In the Beta Spirit...

So what can you do with the ADS that you can't do with the FSS, except get an instant system map?
For me at least, not wasting time using the FSS to help determine if I want to take the time to explore a system further. Personally, I don't really consider using either the FSS or the ADS to be "exploration," beyond the mechanics of game-play progression.

For me, I'd say I'd rather just have nondescript world targeting info on the ship nav. panel and HUD after the honk than have a system map at all, and likewise for the DSS for that matter. I'd rather explore systems in first-person game-play flying my ship around.

Re-implementing optional, expandable functionality similar to the ADS in this regard would be a compromise for me. For the added functionality and to not undermine the FSS, I think it's fair that it would need to use a module slot as it did previously whereas the FSS dose not use one, and to be better incorporated with the FSS. Assuming both the FSS and ADS equivalent are used together, have the targets show up on the FSS view after the honk, but without providing the detailed world information unless either using the FSS as it is now to dial and zoom into worlds or, as previously with the ADS and old DSS, fly out to worlds within range.

That being said, and sorry to say, OP, I don't think betas are generally considered an appropriate place for changing around game features, just testing the functionality of existing and added features that are already determined to be changed by that time.

Cheers.
 
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So you can fly there without using the fss.

Also can I thank you again for inspiring the fix for me. If I could gift you some arx I would but in can't so please take some in spirit. I finally have a workable solution, so no longer desperate. I just get to laugh that frontier designed a panning a clicking mechanic and thought it was good. For me, to be able to avoid the visual spoiler from the fss restored my game.
Finally someone provided an answer - thank you. But wasn't that one of the main complaints prior to 3.3, the time taken to fly to a body and then sit there and let the scan do it's work? I seem to remember numerous threads from commanders bitterly complaining about it, but then I do apparently only ever talk rubbish so I may be mistaken.

So in essence Commander, you would rather be forced to fly to each and every body in a system to discover what it is? Do you do that now with surface mapping? Did you do that for all bodies prior to 3.3? And since you don't want to be spoilt visually, I gather you didn't honk using the ADS as that would have given you all the information you didn't want to have.
 
Every time I have asked this question, Riverside only reply is' der play the game' which indicates he has no bloody idea either.
That isn't what I wrote, this is what I wrote:

Have a go at playing the game, use the discovery process in any system that's already tagged by another player, but that you have not visited before to see the functionality I'm describing.

Here's a video I recorded for a previous thread on this topic:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN_1009TZhM
Just try it in the game M00ka, or watch the video I provided. You'll see how it works.
I know what functionality I'm looking for M00ka, suggesting you test it yourself is just a way for you to see with your own eyes rather than relying on what you may perceive to be a biased source (ie my video or description).
 
I don't think it's just a marketing thing. Take a look at the Powerplay thread. The way FDEV and the community worked together was quite awesome.
And look how it turned out.
Wait for 4 weeks until you can access stuff. You don't really have to do anything for it, except the very last day, ship 1500 merits, which you have to do in increments of 10. Why not just skip that part. You need 600 Merits? costs you 6m. Give money, now go.
 
Finally someone provided an answer - thank you. But wasn't that one of the main complaints prior to 3.3, the time taken to fly to a body and then sit there and let the scan do it's work? I seem to remember numerous threads from commanders bitterly complaining about it, but then I do apparently only ever talk rubbish so I may be mistaken.

So in essence Commander, you would rather be forced to fly to each and every body in a system to discover what it is? Do you do that now with surface mapping? Did you do that for all bodies prior to 3.3? And since you don't want to be spoilt visually, I gather you didn't honk using the ADS as that would have given you all the information you didn't want to have.
Nope. I honked and used the nav panel. You should try the hack of using macro to zoom out 250 milliseconds after you've zoomed in. To see a body for the first time in the game infront of you is the only thing that's triggered a sense of exploration for me. I mean in the ship window growing bigger as you fly. Yeah personally thought the system map was an epic spoiler but I'm a little bit different and not looking for orbits.

Also being on my side of the fence means I get to ignore status quo if I don't agree. While its enjoyable to talk about topics, needing to conform to likes is dumb. Why I can't stand reddit... its an evil platform of conformity.
 
Well mechanically panning around then orbital plane (and the chaotic clusterf it turns into when a body is not on the plane) is a miserable experience on all but a ps4 controller. Its doesn't work and is actively not enjoyable, if you don't like it turns you off from playing.. or it will require months of effort to convince yourself to like it if you're like me.

Unfortunately though its a hugely complicated issue as the 1000 forum pages have proven.. its not as simple as a missile is op or something.

At a high level, you could reasonably conclude that frontier excluded some the motives for exploration, or had no-one internally or in their market research that seemed to enjoy spaceflight (which is interesting in itself). They also happened to use an unskilled hand and concluded somewhat unnecessarily that this type of gameplay should be severely hindered.. not strictly via the fss but more by limitation of removing options. Maybe the reason why its an easy target on forums is the probably is both unexpectedly stupid and trivial to fix.

The inverse factor is its become clear there's been a militant anti ADS community that may have had a hand in it. In the one communication on the topic we've had in 12 months, they did hint at this being a possibility. Again, with some more care to service other gameplay types, I am certain that everyone could have adapted to change if it was permitted more elegantly (see riversides). But it was like someone came and amputated your arm and walked off without saying anything. It wasn't just swapping one lolly for another.

EDIT: If you want an easy test case on when the fss becomes unenjoyable, go do 2-5 systems in sequence. Like you would do out of the bubble exploring.
Again, thank you for the constructive response.

Regarding the controller issue, for some reason I have no problems at all using the FSS. For your info, I am on PC, and use a HOTAS system so there is very little I need the keyboard for except when docked. For the FSS once I am in the FSS screen I use my mouse, with the buttons doing the zooming in and out and targeting if required. I find it extremely quick and easy.

I also don't follow the perceived concept of some type of anti-explorer conspiracy within FD. If there was they wouldn't have gone to all the effort to redesign the exploration mechanic and make that mechanic rather important in other aspects of the game like mining and mission running. In fact if FD were anti-explorers they would have just left the entire system as it was pre 3.3.

Regarding whether I explore or not - well sorry to say, yes I do. In fact one of my favourite things in the game is to pick a random system about 2000lys away, hopefully in a direction I haven't gone before and head out - fully FSS scanning every system I drop into as I go. Once there and have scanned the destination system, I then open the nav screen and jot down the 10 nearest systems, then one by one, go there and scan those as well. Then I head back home doing the same thing, scanning each system as I drop into it. Oh and just to preempt any comments, yes my route planner is set to 'undiscovered only' (or is it unvisited, you know what I mean lol). So yes I do regularly scan 2-5 systems in sequence, actually do a lot more than just 2-5. I can understand that some would see that as boring and tedious, can't help that. But then I find other aspects of the game boring and tedious and guess what, I don't do them nor do I complain about them incessantly and request FD change everything (not that you are requesting that Commander Karrde Sun, I do understand your point of view).

Again, thank you for the measured response.
 
That isn't what I wrote, this is what I wrote:




I know what functionality I'm looking for M00ka, suggesting you test it yourself is just a way for you to see with your own eyes rather than relying on what you may perceive to be a biased source (ie my video or description).
But I don't play like you do, and I don't want to play like you do - in fact I don't want to play this game like anyone else except the way I like playing it. Just because YOU want to play in a very specific way doesn't mean FD needs to cater exclusively to you.
 
But I don't play like you do, and I don't want to play like you do - in fact I don't want to play this game like anyone else except the way I like playing it. Just because YOU want to play in a very specific way doesn't mean FD needs to cater exclusively to you.
I have made no relevant comment about how I play and didn't question how you play. Putting the old modules back into the game is the catch-all solutions that solves the issues for every affected playstyle without disrupting those that are happy with the current situation. I was happy enough with the previous situation, I don't have a problem with the new stuff either, in the bubble.

If they are reinstated as I describe it won't affect you at all unless you chose to fit one of the modules, and I think a lot of people might do just that, they would be able to choose for themselves.
 
So you can fly there without using the fss.

Also can I thank you again for inspiring the fix for me. If I could gift you some arx I would but in can't so please take some in spirit. I finally have a workable solution, so no longer desperate. I just get to laugh that frontier designed a panning a clicking mechanic and thought it was good. For me, to be able to avoid the visual spoiler from the fss restored my game.
No need to explain to me why you want the ADS back. I understand this all too well. The problem is that you and a few others don't understand why I do not want it back. Which I explained in the past and in detail. You just ignored my objections and I'm not going to repeat myself each time this topic pops up again.

Other then that I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
I don't care. There is no insta-kill for combat, no insta-fill for mining, no insta-haul for trading, so why should there be insta-reveal for exploration? There should NOT. I have written.
To be fair here, the FSS as it is now is basically insta-DSSing for what DSSing used to be in the game.

IMO, the FSS and ADS are both a bit crap in their own ways, though the FSS a bit more so, since I have to park my spaceship and go into a weird camera view in order to use it. Oh well, to each their own.
 
Have a go at playing the game, use the discovery process in any system that's already tagged by another player, but that you have not visited before to see the functionality I'm describing.

Here's a video I recorded for a previous thread on this topic:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN_1009TZhM
I've watched this video and still trying to figure what you wanted to show, prove or disprove with it. Care to elaborate?
What you show is just how it works now: all systems previously scanned/tagged by others have their local map populated but still count as unexplored for you so you can still earn exploration rewards if you want so. What's you problem with that?
 
Finally someone provided an answer - thank you. But wasn't that one of the main complaints prior to 3.3, the time taken to fly to a body and then sit there and let the scan do it's work? I seem to remember numerous threads from commanders bitterly complaining about it, but then I do apparently only ever talk rubbish so I may be mistaken.

So in essence Commander, you would rather be forced to fly to each and every body in a system to discover what it is? Do you do that now with surface mapping? Did you do that for all bodies prior to 3.3? And since you don't want to be spoilt visually, I gather you didn't honk using the ADS as that would have given you all the information you didn't want to have.
Yes, it was one of the complaints. That somehow being forced to fly through space was a problem.
I guess enough people said it enough times in range of FDs ear for them to forget that many of their players enjoy the experience of discovery through spaceflight.

I’d be happy to have to do it again, but that’s not what we’re asking for.
The FSS is indeed an improvement over the old DSS as a body scanner.
Body scanning at a distance is indeed a very useful tool to have.

Sadly, the loss of the system overview and targettable nav panel, means that it’s also now a mandatory tool to use.
And as a bottom up incremental discovery mechanism, you are required to use it on every body in a system to obtain an overview of the system.
Except that it isn’t just an overview anymore, to get there you’ve already discovered all the bodies.

I certainly didn’t scan everything prior to 3.3, and that is largely the point. Getting the body scan was a value judgement - is it worth my time to fly out there to scan what very much looks like just another ice ball.

What we really want is the ability to make a snap judgement about a system - is it worth spending time here.
The wavelength only provides one element of that - body types.
If that isn’t your main criteria, then you’re stuffed - you need to use the FSS to find out.

There are many many systems, most of them are pretty run of the mill.
I’d like to spend my exploration time in the other systems, instead of in the blue screen.
 
What's you problem with that?
I don't have a problem with the way exploration currently works in systems that have already been tagged. I'm looking for that same functionality in all systems to be available in an optional way, so that players that don't want to use it can leave it behind & save a slot & some mass/power. The video is just showing that either method can be used interchangeably.
 
Why do people care so much about the way other's play the game?
Not sure what or who you mean but I couldn't care less about how others play their game. What I do care though is consistency. In a single player game their are all kinds of things possible like a difficult choice for instance. In a multiplayer game this would mean playing the same game by different rules - and that is an absolute no-go for any multiplayer game. According to the new rules all systems that were not tagged before, the local map needs to be populated by using the FSS. The ADS would bypass this process and thus building an unacceptable inconsistency.
I don't have a problem with the way exploration currently works in systems that have already been tagged. I'm looking for that same functionality in all systems to be available in an optional way, so that players that don't want to use it can leave it behind & save a slot & some mass/power. The video is just showing that either method can be used interchangeably.
You just refuse to accept these new rules. Your problem, get over it.
 
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