Incrementally Improving PowerPlay - Make PowerPlay Open-Only

[GloatingSwine]

Open on its own would give the possibility of that happening though. Couple that with what FD themselves came up with makes things even more likely. Even as you put it, a small chance is better than what currently happens, which is nothing.

Right, but Open already exists and most players are already in it.

A lot of the old guard plus a lot of PvP players unsurprisingly disagree.

Then why aren't they doing powerplay in open already. It's already there, they can all do it.

And if the answer is "they are", then that actually agrees with what I said, that anyone interested in doing it already is and this change would make no difference.

If you provide Powerplay with an actual reason to be (i.e. its the feature for co-op warfare) then why not? Right now Powerplay is seen as a PvE lite feature with nothing else to it.

Just making it Open Only won't make people think "it's the feature for co-op warfare" though. It's seen as a PvE feature because most of its rewards come from PvE actions, moving crates. If you want to make it the feature for co-op warfare, design a co-op warfare mode for Elite, rather than a weird pseudo-competitive Space Truck Simulator.

Until you try, you'll never know. All my own experiences have been excellent, I've run into fellow pledges, rivals, non-pledges just fine.

Then why do you need it to change? If your experiences are consistently excellent? (Or are they not, and you've had a few lucky days where something interesting happened)

And if Powers had places to properly fight over, then you'd have fluid conflicts where pockets of activity happen opportunistically. Add to that what FD have suggested and you narrow that even further.

And again, Open Only would be nothing to do with delivering that. Because most players are already in Open. If this was going to happen it would already be happening.

It all comes down to whats being contested. A quiet cycle will be quiet regardless- but its the hot ones that would be different.

Open Only won't change what's being contested though. Because most players are already in Open. If this was going to happen it would already be happening.

Well I disagree. Having the chance of coming across UM (which you can see in real time), prep races where you can destructively head off another (without having to race yourself), mess up fortification, forcing you to design and fly better, form better strategies based on what intelligence you have of the other side, adds much more than what we have now- which is faceless grind races.

And again, Open Only won't change that. These changes are nothing to do with what mode people are in and everything to do with the core activity of powerplay. It's a fedex race because fedexing is how you actually make progress.

It won't be diffuse if there is something to fight over, and if Powers shrink because fortification is harder and fortification order becomes vital (i.e. you can focus on preventing valuable systems being fortified) its adding to complexity and not taking it away (unlike now).

Even if new people simply get merits blowing stuff up in PvP conflicts with wing on wing fights over keeping places defended thats enough to make Powerplay different and offer something, as well as acting as a better limit on power size.

And again, Open Only won't change those things. Because most players are already in Open. If this was going to happen it would already be happening.

The changes you want to see will not occur if you make the mode open only. Nothing will change for people interested in doing powerplay if you make the mode open only.

Players aren't spread too widely, and the chances of two players meeting in Open is very high if you know where to look at (on PC at least, I can't talk about consoles). Man, you should have seen Aisling's expansion to Mbambiva a few weeks ago. I don't know about the imperials but the federal pvp'ers got 139 confirmed kills in all 3 platforms.

Then what are you complaining about? If the thing you want is already happening.

I wouldn't say it's a legion but there's a lof of people I know who retired from Powerplay because of the problems it has and would come back if Open Only was implemented.

I doubt that. If people wanted to do Powerplay in Open it's right there. The whole spectre of "people deviously undermining my noble efforts in solo/PG" is just that, a spectre, a mirage, because most players are in Open.

 

[FrankXjr[G911]]

Make PowerPlay Open-only.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Right, but Open already exists and most players are already in it.

Then there is no problem making it Open only, is there?

Then why aren't they doing powerplay in open already. It's already there, they can all do it.

Because it needs the changes Sandro suggested to be decent in open.

And if the answer is "they are", then that actually agrees with what I said, that anyone interested in doing it already is and this change would make no difference.

And what about those people who want more PvP style action? Open has to be enforced across the board to make the underlying structures work.

Just making it Open Only won't make people think "it's the feature for co-op warfare" though. It's seen as a PvE feature because most of its rewards come from PvE actions, moving crates. If you want to make it the feature for co-op warfare, design a co-op warfare mode for Elite, rather than a weird pseudo-competitive Space Truck Simulator.

Some of it is PvE. CZs are PvE, but the rest should have opposition, shouldn't it (as in hauling expansions, prep UM)? NPCs offer nothing to either slow or stop you.

Then why do you need it to change? If your experiences are consistently excellent? (Or are they not, and you've had a few lucky days where something interesting happened)

Maybe I was lucky? Who knows. What I'd love to see is Capo or the isolated skirmishes happen more often.

And again, Open Only would be nothing to do with delivering that. Because most players are already in Open. If this was going to happen it would already be happening.

It would, because you'd be facing the threat of ships in equal or better capability. Plus, what of those attracted to PvP battles and allowed to hunt?

Open Only won't change what's being contested though. Because most players are already in Open. If this was going to happen it would already be happening.

Yes it will. It will make it harder to haul making fortification, prep and general travel slower and potentially more dangerous. Not all of the time, but more of the time.

And again, Open Only won't change that. These changes are nothing to do with what mode people are in and everything to do with the core activity of powerplay. It's a fedex race because fedexing is how you actually make progress.

And what if you can blow up the FedEx deliveries? Slow them down?

The changes you want to see will not occur if you make the mode open only. Nothing will change for people interested in doing powerplay if you make the mode open only.

Having seen recent CGs in Open you'd see how things would be- Powerplay would have these (on a smaller scale) wherever there was an expansion, prep, UM etc. Uncapped UM especially would be a magnet because you have to respond.

 

[Khan Tannhauser]

Then what are you complaining about? If the thing you want is already happening.

I doubt that. If people wanted to do Powerplay in Open it's right there. The whole spectre of "people deviously undermining my noble efforts in solo/PG" is just that, a spectre, a mirage, because most players are in Open.

A lot of people played in Open in the battle for Mbambiva and it was so much fun for both sides, even for those who ended up rebuying. The problem here is those who grinded their merits in Solo and could not be stopped, as they were able to contribute the same without all the risk. Not to mention other activities like 5C that are conducted in Solo. If you're still asking what I'm complaining about give the OP another read, it's all there.

 

[Bashy81]

Let me preface this with while I'm very much of the opinion that Open Only would be the final nail in PowerPlay as it exists today, and I'm extremely skeptical that it'll see the benefits PP:OO proponents claim should something similar to Sandro's proposals go forward, I think it should be tried none the less. If only to finally put this idea in its proper place: six feet under.

Also, my apologies for addressing your last point first.



This is the the Blue Whale in the room. Instancing with complete strangers is rare in the best of times, even in popular CGs. Instancing with friends requires active collusion, inside and outside the game. And its extremely easy to disrupt instancing outside the game without even meaning to, just through practicing normal internet safety, or having someone in the house watching Netfilx. For Open Only to in any way be successful in it providing its proposed benefits, then PowerPlay needs to be Client/Server, not peer-to-peer.



And this, IMO, is the Elephant in the room PP:OO proponents often ignore. The basic premise behind the Power Play: Open Only proposal is essentially: "Everyone (except us) is hiding in Solo/PGs in order to be competitive." We know, from Frontier's own statements, that the majority of players play in Open. And we are expected to believe that PowerPlay attracts those more inclined towards PvP combat than the average player. And yet this cohort, which is far more likely to play in Open exclusively than the typical player, is allegedly, en-masse, avoiding Open like the plague.

Especially when it's common knowledge that "instancing sucks."

The far more parsimonious explanation is that the majority of PowerPlayers do, indeed, play in Open, and any opportunistic PvP happens because the stars align... primarily because Powerplay's current design funnels a lot of players into one or two systems during a very narrow window of time.

And if the PowerPlay cohort is, indeed, in Solo/PG because of competitiveness, then this isn't likely to change. PowerPlay, at its core, is an aggregate PvE bucket filling competition between teams. The optimal strategy in a situation like this is to avoid PvP as much as possible. Players who are seeking PvP-combat, rather than pouncing on it as the opportunity arises, isn't being a team player. The time spent doing so is far more profitably spent running Fortifications for those playing bodyguards, and undermining for those trying to blockade fortifications.

I've played games such as the one I describe above. Teams that spend all their time avoiding each other, playing a game of hide and seek where nobody is seeking. They're not a lot of fun. That's why PvP-combat games, and maps they're played on, are designed the way they are: funneling players into a couple of choke points where the action happens. Its much more fun that way.



And let's face it: one of the major reasons why PowerPlay isn't popular is because it offers exactly two activities for players to do, in a limited number of locations, while the rest of the game offers a huge variety of activities, in a wide number of locations. That won't change if PowerPlay goes Open Only. What will change is that if the PowerPlay: Open Only proponents are correct, and everyone (but us) is hiding in Solo/PG, is that Powerplay goes from having one or two choke points a week, to hundreds.

Sandro's proposal* includes winnowing that quantity down, at least for the Fortification part of the game, to eleven, which at least makes opposing Fortification possible... on paper. But in order for opportunistic PvP to become common enough for haulers to actually worry about, there needs to be at least as many PowerPlayer haulers participating as a popular CG... per power.

And, of course, undermining can still happen across hundreds of systems.



Here's the central problem: PowerPlay needs to be popular enough, and concentrated enough, for there to be a significant enough PowerPlayer base that opportunistic PvP becomes common enough even outside of local prime time to be a threat. It doesn't matter how many people a Power has on other platforms and in other regions of the world, if they don't get instanced with each other.

After all... "instancing sucks."

In the mean time, please enjoy this song by the Eagles.

__
*out of curiosity, does anyone have a direct link to where Sandro said that fortification will be changed from outgoing to incoming? I just reread Sandro's original proposal, and it didn't say that anywhere, but I know I've read it. Thanks in advance.

The general idea of his reply is that open only wouldn't solve any of the problems with powerplay because those problems aren't related to which modes the players are in anyway.

I do wish he could explain all that to Kumo, since theyve been locking-out our HQ system regularly for the last few months. If he could explain it away to them as well, Kumo might realise theyve been doing the technically impossible, and put a stop to that sort of nonsense.
Because its impossible with P2P networking and it will never work.
Theorycrafting at its finest.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I’ve always felt Fdev should do an open-only Powerplay trial run. A month or two, maybe, just to see if it’s any different. Maybe it would breathe life into an often-ignored feature. Some would complain, sure. Would they be so upset that they quit playing? Probably not. If they did, would I care? Probably not. It’s not like they had much to offer the community anyway.

Personally, I just don’t understand the draw of hauling cargo with minimal risk, for virtually no reward. What does it offer now? Special parts and some RP? Some Aisling fan fiction?

Powerplay needs a fix. Whether it’s open-only, or just making it worth our time.

As for this ‘PvP gating‘ nonsense—

Being attacked by another player is undoubtedly a PvP encounter in the most basic sense— but all you have to do if you don’t want to fight is leave. I do it all the time when hauling cargo. It isn’t difficult, as high wakes are pretty OP.

Then again, I’m not one of those shieldless trading types. Flexing on gankers is always a good time, y’all should try it.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Then there is no problem making it Open only, is there?

But also no benefit, and it locks out players who can't join Open but want to play the metagame of supporting a galactic power.

Because it needs the changes Sandro suggested to be decent in open.

Which rather suggests it needs those changes to be decent at all, and they would be far more beneficial than making it open only.

And what about those people who want more PvP style action? Open has to be enforced across the board to make the underlying structures work.

If they wanted PvP style action the current structure presents no obstacle to them getting it, all the people who want PvP style action are already able to play together in Open. Open doesn't have to be enforced at all for the people who want it to get it.

Some of it is PvE. CZs are PvE, but the rest should have opposition, shouldn't it (as in hauling expansions, prep UM)? NPCs offer nothing to either slow or stop you.

Most of it is PvE. Most of the activities across all the factions are "drive these boxes of crap from here to there", the most PvE activity Elite has outside of exploring.

Maybe I was lucky? Who knows. What I'd love to see is Capo or the isolated skirmishes happen more often.

Yep, and open only won't deliver that for you, because most players are already in open. If you want more interactions you need to concentrate the existing players, not imagine a magic future where lots of new ones suddenly spring into existence because a thing they can already do now only works in the mode they already play in.

It would, because you'd be facing the threat of ships in equal or better capability. Plus, what of those attracted to PvP battles and allowed to hunt?

Yes it will. It will make it harder to haul making fortification, prep and general travel slower and potentially more dangerous. Not all of the time, but more of the time.

And what if you can blow up the FedEx deliveries? Slow them down?

Again, you're imagining some massive surge in players for Powerplay from this change that there is literally no reason to expect would exist. There would be exactly the same number of player interactions in Powerplay if you changed it to Open Only as there are now, because there would be exactly the same number of players as there are now, spread over exactly the same amount of space and number of instances.

Having seen recent CGs in Open you'd see how things would be- Powerplay would have these (on a smaller scale) wherever there was an expansion, prep, UM etc. Uncapped UM especially would be a magnet because you have to respond.

That happened in those CGs because lots of people were interested in doing the CG, irrespective of mode. There are not lots of people interested in doing Powerplay. We can tell because they aren't doing it.

If you want lots of people doing powerplay, you have to make powerplay itself interesting. People have to want to do it first, the inherent underlying activity has to be fun to do on its own, irrespective of whether you ever meet another player whilst doing it. That's the only way you'll get people to actually do it. If it was fun to actually engage in on its own merits, then people would do it and most of them would be in Open so you would get the experience of skirmish PvP that you want from it.

That means making it intrinsically rewarding to do, so people consider it as a reasonable activity alongside all the other things they could be doing, and making it more varied so that there were more ways to actually interact with it.[/QUOTE]

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Yeah, so the problem this is trying to solve is - some powers, for some expansion or undermining ops, switch to solo/pg when the going gets too tough or there's an increasing chance of losing. This leaves the opposing power with unfairly restricted options for competing, while those in solo/pg have no such restrictions. Fair competition is thus short-circuited, leading to steady disillusionment of the opposing side, and the slow death of the mode as active communities, in particular the more experienced veterans that give so much to the team, lose interest. This frustration can be felt on both sides, since it's impossible to be certain that the other side has switched modes and is not just being wily and evasive (although there are times when it's extremely hard to believe that thay haven't en masse, and indeed careful blockade tests have been done that stretch credibility of claims otherwise to breaking point), leading to spiral of accusation and disillusionment. I would assert too that some PP groups have stronger or weaker cultures around supporting open play, and that there is evidence for this (I don't want to get into mud-slinging, just state a point). So it's not a case of people are either in open or not, equally on all sides, as a single one-time choice, but that they have the option to escape competition and bias the odds in their favour, instead of trying harder. It's basically the meta-game equivalent of combat logging, except that this time it is something we can fix via the proposal.


EDIT: These sorts of exploits can't be completely eradicated, but need to be reduced to a critical point where trust broadly prevails between opposing PP communities.

 

[Rubbernuke]

But also no benefit, and it locks out players who can't join Open but want to play the metagame of supporting a galactic power.

You need the chance of being stopped, otherwise there is no game other than racing which is dull- and one of the main reasons people find Powerplay dull week in week out.

Which rather suggests it needs those changes to be decent at all, and they would be far more beneficial than making it open only.

It needs changes to make the areas that matter in Powerplay matter. If the outcome of an expansion can be changed via combat as well as other actions, thats good, isn't it? Having one dimensional racing to win everything is the reason people don't play.

If they wanted PvP style action the current structure presents no obstacle to them getting it, all the people who want PvP style action are already able to play together in Open. Open doesn't have to be enforced at all for the people who want it to get it.

Having a mode only feature locks in a certain mentality.

Most of it is PvE.

You either gather or you move. But no NPC comes after you to try and stop you making the PvE that is present incredibly thin. Either NPCs are made much harder to fill that gap, or players do it.

Yep, and open only won't deliver that for you, because most players are already in open. If you want more interactions you need to concentrate the existing players, not imagine a magic future where lots of new ones suddenly spring into existence because a thing they can already do now only works in the mode they already play in.

Unless everyone plays to the same rules, it won't work (as is the case now). Flourishes of open give us a glimpse but can never become the norm.

Again, you're imagining some massive surge in players for Powerplay from this change that there is literally no reason to expect would exist. There would be exactly the same number of player interactions in Powerplay if you changed it to Open Only as there are now, because there would be exactly the same number of players as there are now, spread over exactly the same amount of space and number of instances.

Well, I take the indications of interest from polls and this forum. Not exactly scientific, but better than speaking on behalf of an imagined silent majority like some do.

OAs poll had 7.7K respondents and half wanted Open only. If from a 1000 players today half left but 5K joined, what would that do?

That happened in those CGs because lots of people were interested in doing the CG, irrespective of mode. There are not lots of people interested in doing Powerplay. We can tell because they aren't doing it.

Because of the mode issue not allowing for the meta game to develop- the only strategy to win today is to race harder than your opponent. With Open you can do something other than blind grind.

If you want lots of people doing powerplay, you have to make powerplay itself interesting. People have to want to do it first, the inherent underlying activity has to be fun to do on its own, irrespective of whether you ever meet another player whilst doing it. That's the only way you'll get people to actually do it. If it was fun to actually engage in on its own merits, then people would do it and most of them would be in Open so you would get the experience of skirmish PvP that you want from it.

If you find co-op combat and self defined battle plans interesting, Powerplay would be interesting. Its giving players who want combat combat in a way thats logical and consistent.

That means making it intrinsically rewarding to do, so people consider it as a reasonable activity alongside all the other things they could be doing, and making it more varied so that there were more ways to actually interact with it.

[/QUOTE]

Sometimes the gameplay of actually flying for a cause in a battle you've planned is rewarding enough. Some people want ways to be in a war that goes beyond a CZs bounds. Powerplay can be that.

 

[Taifu]

Make PowerPlay Open-only.

Loud Noises.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Yeah, so the problem this is trying to solve is - some powers, for some expansion or undermining ops, switch to solo/pg when the going gets too tough or there's an increasing chance of losing. This leaves the opposing power with unfairly restricted options for competing, while those in solo/pg have no such restrictions. Fair competition is thus short-circuited, leading to steady disillusionment of the opposing side, and the slow death of the mode as active communities, in particular the more experienced veterans that give so much to the team, lose interest. This frustration can be felt on both sides, since it's impossible to be certain that the other side has switched modes and is not just being wily and evasive (although there are times when it's extremely hard to believe that thay haven't en masse, and indeed careful blockade tests have been done that stretch credibility of claims otherwise to breaking point), leading to spiral of accusation and disillusionment. I would assert too that some PP groups have stronger or weaker cultures around supporting open play, and that there is evidence for this (I don't want to get into mud-slinging, just state a point). So it's not a case of people are either in open or not, equally on all sides, as a single one-time choice, but that they have the option to escape competition and bias the odds in their favour, instead of trying harder. It's basically the meta-game equivalent of combat logging, except that this time it is something we can fix via the proposal.


EDIT: These sorts of exploits can't be completely eradicated, but need to be reduced to a critical point where trust broadly prevails between opposing PP communities.

Another idea short of open-only - make merits earned in one mode evaporate when you switch modes. I.e. you effectively choose your mode at the start of the cycle and are incentivised to stick with it. This would counter anti-competitive mode-switching. Although it might just make people switch to solo/pg permanently in the first place, which would be counter-productive, but I'll throw it in anyway (see? It's not so easy!).

 

[Rubbernuke]

Another idea short of open-only - make merits earned in one mode evaporate when you switch modes. I.e. you effectively choose your mode at the start of the cycle and are incentivised to stick with it. This would counter anti-competitive mode-switching. Although it might just make people switch to solo/pg permanently in the first place, which would be counter-productive, but I'll throw it in anyway (see? It's not so easy!).

There are plenty of ideas. Another would be to weight merits for Open but also couple it with changing CZs to a hybrid of old NPCs and new CZ mechanics (i.e. CZs have a win state and 'end' but are still farmable). This means weighting can actually make a difference and PG AFK is curtailed. These two would synergistically work to make Open worthwhile 'as is'.

 

[GloatingSwine]

You need the chance of being stopped, otherwise there is no game other than racing which is dull- and one of the main reasons people find Powerplay dull week in week out.

But again, that won't happen without a massive influx of new players that simply aren't coming from this change.

It needs changes to make the areas that matter in Powerplay matter. If the outcome of an expansion can be changed via combat as well as other actions, thats good, isn't it? Having one dimensional racing to win everything is the reason people don't play.

Loads of community goals have one dimensional racing to deliver the most boxes with little to no NPC pushback but people do those.

Having a mode only feature locks in a certain mentality.

I disagree. I think you're conflating Open Only with direct PvP conflict. But we know most players don't conflate Open with PvP because most players play in Open and most players don't do PvP.

You either gather or you move. But no NPC comes after you to try and stop you making the PvE that is present incredibly thin. Either NPCs are made much harder to fill that gap, or players do it.

Lack of NPC resistance isn't unique to Powerplay though. It's shot through the whole game.

Unless everyone plays to the same rules, it won't work (as is the case now). Flourishes of open give us a glimpse but can never become the norm.

Everyone is playing to the same rules already, everyone has the same choice of modes.

OAs poll had 7.7K respondents and half wanted Open only. If from a 1000 players today half left but 5K joined, what would that do?

Not happen.

Powerplay isn't going to suddenly change from an activity around 10% of players do to one over 50% of players do just because you mode restricted it to Open. If 50% of players wanted to do powerplay in Open they'd already be doing it. But most players just don't want to do it at all, and won't suddenly start wanting to do it just because it's only in one mode, that they were already in anyway.

If you find co-op combat and self defined battle plans interesting, Powerplay would be interesting. Its giving players who want combat combat in a way thats logical and consistent.

If they wanted PvP combat, they'd be doing Open Powerplay already.

Sometimes the gameplay of actually flying for a cause in a battle you've planned is rewarding enough. Some people want ways to be in a war that goes beyond a CZs bounds. Powerplay can be that.

Right, but not enough people want it to make Powerplay work as a PvP combat mode with its current structure. Most players don't do PvP, we know because the devs say so. They're not going to magically start wanting it just because Powerplay goes open only.

If you want Powerplay to give the people who want PvP combat a place to play among themselves, it needs to contract and focus its existing playerbase because there isn't a vast swarm of untapped PvP players out there just waiting to be told that the thing they can already do if they want it is suddenly only available in Open.

If you want Powerplay to do the thing you appear to want, to drive PvP combat using a strategic metagame, you should be arguing for something like ditching all but three of the factions and restricting the remainder to activity in 1-3 systems at a time, so that the playerbase who want PvP combat are all in the same place at the same time.

 

[Rubbernuke]

But again, that won't happen without a massive influx of new players that simply aren't coming from this change.

How do you know? Have you been to the future?

Loads of community goals have one dimensional racing to deliver the most boxes with little to no NPC pushback but people do those.

Every week x each system they own? Powers own between 40 to 120 systems.

I disagree. I think you're conflating Open Only with direct PvP conflict. But we know most players don't conflate Open with PvP because most players play in Open and most players don't do PvP.

I'm not- its a mindset that alters how you approach simple tasks. Its gambling if I fly a max trader T-9 fortifying in Open whereas in solo I know NPCs can't touch me from the time I take off to the time I land.

Lack of NPC resistance isn't unique to Powerplay though. It's shot through the whole game.

Powerplay needs opposition otherwise its plain haul races which turn grindy since each run is exactly the same. And since you have eleven other powers competing Powerplay needs someone or something to fill that gap.

Everyone is playing to the same rules already, everyone has the same choice of modes.

No, because the most efficient mode overrides the most dangerous one.

Not happen.

Powerplay isn't going to suddenly change from an activity around 10% of players do to one over 50% of players do just because you mode restricted it to Open. If 50% of players wanted to do powerplay in Open they'd already be doing it. But most players just don't want to do it at all, and won't suddenly start wanting to do it just because it's only in one mode, that they were already in anyway.

Why? Seen the future again? People don't play now because not everyone plays by the same rules. Thats what puts people off, the fact that one mode negates Open, that players can block people who shoot at them (in a mode about interaction and a feature about conflict). Remove these inconsistencies and players who want sanctioned violence have a feature to play.

If they wanted PvP combat, they'd be doing Open Powerplay already.

No, for the above reasons. There are too many ways to play to your own rules in a competitive feature where it should be one rulset to play against.

Right, but not enough people want it to make Powerplay work as a PvP combat mode with its current structure. Most players don't do PvP, we know because the devs say so. They're not going to magically start wanting it just because Powerplay goes open only.

PvP in Powerplay is not just shooty shooty- its evasion, teamwork, support. Open only provides more opportunities for this to happen while having all modes and blocking rules dilutes those chances.

If you want Powerplay to give the people who want PvP combat a place to play among themselves, it needs to contract and focus its existing playerbase because there isn't a vast swarm of untapped PvP players out there just waiting to be told that the thing they can already do if they want it is suddenly only available in Open.

Well, there certainly seem to be players willing to try it.

If you want Powerplay to do the thing you appear to want, to drive PvP combat using a strategic metagame, you should be arguing for something like ditching all but three of the factions and restricting the remainder to activity in 1-3 systems at a time, so that the playerbase who want PvP combat are all in the same place at the same time.

And thats what Sandros proposed changes would do. Uncapped UM makes a systems UM almost infinite, meaning you have to fight back- unified fort direction makes all fortification go to a central place. Prep races are normally a single place- expansions too. Powers don't fight everyone at once, and when they do not everyone expands at the same time (if at all currently). This is enough condensing to at least try an Open only approach.

 

[Kaocraft]

Then why aren't they doing powerplay in open already. It's already there, they can all do it.

This is either ignorance or willfull misdirection of the issue and either way it disqualifies you from the conversation. If you don’t understand the bad-faith you’re displaying here, then you don’t understand this topic at all, and if it’s a trolling effort; well it’s ineffective, old hat, and embarrassing.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

There are plenty of ideas. Another would be to weight merits for Open but also couple it with changing CZs to a hybrid of old NPCs and new CZ mechanics (i.e. CZs have a win state and 'end' but are still farmable). This means weighting can actually make a difference and PG AFK is curtailed. These two would synergistically work to make Open worthwhile 'as is'.

Coupling weighted open merits with a PP mode-freeze based on a once a week (or other time period) choice would make it stronger. Seems like whatever it is, ideas need to cater for FD's lack of PP-assigned resource, and be as trivial as possible for them to implement.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

This is either ignorance or willfull misdirection of the issue and either way it disqualifies you from the conversation. If you don’t understand the bad-faith you’re displaying here, then you don’t understand this topic at all, and if it’s a trolling effort; well it’s ineffective, old hat, and embarrassing.

GloatingSwine read up - I addressed this in my post a few posts back.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Powerplay as it exists now is dying. There are way less players participating today than a year ago, and if nothing changes there will be even less in a year from now. The general idea I get from your reply is that since Open Only wouldn't solve all problems because instancing, p2p, someone watching Netflix and so on, then the best course of action is keep everything as it is. Honestly, I don't see how this makes sense and as far as I know most people actively involved in PP would disagree.

The general idea of his reply is that open only wouldn't solve any of the problems with powerplay because those problems aren't related to which modes the players are in anyway.

^^^
Pretty much this.

Powerplay, as designed, consists of two activities: ABA hauling, and combat farming. If you don’t enjoy either activity, PowerPlay, as currently designed, is not for you...regardless of whether adding the spice of potential PvP combat threats is appealing or not.

IMO, the current rules encourage stagnation, and between that, and the lack of a broad range of appealing activities, is why Powerplay is dying. Change the rules, and you break the stalemate. Increase the variety of activities, and you attract more players. But you also reduce the density of players, which isn’t conductive to generating frequent spontaneous PvP combat scenarios...

At least, not under the current Peer-To-Peer networking solution. Currently, unless players collude to instance with each other, you need about 50 players in the same location, in open, to be instanced with one stranger. You can slightly increase the odds by playing during local prime time, and of course more players play during European prime time than any other time of day, but for anything beyond that, you need to go client/server.

The best chance for the OO proponents to get the experience they want, a robust population in open doing Powerplay, is to acknowledge that 50% of a huge pie is better than 100% of a Hostess fruit pie... especially if they’re right about every PowerPlayer (but us) sticks to Solo/PGs out of competitiveness, and as opposed to fewer than 50% of PowerPlayers doing so out of preference. If that is the case, then those overly-competitive players will collude to prevent instancing, rather than promote it.

But if Frontier isn't going to do anything new with Powerplay, they slight as well go Open Only. At least they’ll get some good data for analysis later.

 

[Rubbernuke]

IMO, the current rules encourage stagnation

If the gap during and after PvE work was actually filled with something to prevent 100% efficiency, it might actually become a lot less static. Only players have that capability to stop others or dramatically slow them down enough to matter.

, and between that, and the lack of a broad range of appealing activities, is why Powerplay is dying. Change the rules, and you break the stalemate. Increase the variety of activities, and you attract more players. But you also reduce the density of players, which isn’t conductive to generating frequent spontaneous PvP combat scenarios...

I'm not against more activities, but what would they be? Missions? It has to be something radically different to the BGS otherwise people will still see it as inferior.

At least, not under the current Peer-To-Peer networking solution. Currently, unless players collude to instance with each other, you need about 50 players in the same location, in open, to be instanced with one stranger. You can slightly increase the odds by playing during local prime time, and of course more players play during European prime time than any other time of day, but for anything beyond that, you need to go client/server.

And the large fights that have happened recently are illusions? This is what PP needs- large scale actions happening dynamically but within a limited ruleset. The only way is to try and see what breaks.

The best chance for the OO proponents to get the experience they want, a robust population in open doing Powerplay, is to acknowledge that 50% of a huge pie is better than 100% of a Hostess fruit pie... especially if they’re right about every PowerPlayer (but us) sticks to Solo/PGs out of competitiveness, and as opposed to fewer than 50% of PowerPlayers doing so out of preference. If that is the case, then those overly-competitive players will collude to prevent instancing, rather than promote it.

Common rules that go beyond general play is whats needed for those who want it- Powerplay then becomes an in game CQC and properly moves out from the BGS' shadow.

 

[Khan Tannhauser]

At least, not under the current Peer-To-Peer networking solution. Currently, unless players collude to instance with each other, you need about 50 players in the same location, in open, to be instanced with one stranger. You can slightly increase the odds by playing during local prime time, and of course more players play during European prime time than any other time of day, but for anything beyond that, you need to go client/server.

What you're saying here is incorrect, the game doesn't need to go client/server. You might not be aware if you always play in Solo or in console, because it's much less populated, but instancing with strangers is perfectly possible and very likely if they're in the same region as you (EU/NA).