(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[GluttonyFang]

Despite the ambiguity of your statement, you are still merely arguing in favor of a subjectively favored kludge.

My argument is succinct and clear, a competitive mechanic demands equality examined under strict scrutiny, and I've demonstrated why the change makes sense and strives for actual equality.

Subjectivity is everything, it's not an argument until there is a sovereign, I've said this over and over.

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Hello Commanders!

Gosh, this thread built up steam fast.

I'd just like to make very clear a couple of points.

The concept of an Open Play benefit for Powerplay is purely for Powerplay, not any other aspect of play.

In addition, the benefit is *not* a personal benefit - personal rewards, such as merits, obtained through Powerplay activities would remain identical between Open Play, Private Groups and Solo Play.

Finally, this concept is nothing more than a discussion point right now. There are no guarantees that we will move forward with it, or when we would implement it if we do decide it's a good idea.

Thank you Sandro, was wondering how derailed is this thread going to get.

 

[Asp Explorer]

The concept of an Open Play benefit for Powerplay is purely for Powerplay, not any other aspect of play.

In addition, the benefit is *not* a personal benefit - personal rewards, such as merits, obtained through Powerplay activities would remain identical between Open Play, Private Groups and Solo Play.

Urm Sandro - what mechanic do you propose to actually implement a benefit for Powerplay in Open?

 

[Jypson]

Hello Commanders!

Gosh, this thread built up steam fast.

I'd just like to make very clear a couple of points.

The concept of an Open Play benefit for Powerplay is purely for Powerplay, not any other aspect of play.

In addition, the benefit is *not* a personal benefit - personal rewards, such as merits, obtained through Powerplay activities would remain identical between Open Play, Private Groups and Solo Play.

Finally, this concept is nothing more than a discussion point right now. There are no guarantees that we will move forward with it, or when we would implement it if we do decide it's a good idea.

not any other aspect of play.

(big sigh of relief) [praise]

*Edit -

Gosh, this thread built up steam fast.

There was only 89 of us creating 4x the number of replies. Storm in a Tea Cup one might say

 

[GluttonyFang]

How about CGs would they not be the next step on the potential open buff request? ( not arguing with you it's just a complaint which comes up time to time)

CG to me isn't a competitive mechanic, it's meant to bring the community together. There is no opposition bar to fill but only progress bar, thus I don't see why it would validly receive "open buff."

 

[Faybs]

Hello Commanders!

Gosh, this thread built up steam fast.

I'd just like to make very clear a couple of points.

The concept of an Open Play benefit for Powerplay is purely for Powerplay, not any other aspect of play.

In addition, the benefit is *not* a personal benefit - personal rewards, such as merits, obtained through Powerplay activities would remain identical between Open Play, Private Groups and Solo Play.

Finally, this concept is nothing more than a discussion point right now. There are no guarantees that we will move forward with it, or when we would implement it if we do decide it's a good idea.

So the incentives are purely for role playing then? If I do this in open, my power benefits more?

 

[GluttonyFang]

I actually don't disagree with you here - playing the PvE PP mechanics to oppose other players doing the same thing is a form of PvP. However, it is not an overt form of PvP, it is hidden from view in many ways, apart from monitoring the stats and positions of each power from one cyce to the next. It doesn't even compare, in my opinion, to even playing chess or any board game as a form of PvP, let alone Elite. You can participate in PP and NEVER ever see another player, irrespective of the mode one players. When I dabbled in PP, I played it for weeks - principally in open - and never saw more than a handful of players the whole time - and then only when they were in stations. Simply due to the matchmaking I would expect. Not exactly significantly different to playing PP in solo or a private group, apart from when I was docked. So why incentivise playing it in open when playing it in open, for many (most?), will outwardly be no different to playing it in solo or a private group anyway?
.
Furthermore, by far and away the majority of time people discuss PvP, here or in any other game, they are discussing overt, player-on-player, direct combat, NOT something indirect like PP. While PP has PvP undertones as you describe, for all intents and purposes all most people see are the PvE mechanics overlying that. So as far as most people will be concerned it's PvE, especially as combative PvP - the very thing MOST people envisage when someone talks about PvP - has actually very little to do with PP in the majority of circumstances.

Pk is not PvP, it is a part of PvP, a mere aspect to it. The overall mechanic of PP remains as a PvP mechanic. Not seeing players in Open very often is precisely due to the unequally incentivized modes under competitive examination of the modes, now that there is actual equality, we will start seeing more players.

Seeing little players and the impossibility of seeing players are two different stories.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

I think it will make PP better, a lot of clans and groups left PP precisely because they felt stupid grinding knowing that there are people grinding against them and there is not a chance that they can do anything about it. This is bringing the needed balance to a the competitive mechanic known as Power Play.

I'm new to power play. Is it unbalanced badly? Like is there a specific faction which is manipulated from the shadowy reaches of solo that is head and shoulders more powerful than any other? I haven't done much pp but all of the factions appear more or less balanced. Faction rewards on the other hand..

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commander Asp Explorer!

Urm Sandro - what mechanic do you propose to actually implement a benefit for Powerplay in Open?

An idea I have been mulling over is to boost the success values of Powerplay activities: expansion, fortification, undermining, possibly preparation.

For example, handing in a voucher that would normally add one success to a system's fortification value would and give the player a single merit, would instead add two two successes to the fortification value, even though the Commander would still only receive one merit.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I'm new to power play. Is it unbalanced badly? Like is there a specific faction which is manipulated from the shadowy reaches of solo that is head and shoulders more powerful than any other? I haven't done much pp but all of the factions appear more or less balanced. Faction rewards on the other hand..

It's bad because there is literally no way to stop fifth columning, and most people play in private/solo so every faction is pretty much hiding behind private/solo mode because it is rational to do so. It's irrational to be in Open and to be competitive at the same time. Save a few valiant Cmdrs who are willing to bite the unequal bullet and deal with the inequality.

It's bad, I've been a coordinator for 5 month straight for a faction most hated by all and got attacked by pretty much over half of the PP factions. I know how bad it is.

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(big sigh of relief) [praise]

I think I gained a few hours of sleep in my life @_@

 

[Commander Biscuit]

It's bad because there is literally no way to stop fifth columning, and most people play in private/solo so every faction is pretty much hiding behind private/solo mode because it is rational to do so. It's irrational to be in Open and to be competitive at the same time. Save a few valiant Cmdrs who are willing to bite the unequal bullet and deal with the inequality.

Yeah there's no way to stop them but is PP unbalanced badly?

 

[Faybs]

It's bad because there is literally no way to stop fifth columning, and most people play in private/solo so every faction is pretty much hiding behind private/solo mode because it is rational to do so. It's irrational to be in Open and to be competitive at the same time. Save a few valiant Cmdrs who are willing to bite the unequal bullet and deal with the inequality.

It's bad, I've been a coordinator for 5 month straight for a faction most hated by all and got attacked by pretty much over half of the PP factions. I know how bad it is.

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I think I gained a few hours of sleep in my life @_@

Until the thargoids arrive, yours is the official bad guy faction....

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Yeah there's no way to stop them but is PP unbalanced badly?

An imperial citizen would tell you it's just fine and an alliance commander would burst out laughing.

 

[EUS]

Hello Commanders!


The concept of an Open Play benefit for Powerplay is purely for Powerplay, not any other aspect of play.

I'm usually a laissez-faire kinda guy, if implemented this would not be acceptable to me.
Parity for all aspects of all game modes.
Unfortunately for everyone, it seems that the minority who cry the loudest and are heard the most.
I used to think the expression "squeaky wheel gets the grease" meant a bad outcome.
How wrong I was.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Hello Commander Asp Explorer!

An idea I have been mulling over is to boost the success values of Powerplay activities: expansion, fortification, undermining, possibly preparation.

For example, handing in a voucher that would normally add one success to a system's fortification value would and give the player a single merit, would instead add two two successes to the fortification value, even though the Commander would still only receive one merit.

This move you're considering is going to favour the larger "clans" who can easily organise and dominate the game. Whilst you are mulling this over would you also look at the in game communication tools ? An easier way to communicate with people from your power would help ease the tension of the people who normally play alone*


*Edit: and those who would like to team up but find it difficult finding people. Not everyone reads forums

 

[Jypson]

Yeah there's no way to stop them but is PP unbalanced badly?

That's what I'm curious about as well. I feel like the argument has been akin to Groups / Solo all choosing the same power and trying to game the system by not being in Open.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Yeah there's no way to stop them but is PP unbalanced badly?

Well let me tell you this, you pick the difficulty yourself.

When I was around (not very clear how it is now):

Easy mode: Aisling/ALD/Patreus/Li

Moderate mode: Winters/Hudson/Mahon

Hard mode: Antal/Torval

Insanity mode: Archon

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I'm usually a laissez-faire kinda guy, if implemented this would not be acceptable to me.
Parity for all aspects of all game modes.
Unfortunately for everyone, it seems that the minority who cry the loudest and are heard the most.
I used to think the expression "squeaky wheel gets the grease" meant the outcome for the mouse was horrible.
How wrong I was.

As long as you don't put up actual arguments for your reasoning, I don't see what you are trying to accomplish by throwing out statements without supportive reasoning.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

I'm usually a laissez-faire kinda guy, if implemented this would not be acceptable to me.
Parity for all aspects of all game modes.
Unfortunately for everyone, it seems that the minority who cry the loudest and are heard the most.
I used to think the expression "squeaky wheel gets the grease" meant the outcome for the mouse was horrible.
How wrong I was.

Yes this has been seen to happen repeatedly in other games.

Players that play in solo that participate in PP are not just playing in solo and participating in PP, they are actively hiding and manipulating the events of the game on purpose. I find this a very odd assertion.

Those that are inclined to risk themselves in open do so with that as its own reward = pvp. Yet they make it sound like being in open is some grinding misery. Perhaps they are pve players in the closet?

Well let me tell you this, you pick the difficulty yourself.

When I was around (not very clear how it is now):

Easy mode: Aisling/ALD/Patreus/Li

Moderate mode: Winters/Hudson/Mahon

Hard mode: Antal/Torval

Insanity mode: Archon

I'll have to give PP a shot now I've got a decent ship for it. But as long as all players are given equal opportunities in the game it's looking balanced to me. I would hazard a guess than any disparity in faction power comes mostly from factions being ignored due to crappy rewards. Not many roleplayers in gaming nowdays, everyone is min-maxing.

 

[Asp Explorer]

For example, handing in a voucher that would normally add one success to a system's fortification value would and give the player a single merit, would instead add two two successes to the fortification value, even though the Commander would still only receive one merit.

Thankyou for the reply Sandro - the idea is all well and good - but what would prevent CMDR's amassing vouchers in Solo (which would have equal value to them as players), heading to their destination system, landing, logging off and back into Open - and then selling off to increase their Power success? (for the bonus given to the power in Open)

I think this may have the opposite effect of what you are intending

 

[GluttonyFang]

Until the thargoids arrive, yours is the official bad guy faction....

Hey, at least I get to boast I'm the PP hard mode coordinator for 5 months straight that might be returning if the changes are implemented.

 

[GJ51]

My argument is succinct and clear, a competitive mechanic demands equality examined under strict scrutiny, and I've demonstrated why the change makes sense and strives for actual equality.

Subjectivity is everything, it's not an argument until there is a sovereign, I've said this over and over.

Methinks you doth protesteth too much.

Your bias favoring Open Play is clearly evident and you cleverly try to couch those arguments as if they are somehow really an objective plea for "equality."

You have the same options as other players to select any mode you'd like to play in. How does it get any fairer than that?

The fact that you favor one mode having more impact on the BGS than another is hard for me to reconcile as anything but subjective.

FD cannot start favoring one mode over another or tweaking different things in different modes without breaching its original decisions regarding the equality of play in all modes.

I'm not arguing for or against any mode. Just stating facts.

 

[askavir]

Pk is not PvP, it is a part of PvP, a mere aspect to it. The overall mechanic of PP remains as a PvP mechanic. Not seeing players in Open very often is precisely due to the unequally incentivized modes under competitive examination of the modes, now that there is actual equality, we will start seeing more players.

Seeing little players and the impossibility of seeing players are two different stories.

Wrong.

Seing few players in open is due to the fact that open has been slowly degenerating into a toxic game environment for the past year.

I would love to see much more people in open, but you won't bring them back by throwing a bunch of peanuts around. People don't play Solo or Mobius for benefits, they do it because they don't enjoy playing in what open has been slowly becoming. They do it to have their trucking, or exploring, or whatever they do in peace, to enjoy themselves playing the game in a manner that is enjoyable for them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame you or even your group. I actually like reading what you say, regardless of not always agreeing you strike me as reasonable person and your groups fits into the lore and mostly plays by role-playing rules.

Its not your fault. Its FD's fault. And honestly, they asked for it.

They always looked the other way while open slowly degenerated into a snake pit where all of the potential loss and consequence was beared by the same group of players (the "victims"). And now open player numbers are dwindling and alarms started to sound, and they want to bail out open by throwing a few peanuts around, and skimping on their promise that the game would have the same rules across all modes.

No player who left open did it for incentive reasons. They left because they were not enjoying the game in open. They will keep not enjoy it, if the only change is some powerplay bonuses.

It won't work. And it will blow up in their face.