In the Beta Spirit...

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Perhaps a more productive line of reasoning would be to follow up on Morbad's suggestion that to remain competitive players would feel compelled to fit the ADS if it were available?

Just how much of an advantage could the combination provide in virgin systems?
None at all in my case, virgin systems always got completed, regardless of which system we had.
I'd hazard a guess that since 3.3 I've visited around 8,000 systems and, apart from the necessary couple of weeks in the bubble to pick up PP goodies, around 70% of those are likely to be virgin systems around Colonia.

Perhaps an equally productive line of reasoning is to accept that Frontier are designing the game they wish it to be, and that as players all we can really do is to play their game or not, as we see fit?

Very polite suggestion, this has been another interesting 'debate' but over the last handful of pages or so things have gotten a little 'play the player' - can we stop the squabbling before a mod decides it has gone too far, please?
 
...

Very polite suggestion, this has been another interesting 'debate' but over the last handful of pages or so things have gotten a little 'play the player' - can we stop the squabbling before a mod decides it has gone too far, please?

Yeah, the last handful of pages is a bit 'foggy' personally I'd have liked to have seen a moderator enter the fray and say "Order, Order" and not just jump in to close the thread.

So yeah, I agree, can we agree to be more civil to each other... please

I hold my hands up to being a bit 'spiky' recently
 
Yeah, the last handful of pages is a bit 'foggy' personally I'd have liked to have seen a moderator enter the fray and say "Order, Order" and not just jump in to close the thread.

So yeah, I agree, can we agree to be more civil to each other... please

I hold my hands up to being a bit 'spiky' recently
We can all be spikey at times. I doubt many take it to heart.
 
Tangentially related to the topic:

As to exploration being competitive, if it's tag stealing people are talking about, I can only say it has never, not once, happened to me that a system I scanned as undiscovered I didn't get first discovered by. If people are referring to the 'race' to Elite exploration rank, well that ship sailed a while back, and went up onto hydrofoils after 3.3. I got to Elite under the old system, with something over 300 million in exploration data (maybe less, was in July 2017). That took me seven exploration trips of generally two to four weeks each. Three short trips (about a week each) after the FSS was introduced netted me in excess of 500 million credits.
Oh, tag stealing has happened before the Codex, and with it, there's even more. There have been times where somebody would upload something of interest to EDSM, somebody else would find it when searching for something, they'd fly there, see there are no tags, and would get theirs there. There was at least one case in which somebody bragged about being the first to discover it. Then with the Codex, there are people now for who are actively looking for new entries there, to fly to and possibly nab. At least with third-party sites, you always had the choice not to upload before you sold, and now, finds before you last docked aren't made public; with the Codex, everything you scan gets uploaded and visible to all immediately.
So, if you care about tags in the system where you've found your stuff, it's best to drop everything and race to the nearest station.

In this sense, there is a bit of competition to exploration. Then there are also squadron leaderboards, which is actual competition... but what matters there by far the most are credits from exploration, for which the FSS is much better than the ADS ever would be.


All these debates about the FSS and its numerous shortcomings seem to miss a crucial point though: body discovery isn't where exploration gameplay should be. No matter how you dress it up, at the end, it's only "scan the thing, sell the data for credits and faction influence". Frontier to date have been reluctant to add more interaction than that, with the sole exception being scanning spaceborne life for extra traits, which rewards you... nothing. The developers could have at least added some exploration gameplay to finding surface sites, but they have gone from a terrible system (having to eyeball it, and not even knowing if what you're looking for really might be there) to a slightly less terrible one (no exploration, all you need to do is pewpew a planet and then you no longer have to search at all for exact locations).

New content of the same type will only last for so long, and Frontier have barely provided any in the first place. We need more interactions, more reasons to head out there, and more involved ones than just clicking planets in a turret view. (At their cores, both the FSS and the DSS are this.) Ironically enough, the two best tools for exploration currently in the game are... the pulse scanner for mining, and the SRV scanner.
To me, arguing about whether the FSS or the ADS would be better feels like arguing over faeces or urine. If I had to pick one, I'd still pick the latter, but given an actual choice, I really would rather go with something else than those two.

The thing is though, there is plenty of appetite for would-be explorers to head out there, just little reason to do so. Take a look at DW2. Exploration activity was double during the expedition than what it has been after it ended, according to both in-game and EDSM data. Thanks to the roster and statistics, we know that there are literally thousands of players who would head out to explore again, if Frontier would give them good new reasons to do so. That was what the expedition did. It's what Frontier will need to do... assuming they'll care about how many people will be exploring, of course. (Certainly not before the New Era(TM).)
 
It's simple. FSS is so crap that a lot of people don't like it.

Could you help quantify where on the following SI standard scale* of people "a lot" falls so that I know what you are talking about:

Nobody
Me
Some chap I bumped into in the mess called Bernard
Me, the missus and her sister
Some people I got chatting to at the bus stop
The blokes down the pub
Some people in an online forum
Most right thinking people
Nearly everyone in the country
Everybody alive
Everyone who has ever lived ever
Chuck Norris

* ratification pending
 
Remember what sherlock holms said? When all other possibilitys have been exhausted whatever remains must be the truth. Is it possible FD actually wanted to excise a portion of their community for reasons known only to them?
 
Remember what sherlock holms said? When all other possibilitys have been exhausted whatever remains must be the truth. Is it possible FD actually wanted to excise a portion of their community for reasons known only to them?

Yes, I remember that story well:

Holmes: Well Watson, as you see, I have eliminated all other possibilities and the one that remains, however improbable, must be true. So the butler did it.
Watson: Remarkable Holmes! Such ingenuity! So tell me ... why did the butler do it?
Holmes: For reasons known only to him.
Watson: Er ... so are you going to deduce why he did it? Because otherwise this makes a really crap story.
Holmes: La la la sorry Watson, can't hear you!
 
I didnt tell a story tho i asked a question. Its an invite for FD to answer really, not like im holding my breath tho. Why do you think they ignored the valid complaints? There was no good reason to remove it and there is no good reason to refuse to put it back. If the only reply is "because we dont want to" then all anybody can do is speculate about the motive.
 
Could you help quantify where on the following SI standard scale* of people "a lot" falls so that I know what you are talking about:

Nobody
Me
Some chap I bumped into in the mess called Bernard
Me, the missus and her sister
Some people I got chatting to at the bus stop
The blokes down the pub
Some people in an online forum
Most right thinking people
Nearly everyone in the country
Everybody alive
Everyone who has ever lived ever
Chuck Norris

* ratification pending
In what way would the answer be useful to your future use of the FSS?
 
Yes, I remember that story well:

Holmes: Well Watson, as you see, I have eliminated all other possibilities and the one that remains, however improbable, must be true. So the butler did it.
Watson: Remarkable Holmes! Such ingenuity! So tell me ... why did the butler do it?
Holmes: For reasons known only to him.
Watson: Er ... so are you going to deduce why he did it? Because otherwise this makes a really crap story.
Holmes: La la la sorry Watson, can't hear you!

Off Topic!
 
In what way would the answer be useful to your future use of the FSS?
A claim was made that "a lot" of people don't like the FSS. I was asking for something a bit more substantive than "a lot" because without something more concrete than that it is hard to discuss/contest the point. I used a parody as an illustration. It is my style. If you feel it is off topic I'm sure you don't need me to remind you that you are within your rights to report it.

Off Topic!
A claim was made that maybe FD wanted to excise a portion of their community for "reasons known only to them". I was asking for something a bit more substantive than "reasons known only to them" because without something more concrete than that it is hard to discuss/contest the point. I used a parody as an illustration. It is my style. If you feel it is off topic I'm sure you don't need me to remind you (again) that you are within your rights to report it.
 
Remember what sherlock holms said? When all other possibilitys have been exhausted whatever remains must be the truth. Is it possible FD actually wanted to excise a portion of their community for reasons known only to them?
A little housekeeping from time to time is healthy.
 
A claim was made that "a lot" of people don't like the FSS. I was asking for something a bit more substantive than "a lot" because without something more concrete than that it is hard to discuss/contest the point. I used a parody as an illustration. It is my style. If you feel it is off topic I'm sure you don't need me to remind you that you are within your rights to report it.


A claim was made that maybe FD wanted to excise a portion of their community for "reasons known only to them". I was asking for something a bit more substantive than "reasons known only to them" because without something more concrete than that it is hard to discuss/contest the point. I used a parody as an illustration. It is my style. If you feel it is off topic I'm sure you don't need me to remind you (again) that you are within your rights to report it.
You are unlikely to get names and addresses of each person affected, or even their email addresses, and even if you were furnished with them what would you do? write to them demanding that they fill a declaration of not playing and their stated reason? I imagine FDev are really the only ones who know who is and who isn't playing now,
not everyone I know even knows about the game and fewer care about it, of those remaining a few are playing sometimes and a few are not.

As to reporting you? I feel it's a bit silly and presumably as an adult you would see for yourself that it was off topic.
 
You can safely assume a thread like this will attract unproportionally more of those who dislike the FSS than those who feel they would have to 'defend' it. Why should the latter even bother (assuming they trust and accept FDevs final word on it)? That's why threads like this always create echo chambers - by design. The rest are mainly armchair psychologists that want to study a human anomaly - and, of course... salt harvester. 😇

We have a complaints procedure and not a contentment procedure because when it's all going smoothly nobody bothers, only when we don't like something does it get a mention, that is human nature, the discontented voice is always louder than the contented one... until it's silenced through remedy or threat.

As for the salt, well, I'm sure you've been in enough threads to know who tries the hardest with the shaker.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom