the SCM and start to fuel it and start mining for the resources needed to build the station. After days and some hard work the station is built. Now it is time to put in the service mods in first they head out again and mine resources when that done they keep going till they have the station just the way they want it.
Now this hole time Smelly Bob the Pirate King has been watching them and he hates them. Why dose he hate them i will tell you. He hates them because they are so clean and Smelly Bob the Pirate King hates clean people. So he comes up with a plan. He send back a few commanders to go and buy a OBM (Outpost Building Module) one with a large landing pad so he can land his new Cutter named the Pigsty on it . Now he dose this all in secret while the Space Pilgrims are sleeping.
Smelly Bob the Pirate King may be mean but he is not stupid. He knows if the Space Pilgrims find out they will call in the Interstellar Fuzz to stop him.
Now i want to stop here in the story so you people who read slowly can get it all. And i Hope you all understand that everything i am talking about and everyone in it are commanders not NPC's and this is all about adding tools in game for all this to happen. I know some people on this forum maybe a little slow or just stuck in their own little world and may not get what i am talking about and what i am proposing. So i am going to let this all sink in and we will take it up again later. Same Bat time same Bat channel kiddies.
Talking about personal attacks while doing the same is a bit hypocritical, dontcha think? I'm pretty sure that everyone contributing to your thread has the cognitive capacitiy to understand what you are talking about. However this forums also allows them to express their opinions on your proposal, be it positive or negative.
And honestly, now that you added this to the grand tale of what would be ye awesome game update, I'm even more inclined to say no to this. So once again, no. I don't think this would be a worthwhile addition to this game.
Ha ha, loving the irony - your OP said nothing new at all! [haha] It's just a repeat, same as the objections - what did you expect?!
Interesting, because what I took away from your OP and later comments was about adding features to make the game more fun for you.
It might help if you understand that not everyone wants the same thing. This is the persistent problem all devs face, they can never make a game which will contain all the features all players want, especially since some features will contradict features that others want.
As an aside, comments like...
... are not helpful and do not paint you in a positive light. You might want to consider adjusting your attitude if you want more positive reactions to your posts.
As for the post you just made, that bears little resemblance to your OP. Sorry, is this thread about fleet management tools or tools to colonize remote systems? Seems quite different topics.
Why is this not in the suggestions forum? if you put a suggestion for additional game elements in Dang Dis, it will get dissed.
Sorry if you found my reply a bit harsh but well... OP was not exactly a warm welcoming read to begin with but let us move forward...
I took my time. I read it slowly.. I am more confused than I was before!
60,000LY, pilgrims, new plymouth and smelly pirate bob in no way make me think of player fleet controls, Are you saying your 'fleet' is one of the lost colonies that has returned and no-ones noticed?
Do you want our help with Smelly Pirate Bob? I could send some fish to reduce the smell if required?
Sorry but I just do not see the link between the OP and this despite it being an interesting story of which I'd like to know more but can we please stick to the topic of fleets and tools?
For instance, if there was one feature from your OP that you could get which would it be? What do you as a fleet CMDR find the most needed feature?
this post I started talking about fleet management tools but i feel now it is more important to talk about how the players are going to grow in the game. If we just keep going as is and just keep grinding away with no real end game reward in sight whats the point of playing. I mean how many credit can you have and how many screenshots of suns and planets can you take. By adding in the tools that the players need to go out and create their own stories and their own new worlds. You would have a game like no other. Truly think about it 400 billion systems to go out to and make your own new world.
Now let me say that i plan on playing Elite for a long time and i would like to see Elite grow into something unique but if it keeps going the way it is i feel sad for Elite. Because i can see a day when players give up on the grind and just move on to new games. And if you don't believe me this happens in my fleet all the time. Commanders come into the game spend a few months playing, get board of the grind, then move on to new games.
If tools are add to the game that give the player ways to create their own content i feel you would find that commanders would stay in game for the long haul.
P.S. I plan to keep this thread going for as long as it take to get my point across so expect more from our intrepid Space Pilgrims and their arch enemy Smelly Bob the Pirate King
Now let me say that i plan on playing Elite for a long time and i would like to see Elite grow into something unique but if it keeps going the way it is i feel sad for Elite. Because i can see a day when players give up on the grind and just move on to new games. And if you don't believe me this happens in my fleet all the time. Commanders come into the game spend a few months playing, get board of the grind, then move on to new games.
If tools are add to the game that give the player ways to create their own content i feel you would find that commanders would stay in game for the long haul.
P.S. I plan to keep this thread going for as long as it take to get my point across so expect more from our intrepid Space Pilgrims and their arch enemy Smelly Bob the Pirate King
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Can't speak for others, but i play for the experience, not for any reward. Credits are not important to me. Speaking today to a guy on IRC who has an Anaconda after just 2 weeks of playing. Credits have become a joke in this game. As for other rewards? Well, some acknowledgement of achievements is nice, but not essential.
You say you are a content creator, so create content. Look at Distant Worlds, look at the Fuel Rats, those guys have created content and are highly positive examples, using just the tools available in game, with little or no reward for it, except thanks from other players. And all done without anyone trying to put themselves over anyone else.
In general, there is nothing wrong with wanting more in-game tools to help create stories, its great. But in order to discuss, we need to know what we are discussing. You have changed the topic... so i think some of us now are thoroughly confused.
Perhaps a mod should lock this thread, and you should open a new one, in order to pursue your new suggestion? And perhaps as Bran mentioned, it belongs in Dangerous Suggestions.
Good, Bob needs to be dealt with I fear...
Player created content is a very broad term. Lets start with defining what the possible systems would be and then talk about what would be effective, what could be delivered within a certain time frame and the benefits to all players. Also we would need to take into account content moderation - the cost of this needs to be a factor also. Engagement of players - how do you plan to get others involved in content you create? What is the reason for doing so. What are the possible exploits - how could they be countered, if at all...
An idea has to be more than just a wish - Where would you like to start?
Fair enough.
Right. But with 'all gamers' you mean 'people like myself', and with 'stand out as a game' you mean 'be more like EvE'. The words you pick are the exact opposite of what you really mean.
You will not have your own station. FD could not have been clearer on this.
See? This is pretty much the problem. You dont want people to attack you, but attacking loads of others yourself is fine by you. When you mention stuff you want, you pretend its what everyone wants. You start this topic demanding stuff claiming you are entitled to it 'as a content creator', you ignore or insult those with criticism, follow up with a rather rambling and totally unrelated post. You then claim ED will likely die if we dont follow your ideas and end by saying you'll keep going at this no matter what the rest may want. Giving people tools in a sandbox only work if people playing in the sandbox acknowledge each other, accept different people want different things and are prepared to give others the space they need. That doesnt seem to be a good way to describe your mentality so far, and thats why many people are against the more powerful tools such as station control or control over who gets to join which faction.
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