Interdiction Disruptor - new defensive module idea

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
If its that dangerous, then you chose a different ship. I'd ask exactly why you value profit over destruction given other, faster ships exist that are much more survivable.
None of the transport ships can survive the current balance. There is no choice. Once you're interdicted, that's pretty much it - or a high waked, which makes it tedious, repetitive process.

Also because I'm of an opinion that a game should be well balanced. Which currently isn't the case, when it comes to gankboats (again, there is no sacrifice or real consequences).
 
None of the transport ships can survive the current balance. There is no choice. Once you're interdicted, that's pretty much it - or a high waked, which makes it tedious, repetitive process.

Also because I'm of an opinion that a game should be well balanced. Which currently isn't the case, when it comes to gankboats (again, there is no sacrifice or real consequences).
A Cutter thats well armoured, has decent shields is very survivable, not to mention age old HW techniques (and proper defensive flying). Plus what about wings with someone flying a combat vessel?

or a high waked, which makes it tedious, repetitive process.
Why? You are alive- its a mistake to think that every situation has to end with you getting your way.

I'm not against balance, but I want balance via complexity that rewards flying skill, good judgement, planning and teamwork. Rather than paper over the cracks I'd prefer the actual problem addressed.
 
- in the vast majority of systems the module is taking up space and not doing anything at all useful ... which means, like a shield generator or some HRPs or flying a defensible multirole rather than a deathtrap freighter ... it's just making you less "efficient" without giving you any benefit towards your PvE goals. Which means like the other "don't die instantly to a gank" outfitting options already available, the people who die will be the people who didn't fit it.
The last person to yell at me on inara was an enemy powerplay pledge I killed in one of my power's systems, accusing me of griefing for blowing up their shieldless, unarmed T9.

With my shielded, armed T9.
 
A fully engineered T9 with the best non-PP shield and quite a bit of cargo space sacrificed for the said shield AND some additional HRP/MRP is still severely handicapped in comparison to a fully engineered gankboat, which does not need to go for ANY compromise and additionally doesn't really have to care about the absolutely laughable C&P.
I don't use my T9 in any place where I'm expecting to see player opposition. I have other ships with slightly lower cargo space that are much more survivable in hostile environments. If I'm expecting to see "Fully engineered gankboats" then I'd revisit my decision to be in that system at all, much less without a fully engineered (what does that phrase even mean? "Fully engineered" is something people keep trotting out but it could mean anything from lightweight to overcharged and anything in between) ship of my own.
 
The last person to yell at me on inara was an enemy powerplay pledge I killed in one of my power's systems, accusing me of griefing for blowing up their shieldless, unarmed T9.

With my shielded, armed T9.
people yell at you on Inara? The world has really gone down the crapper.

I am very anti griefer, but you have to know that pledging is like painting a huge bull's eye on your back. Especially when you roam in enemy territory. The hint is also in the large red "HOSTILE" cockpit display...
 
people yell at you on Inara? The world has really gone down the crapper.

I am very anti griefer, but you have to know that pledging is like painting a huge bull's eye on your back. Especially when you roam in enemy territory. The hint is also in the large red "HOSTILE" cockpit display...
Yeah, I even sent them a nice, clear "this is archon space, begone imperial" but apparently that wasn't clear enough or roleplaying enough. Dude even told me he'd reported me to fdev, though obviously nothing came of it since the community safety team are gonna take one look at that report and see one powerplayer killing an enemy powerplayer in one of their own systems and toss the report in the round cabinet on the floor.
 
They're not - however the obvious bias towards the player-interdictor has been baked in from the beginning - so some choose to completely avoid playing a mini-game that is rarely, if ever, won by the targeted player.

The issue is that the bias is extremely unpredictable and appears largely latency dependent. The tunnel game itself likely has no bias, but latency compensation does.

The solution to the aggressor advantage is to take another look at how the tunnel game and latency compensation interact. Then, once the underlying mechanisms are sound, the possibility for contextual biases from equipment could be looked at.

Here's an idea: Make the Interdictor module completely fair. Both parties should wobble at the identical rate (literally copied). The one more capable of centering their aim wins.

That's almost certainly how it's implemented. There is no way Frontier is intentionally biasing the interdiction minigame toward the attacker; it's a side effect.

Latency compensation, which is mandatory for a game where people on the opposite sides of the planet are expected to be able to reliably instance, favors the 'shooter'. In any exchange the attacker's perspective takes precedent, even when all involved are attackers. Everyone sees a slightly different scenario, but if you see a hit on your opponent, your opponent is hit, even if this would be impossible from their perspective. The tunnel game is more one-sided, once it starts it has a fixed aggressor and a defender and the the former takes precedent to prevent lag from being a shield, or just because that's how it works everywhere else. Unfortunately this means the aggressor sets the pace and their wiggling can only be reacted to, often far too late, if pings are high...it's how the tunnel game can end very abruptly for the defender, even when it still looks like they have a chance from their end.

Now I don't know the specific details of Elite: Dangerous' latency compensation, but I know it exists (I've experienced all kinds of shadowrams and desyncs that are highly typical of it...and the fact that I score hits on other CMDRs when I see my shots land, no matter what they see, is hard proof of it), and it there are only a few rational ways it could have been implemented. Of course, in a peer-to-peer game, everyone is a client and a server (though instance hosts get extra server duty), but this doesn't change the basic aspects of what latency compensation is or what it's doing.

Some information on latency compensation, both in general and specific implementations:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kIgbvl7FRs

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn269cI3hd8

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EwaW2iz4iA

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyCQtUFOJmA
 
A fully engineered T9 with the best non-PP shield and quite a bit of cargo space sacrificed for the said shield AND some additional HRP/MRP is still severely handicapped in comparison to a fully engineered gankboat, which does not need to go for ANY compromise and additionally doesn't really have to care about the absolutely laughable C&P.

And the sacrifices already mean you're at exactly 0% chance for any sort of competition if it's a trading CG situation.

The current mitigation is not enough and it's severely biased towards the aggressor in my opinion.
The issue is that the bias is extremely unpredictable and appears largely latency dependent. The tunnel game itself likely has no bias, but latency compensation does.

The solution to the aggressor advantage is to take another look at how the tunnel game and latency compensation interact. Then, once the underlying mechanisms are sound, the possibility for contextual biases from equipment could be looked at.



That's almost certainly how it's implemented. There is no way Frontier is intentionally biasing the interdiction minigame toward the attacker; it's a side effect.

Latency compensation, which is mandatory for a game where people on the opposite sides of the planet are expected to be able to reliably instance, favors the 'shooter'. In any exchange the attacker's perspective takes precedent, even when all involved are attackers. Everyone sees a slightly different scenario, but if you see a hit on your opponent, your opponent is hit, even if this would be impossible from their perspective. The tunnel game is more one-sided, once it starts it has a fixed aggressor and a defender and the the former takes precedent to prevent lag from being a shield, or just because that's how it works everywhere else. Unfortunately this means the aggressor sets the pace and their wiggling can only be reacted to, often far too late, if pings are high...it's how the tunnel game can end very abruptly for the defender, even when it still looks like they have a chance from their end.

Now I don't know the specific details of Elite: Dangerous' latency compensation, but I know it exists (I've experienced all kinds of shadowrams and desyncs that are highly typical of it...and the fact that I score hits on other CMDRs when I see my shots land, no matter what they see, is hard proof of it), and it there are only a few rational ways it could have been implemented. Of course, in a peer-to-peer game, everyone is a client and a server (though instance hosts get extra server duty), but this doesn't change the basic aspects of what latency compensation is or what it's doing.

Some information on latency compensation, both in general and specific implementations:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kIgbvl7FRs

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn269cI3hd8

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EwaW2iz4iA

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyCQtUFOJmA
Yeah I think certain people are just bad at the game. Submit and highwake, it’s that simple.
 
Excuse me, I don’t think I was clear enough.

@rootsrat
Learn to submit and high wake. If your ship can’t handle being in instance with a hostile player for less than 15 seconds, save it for somewhere where you won’t encounter other players. Or just play solo or PG. Or just win the interdiction mini game- I can effectively ignore any interdiction I want because I fly at half throttle and am half decent at the mini game.

Thank you for your time.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Excuse me, I don’t think I was clear enough.

@rootsrat
Learn to submit and high wake. If your ship can’t handle being in instance with a hostile player for less than 15 seconds, save it for somewhere where you won’t encounter other players. Or just play solo or PG. Or just win the interdiction mini game- I can effectively ignore any interdiction I want because I fly at half throttle and am half decent at the mini game.

Thank you for your time.
Completely missed the point mate
 
Completely missed the point mate
Disagreeing with your point is NOT missing it.

You have several ways to counter interdiction, some before it happens, some after. A successful interdiction is far from a death sentence- and a successful interdiction has never been easier to avoid.

The fact you disagree shows how inept you are at utilizing what's already available in game. It's literally that simple.

My shieldless type 9 can survive more than 80% of interdictions- if you cant do the same in other ships, there's an issue there on your end.
 
The other aspect of this is....why is it a module?

All ships have a hull mass, mass lock factor along with interdictors having grades and engineering. Why not fiddle with that and create a ratio that sets the parameters for the tug of war?

Mass lock factor (or total hull mass) could act in the defenders favor if the attacker has a smaller ship (which can compensate with a higher grade interdictor). You also in parallel make interdictors very power hungry.

So for our T-9 it would take a larger vessel to dominate it out of SC, or a smaller one with a energy sapping interdictor.
 
A Cutter thats well armoured, has decent shields is very survivable, not to mention age old HW techniques (and proper defensive flying). Plus what about wings with someone flying a combat vessel?


Why? You are alive- its a mistake to think that every situation has to end with you getting your way.

I'm not against balance, but I want balance via complexity that rewards flying skill, good judgement, planning and teamwork. Rather than paper over the cracks I'd prefer the actual problem addressed.

Clipper would be my go-to. Decent cargo space, fast, and can beat interdictions. Had some fun with a griefer some months ago, taunting them in my Clipper and beating their interdictions.

However, i say bring back the Energy Bomb. Sure, griefers would love it too, but it would certainly make interdicting people a much more thrilling experience! After all, its called Elite Dangerous not Elite Safety.
 
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