Incrementally Improving PowerPlay - Make PowerPlay Open-Only

Players in Open (and the oft forgotten Private Groups) also affect the experience of players in Solo - by design.
Players in Open can be stopped from doing what they're doing, their actions actively disrupted, you can see who they are. Again, THIS is the part you fail to understand or just conveniently forget about.

There's a clear difference between what Powerplay is and what some players want it to be - and what those players want it to be involves PvP-gating it, effectively removing it from a not insignificant subset of the player-base and actually removing it from console players without premium platform access, even though every player bought access to it as part of the base game.
I mean, there's obviously a difference between what Powerplay is and what some players want it to be. If this wasn't true this post wouldn't exist. This proposal, like every other post in this section of the forum, is a suggestion to change things. Saying "but it's always been like this" is a poor argument IMO. If you think everything should be left as it is now and Powerplay should be left to die that's okay. There's a lot of people who think differently, though.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Players in Open can be stopped from doing what they're doing, their actions actively disrupted, you can see who they are. Again, THIS is the part you fail to understand or just conveniently forget about.
Not at all - PvP is optional in all aspects of the game (apart from CQC), therefore not being able to engage other participants in the feature in PvP (if they don't want to be engaged in PvP) is to be expected in a feature that does not require players to engage in PvP.
I mean, there's obviously a difference between what Powerplay is and what some players want it to be. If this wasn't true this post wouldn't exist. This proposal, like every other post in this section of the forum, is a suggestion to change things.
Indeed. However, suggestions to change things are made by those seeking a particular outcome, often completely disregarding those who would be adversely affected by the proposed change. That those who might be adversely affected by the change voice their opposition should come as no surprise to those making or supporting the suggestion.
Saying "but it's always been like this" is a poor argument IMO. If you think everything should be left as it is now and Powerplay should be left to die that's okay. There's a lot of people who think differently, though.
I am of the opinion that Powerplay could be improved for all players without resorting to PvP-gating it.

There are probably as many different ideas as to how the game should change as there are players - it's no surprise that we think differently from each other.
 
Not at all - PvP is optional in all aspects of the game (apart from CQC), therefore not being able to engage other participants in the feature in PvP (if they don't want to be engaged in PvP) is to be expected in a feature that does not require players to engage in PvP.
And yet conceptually, this is the only mode where Powerplay actually makes sense given the inability of NPCs.

Indeed. However, suggestions to change things are made by those seeking a particular outcome, often completely disregarding those who would be adversely affected by the proposed change. That those who might be adversely affected by the change voice their opposition should come as no surprise to those making or supporting the suggestion.
If the aim is to attract the most people back with minimal outlay, FD don't have many options to cause a splash. The number of people affected is not exactly huge, since its a subset of a small number to begin with. Most chunter is coming from outside the feature from people who never play or will play it.

I am of the opinion that Powerplay could be improved for all players without resorting to PvP-gating it.

There are probably as many different ideas as to how the game should change as there are players - it's no surprise that we think differently from each other.
Until FD commit time to do that, all signs point to a minimum effort / max gain approach as demonstrated in the last proposal. Unless they can overhaul Powerplay, overhaul NPCs to be player equals in ability, cunning and oppositon there is only one way to go- and thats Open.
 
It's not only PvP. It's the economy as a whole. There isn't one. It's a mishmash of outdated and overinflated pricing.
A Player driven economy would allow free trade (put aside for a minute, exploits gold sellers etc they already exist and have websites), and self determination.
There's not much endgame it's not designed to be. But the game does stagnate once you reach a certain threshold. A Player driven powerplay bgs and economy would address alot of that.
The recent tritium market before the nerf, that mushroomed overnight is a good example of it.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
And yet conceptually, this is the only mode where Powerplay actually makes sense given the inability of NPCs.
In which case NPCs should be improved.
If the aim is to attract the most people back with minimal outlay, FD don't have many options to cause a splash. The number of people affected is not exactly huge, since its a subset of a small number to begin with. Most chunter is coming from outside the feature from people who never play or will play it.
If that's the aim, indeed. While those in favour of the proposal are quick to disregard opposition, the feature is currently there for any player to engage in at some point - to PvP-gate it would effectively remove it from players who don't find PvP to be "fun" and would remove it completely from console players without premium platform access, which I expect would pretty much guarantee that they would not engage in it once PvP-gated - which, in turn, reduces the number of potential participants. How many would start playing again or even buy the game for the first time if Powerplay were to be PvP-gated is an unknown - however if it were PvP-gated then I fully expect some players to ignore what Frontier has said and then push for Open only BGS (again).
Until FD commit time to do that, all signs point to a minimum effort / max gain approach as demonstrated in the last proposal. Unless they can overhaul Powerplay, overhaul NPCs to be player equals in ability, cunning and oppositon there is only one way to go- and thats Open.
It's not the only way to go - even if it would be the only palatable outcome for some players.
 
In which case NPCs should be improved.
And as I've been explaining, you can't- EDs NPCs are designed for mission level interaction. Since nav points are vestigial, drop zone sizes small SC is the only place for haulers with NPCs. An NPC robotically obeys a NFZ and rules, a player can break them all.

If that's the aim, indeed. While those in favour of the proposal are quick to disregard opposition, the feature is currently there for any player to engage in at some point - to PvP-gate it would effectively remove it from players who don't find PvP to be "fun" and would remove it completely from console players without premium platform access, which I expect would pretty much guarantee that they would not engage in it once PvP-gated - which, in turn, reduces the number of potential participants. How many would start playing again or even buy the game for the first time if Powerplay were to be PvP-gated is an unknown - however if it were PvP-gated then I fully expect some players to ignore what Frontier has said and then push for Open only BGS (again).
Powerplay is stuck between trying to satisfy all modes and failing at it, considering it is now 5 years old and living in the shadow of other features.

Only FD know the amount of people without a console sub- but I expect those who PvP in other games would have a sub anyway since its required. Powerplay itself will always be niche, but at least if thats well defined it actually has a purpose in the game other than to be a shop window.

Plus, there are a lot of good reasons the BGS won't go Open and FD know it and would never do it.

It's not the only way to go - even if it would be the only palatable outcome for some players.
For the scope FD are aiming for (in short its very small) its the only way possible to add anything without a major rework. It might be that there was some of the proposal not shared, but we will see.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
And as I've been explaining, you can't- EDs NPCs are designed for mission level interaction. Since nav points are vestigial, drop zone sizes small SC is the only place for haulers with NPCs. An NPC robotically obeys a NFZ and rules, a player can break them all.
I have hopes that NPCs will be updated for Odyssey - and that Powerplay might benefit from that.
Powerplay is stuck between trying to satisfy all modes and failing at it, considering it is now 5 years old and living in the shadow of other features.

Only FD know the amount of people without a console sub- but I expect those who PvP in other games would have a sub anyway since its required. Powerplay itself will always be niche, but at least if thats well defined it actually has a purpose in the game other than to be a shop window.
Better that it's a niche for all players rather than a subset of what Frontier seem to be well aware are a minority of players.
Plus, there are a lot of good reasons the BGS won't go Open and FD know it and would never do it.
It won't stop them requesting / proposing / demanding though - just as it hasn't for the last seven (well, nearly eight) years.
For the scope FD are aiming for (in short its very small) its the only way possible to add anything without a major rework. It might be that there was some of the proposal not shared, but we will see.
Indeed we will, at some point.
 
I have hopes that NPCs will be updated for Odyssey - and that Powerplay might benefit from that.
I hope so too- the problem is FD boxed themselves in leaving no room for NPCs to surprise people outside of POIs. Now that engineering is universal its the next area of consideration.

Better that it's a niche for all players rather than a subset of what Frontier seem to be well aware are a minority of players.
The issue is that its plateaued as a niche now for all players- the subset you argue against (on pure numbers of responses) outnumber the entire estimated population of Powerplay right now almost 5:1.

It won't stop them requesting / proposing / demanding though - just as it hasn't for the last seven (well, nearly eight) years.
And FD know that on this issue the people asking for it are wrong- the BGS is mechanically not about that.

Indeed we will, at some point.
Lets hope so!
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
That is impressive mental gymnastics to try and justify that the mode is not about players directly competing against one another.
There's no direct competition, or mental gymnastics, required - as players can participate in Powerplay in any game mode and one can absolutely guarantee not to encounter any players in Solo...

That some players choose to participate in Open where they can be directly opposed is their choice, of course.
 
There's no direct competition, or mental gymnastics, required - as players can participate in Powerplay in any game mode and one can absolutely guarantee not to encounter any players in Solo...

That some players choose to participate in Open where they can be directly opposed is their choice, of course.
There are indeed mental gymnastics here as, per FDEV in the PowerPlay announcement, "All week long players can perform actions to undermine enemy control over systems, fortify your territory against rivals attempting to undermine you, or prepare unoccupied systems for conquest."

These actions are directly a PvP mechanic, and allowing players to do these actions in other modes undermines the direct purpose of Power play.

The lack of critical thinking skills seems to be a qualifier around here.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
There are indeed mental gymnastics here as, per FDEV in the PowerPlay announcement, "All week long players can perform actions to undermine enemy control over systems, fortify your territory against rivals attempting to undermine you, or prepare unoccupied systems for conquest."

These actions are directly a PvP mechanic, and allowing players to do these actions in other modes undermines the direct purpose of Power play.

The lack of critical thinking skills seems to be a qualifier around here.
Apologies, my mistake - PvP is most often used to describe "in-the-same-instance" player combat. Powerplay offers indirect and asynchronous for those who participate in Solo / PGs with friends, with optional in-the-same-instance PvP for those in Open. Much like the BGS, in that respect.
 
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Better that it's a niche for all players rather than a subset of what Frontier seem to be well aware are a minority of players.
Better to be something everyone is “meh” about than something loved by a mere subset of players? I couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s infinitely better to have a wide range of activities in the game which cater to a variety of playstyles.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Better to be something everyone is “meh” about than something loved by a mere subset of players? I couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s infinitely better to have a wide range of activities in the game which cater to a variety of playstyles.
Better to remain accessible to every player who bought access to it as part of the main game, in my opinion.

The only feature that Frontier has chosen to implement that offers PvP-only gameplay is CQC....
 
Better to remain accessible to every player who bought access to it as part of the main game, in my opinion.

The only feature that Frontier has chosen to implement that offers PvP-only gameplay is CQC....
Open Only Powerplay would still be accessible for everyone and part of the main game. Some people could choose not to participate, as it happens with every other feature.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Open Only Powerplay would still be accessible for everyone and part of the main game. Some people could choose not to participate, as it happens with every other feature.
It would be inaccessible to console players without premium platform access - as they can only play in Solo. While it would remain accessible, in the same way that Open is, to PC players, it would very likely be unpalatable to those players who don't find PvP to be "fun" - in which case they'd probably not bother with it either.

The issue at hand is that all players bought access to Powerplay and can currently engage in it any game mode - and only some players would benefit from PvP-gating it to Open.
 
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