Interdiction Dodgers

[Reithan]

The only sensible way for traders to assess how well they did is to consider how much they lost. And in a nutshell, this is where we have to make sure that traders can *if they wish* alter their ships to mitigate the loss caused by loss. Tough shields, armour, point defence, weapons - these all make a difference. For sure it's no guarantee that the trader can defeat the combat ship, but - if we get the numbers to the right place - it may well mean the difference between some hull/module damage and complete ship loss, depending on the equipment and *how well* it's used.

That seems like it would be good for traders, with encounters usually ending in some % of damage, and only death in extreme cases, however, for the attacking ne'er do well, non-combat ships that only even 'lose' (die) in the most 'extreme' cases, would seem functionally invincible and would be incredibly frustrating. Also, if you're pirating for credits, damaging the trader without him dropping cargo or dying doesn't actually earn you anything, and, in fact, may lose you money to interdiction damage, fuel and ammo costs.

I'd say that possibly we should look into AI to make sure that the more experienced Commanders can feel challenged, without destroying newer players. I think that there is perhaps room to look at rewards in addition to credits, to minimise the perception/reality that trading is the path of least resistance to progression. I think we can look at improving AI goals and activities in super cruise (for example having AI more interested in players based on how the player acts, maybe AI that can use wakes). We will also have lots of interesting situations to monitor when player wings and other features come on-line.

I'd like to see, rather than a increase in AI difficulty across the board, a 'living' system in which high-bountied pirates and murderers would end up being pursued by bounty hunters & police forces (both AI & player), and AI encounters should scale in difficulty based on the pursued player's skills, ship & history. To be honest, doing the same with traders would be great too, with the AI and player threats able to 'adjust' and hunt high-skilled, better-equipped players with more expensive haulage more aggressively than others.

I added some thoughts on the interdiction system in another thread, as well (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=115097).

 

[Senik]

I just want to confirm something. You say that it's impossible to escape interdiction - could you clarify? Interdiction is more or less skill-based, with both pilots having a very similar chance. There are differences between ships, but they tend to counter each other out in different ways. If something is occurring that's messing this up, it's likely a bug that can be looked at.

Not sure if it's just coincidence, but I got interdicted last night for the first time since 1.1 went live. I was flying a well equipped combat Eagle back toward a station, after doing some loadout testing at a nav beacon in solo mode. About halfway to the station, traveling at well over 1C in supercruise, I got interdicted by an NPC Adder. The escape vector appeared, then instantly shot off to the upper left at incredible speed, and then about half a second later I had lost the interdiction and got pulled out of supercruise. I literally had no time to react, and this was the first time I've ever lost the interdiction mini game -- ever. And in an Eagle no less (I usually fly traders). This really seemed like a bug, and in this case escaping interdiction literally was impossible.

The NPC turned out to be Dangerous ranked and wanted, so I stuck around to engage him for the ~40K bounty. Not sure what he unloaded on me, but in about 2 seconds he completely took down my class 3A shields and destroyed my cockpit. I'd really like to know what loadout that Adder had, so I can pull that trick on other people... It wasn't DF missiles, as there was no incoming missile warning. Anyway, was a fun wakeup call and I did manage to destroy him and make it back to a station with 10 seconds of backup life support left. Still felt like I almost fell victim to a series of glitches though.

On a total tangent (and apologies if this was already mentioned as I didn't read the whole thread -- only found it searching for some kind of info on what is the effect of larger class/grade FSD interdictors), I think an interesting solution to entice traders into open play would just be to add some kind of multiplier to trading profit. There are a million ways to implement that, so I'll leave that discussion alone, but higher risk / higher reward seems like a fairly natural consequence. Especially with wings, if you are needing to funnel some of your profits into paying off escorts.

Anyway, cheers, and I hope if there's a new (or lingering) interdiction bug you guys find it and squash it quickly.

 

[fademist]

CONCORD? anyone?

they can stay away from here lol

 

[Dominico]

Its an interesting analogy, but it its not entirely accurate. The real world privateers did not attack any random ship that they came accross and not just any pirate could claim to be a privateer. No, in order to be classed as a privateer and keep your name 'clean' you had to only attack ships belonging to enemies of the state. For example Queen Elizabeth would not have tolerated Drake had he been pirating English merchant ships, but because he focused on Spanish ships and because England was in a cold war with Spain then he was not considered a pirate.

So how this could work in ED would be for example if a 'pirate' had say an Imperial leaning and only attacked traders with a Federation loyalty then perhaps the Empire would not consider them criminals....

Lol it works like that already.... :/

 

[Marikc0]

Your inability to grief is the least of anyone's worries.

 

[Highlightning]

In the multiplayer games other people affect each other hence people care when the game is being exploited.

Bullseye. Been playing PvP games for years and years, too, and some of these exploits plus the teeny slap on the wrist for blowing an innocent trader (or whoever) out of the sky should have a verrrry heavy penalty. Griefers, especially those who hack, are totally game breaking in my opinion. I simply won't play a PvP game where griefers have free run of the scene. Like a guy I read about here recently who hacked his game and made himself invulnerable and would sit inside space docks blowing up other players. Intolerable.

 

[NewYears1978]

Thought this topic was about Space Baseball

 

[Highlightning]

Thought this topic was about Space Baseball

Cricket, mate. Cricket. It's one giant perplex metaphor for Cricket.

 

[NewYears1978]

Cricket, mate. Cricket. It's one giant perplex metaphor for Cricket.

My mistake, easy one to make and my apologies.

 

[Reithan]

He wasn't hacking, he was just using chaff. They just nerfed chaff because of that so it no longer affects station guns.

 

[drpaul]

If the game is tweaked so it is impossible to escape from an NPC interdiction, with the proper planning and equipment, then the game is done. Because griefers will find ways to interdict and destroy as much as possible, and being destroyed without having made a mistake in gameplay is not fun. This is a game and when it only becomes fun for griefers it's over. Because griefers don't grief griefers - they just want to grief YOU.

The implication is that being a pirate of players should not be a profitable career because if the game is configured in such a fashion that it is, griefers will equip themselves and destroy folks who have played the game with due dilligence just because they can. Again, that is not fun for the player and they'll just stop playing.

 

[Reithan]

If the game is tweaked so it is impossible to escape relatively easily from an interdiction, with the proper planning and equipment, then the game is done. Because griefers will find ways to interdict and destroy as much as possible, and being destroyed without having made a mistake in gameplay is not fun. This is a game and when it only becomes fun for griefers it's over. Because griefers don't grief griefers - they just want to grief YOU.

The implication is that being a pirate of players should not be a profitable career because if the game is configured in such a fashion that it is, griefers will equip themselves and destroy folks who have played the game with due dilligence just because they can. Again, that is not fun for the player and they'll just stop playing.

Why does it need to be EASY to escape interdiction? Why not just possible? Why not MODERATE in difficulty? Simply put, PvP exists in this game, and pirate (yes, even of players) is listed as a possible 'career' path, so yes, those players need a chance at being successful too, and not just 'a snowball's chance'. If you don't think you can handle that, FD has been kind enough to provide you with not just one, but TWO possible options to avoid them (group play AND solo play). By the way, not only pirates use interdiction, bounty hunters do, too.

 

[Venree]

Your inability to grief is the least of anyone's worries.

how is being a pirate griefing ? piracy is supported by the game ... and by the devs ... now if he was constantly killing the same person over and over sure ... but ... pirates ? why all the hate ?

 

[drpaul]

Why does it need to be EASY to escape interdiction? Why not just possible? Why not MODERATE in difficulty? Simply put, PvP exists in this game, and pirate (yes, even of players) is listed as a possible 'career' path, so yes, those players need a chance at being successful too, and not just 'a snowball's chance'. If you don't think you can handle that, FD has been kind enough to provide you with not just one, but TWO possible options to avoid them (group play AND solo play). By the way, not only pirates use interdiction, bounty hunters do, too.

I'm fine with playing solo and group as a solution. But if NPCs encounters result in unavoidable death, that isn't going to be great. As to PVPers, that subject has been done kazillions of times on these forums and I don't mean to repeat it.

 

[freehotdawgs]

So many people cry griefer, but how many people have actually been griefed? I've been playing since beta and have never been griefed. Getting killed by a player for no reason isn't griefing. Getting killed by different players multiple times in a row for no reason isn't griefing. Getting killed by the same player relentlessly for no reason even when you try to leave the area is griefing. Piracy isn't griefing. the fact that any player can activate solo mode, fly to a completely different area and then go back to open play is the solution to griefing. Also, add the person onto your ignore list. It's a really easy solution.

 

[Gannopen]

For all the threads in this conversation, the only thing I think FD do need to add, is a wanted multiplier, like they do each time you fire inside a no fire zone. The more times you hit a clean player, the higher your' bounty goes. I've been destroyed by human pirates and it bugs the hell out of me, but it's part of the game. Yes it hurts to lose your' ship but ultimately, play sensible. Keep enough cash spare to pay the insurance for a replacement.

 

[AnonGuyy]

The underlying problem is that there is no significant penalty for murder in this game.

You can attack anyone and then simply pay of the puny fine...

Griefing is allowed by design...

They REALLY have got to get a grip on this game.... Killing an innocent trader should result in a wanted status being posted *permanently* at every system within 100ly

This.

Instead of permanent, the person who willingly kills "clean"/innocent/people not marked for kill/etc., should be marked at "Hostile" in any system owned by a Galactic Power. All of them except Anarchy.

With no way to pay it off either because a few hours ago someone told me they lost 55m. This would make people who want to be pirates either be forced into Anarchy systems or actually be very careful in their craft, as you would have to be for something like that.

 

[Flappers]

This.

Instead of permanent, the person who willingly kills "clean"/innocent/people not marked for kill/etc., should be marked at "Hostile" in any system owned by a Galactic Power. All of them except Anarchy.

With no way to pay it off either because a few hours ago someone told me they lost 55m. This would make people who want to be pirates either be forced into Anarchy systems or actually be very careful in their craft, as you would have to be for something like that.

Erm, this thread is months old.

Since then, the bounty system has been revamped. Once you have a bounty, you can't pay it off - which was the biggest problem for a lot of people.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

perhaps they think you are a griefer who will just open fire and destroy their ship and cargo without even speaking to them or making demands. Just happened to me, tried to evade, had to submit and was met with a wall of lead, no demands and no warning, destroyed the ship and a full load of rares.

i will be exploiting the disco bug in future.

Be nice if we could issues bounties on commanders ourselves.

That's not griefing and well within the rules and lore of the game. NPCs will also attempt to murder you for no reason - do you combat log for them?

Combat logging is an exploit and simply not excusable.

 

[Maxulic]

Wanting to see other players and wanting to be interdicted are different things. Though IMHO anyone that wants to see other players without the risk of player interdictions should play in a PvE group like Mobius instead.

I am playing in Mobius but the thing is that you don't get to see a lot of players even in busy systems. I started the game in Open because I didn't know any better and I actually never had any bad encounter for a week so I thought that it wasn't as bad as I feared and I enjoyed seeing a lot of people flying around stations, it made the universe really alive which Mobius is simply not. Till I got blasted into dust by a pirate for no reason (even didn't ask for cargo) so I looked for a private group.

What I wanted from Open was a living world where I could see ships and say these are real people, not a place where I would see hours of farming wasted by some jerk with nothing better to do. If people don't value what you worked for, I won't value their pleasure and will happily pull the plug if I ever come back to Open.