This would skip work on technical and design aspects for sure, but it would mean FDevs spends month on creating interiors for what propose? Looking at things?
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Interiors Vs FDEV's Escape Argument
- Thread starter Mav359
- Start date
So just to be clear, I (one of a few) gave the reason above why ships in ED can't move or turn with people not strapped down but this doesn't mean I'm against ship interiors. I'm not, in fact at other times I've given many gameplay reasons for ship interiors, and there are many.
The only reason this matters is because ED seems to make this big deal over no artificial gravity control for the sake of realism and in the process actually ends up breaking more laws of physics that simply saying "yeah small scale inertial control/gravity".
I think it's comical, genuinely comical that the company that gave us Engineers and their idea of game play that came with it openly say they don't want to do ship interiors unless they can create interesting gameplay for it.
The only reason this matters is because ED seems to make this big deal over no artificial gravity control for the sake of realism and in the process actually ends up breaking more laws of physics that simply saying "yeah small scale inertial control/gravity".
I think it's comical, genuinely comical that the company that gave us Engineers and their idea of game play that came with it openly say they don't want to do ship interiors unless they can create interesting gameplay for it.
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For Odyssey, a static ship is still useful:
Have the 'bunk' in the ship as your respawn point should you die on foot. Have a suit locker as the means of changing suit (or perhaps editing loadout).
Disallow suit change (or perhaps loadout editing) in SRV.
Ensure AI will hunt down hostile ships that land or are landed in range to stop players landing too close at no risk.
It becomes a dropable base that you can either put close (at some risk) or far away (at some inconvenience).
First we'd need some FSD-related handwavium that would allow for the FSD bubble to mitigate/dampen the worst of the g-forces, while still leaving significant risk.
We'd probably need to define multiple interior states, e.g.: (i) active flight, (ii) supercruise (iii) parked in safe orbit, (iv) boarding submission (v) landed.
Captain can only leave his seat in (iii), (iv) and (v).
Captain controls whether other crew is able to leave their seats at own risk (including during (i)). It should be risky gameplay: crew dies/injures easily.
(ii), (iii) and (v) could be used for the more slow-paced gameplay: extended passenger/diplomacy/smuggling missions and crew loyalty missions, science/research/crafting gameplay, repairs, decontamination gameplay, varmint hunting, ship tweaking, basking on the observation deck.
(i) should just be used as 99% change to insta-die, with maybe some high-reward manoeuvres to pull.
(iv) should be a contained "safe" state which allows the crews of two ships to duke it out.
We'd probably need to define multiple interior states, e.g.: (i) active flight, (ii) supercruise (iii) parked in safe orbit, (iv) boarding submission (v) landed.
Captain can only leave his seat in (iii), (iv) and (v).
Captain controls whether other crew is able to leave their seats at own risk (including during (i)). It should be risky gameplay: crew dies/injures easily.
(ii), (iii) and (v) could be used for the more slow-paced gameplay: extended passenger/diplomacy/smuggling missions and crew loyalty missions, science/research/crafting gameplay, repairs, decontamination gameplay, varmint hunting, ship tweaking, basking on the observation deck.
(i) should just be used as 99% change to insta-die, with maybe some high-reward manoeuvres to pull.
(iv) should be a contained "safe" state which allows the crews of two ships to duke it out.
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In Supercruise, technically the ship doesn't move at all.
Supercruise uses the ship's Frame Shift Drive to compress space in front of the ship and expand it behind the ship, essentially moving space around that ship. This negates any time dilation, as the ship is always travelling less than the speed of light relative to its "frame" of compressed space.
elite-dangerous.fandom.com
Supercruise uses the ship's Frame Shift Drive to compress space in front of the ship and expand it behind the ship, essentially moving space around that ship. This negates any time dilation, as the ship is always travelling less than the speed of light relative to its "frame" of compressed space.
Supercruise
Supercruise is a method of faster-than-light (FTL) travel within star systems. A ship that is in supercruise can use the Frame Shift Drive to travel at speeds between 29.9 kilometers-per-second to 2001c superluminal (faster-than-light) speeds. It allows a ship to cross entire systems in a...
elite-dangerous.fandom.com
In Supercruise, technically the ship doesn't move at all.
Supercruise uses the ship's Frame Shift Drive to compress space in front of the ship and expand it behind the ship, essentially moving space around that ship. This negates any time dilation, as the ship is always travelling less than the speed of light relative to its "frame" of compressed space.
Supercruise
Supercruise is a method of faster-than-light (FTL) travel within star systems. A ship that is in supercruise can use the Frame Shift Drive to travel at speeds between 29.9 kilometers-per-second to 2001c superluminal (faster-than-light) speeds. It allows a ship to cross entire systems in a...
Exactly what I was getting at! This can easily be used as an explanation for creating playable interior states.
It is still a lot of work only for a glorifyed locker. But if we were using it, they might expand it, right? ;-)
Pretty low-hanging fruit really from a development sense. I kinda discussed it elsewhere, but I'm not actually a particular advocate for full modular interiors - I think they'd cause way more headaches than necessary. I do think that each ship should have it's unique 'crew area' designed. This can be used as the spine for fleshing things out later if desired/required.
Always!
Hey am I mistaken or do I remember you from that X-Rebirth forum thread where we made the Teladi Outpost playable through gamefile edits?
No idea, can hardly remember stuff these days, might as well just have been....what do you mean with "make TO playable through gamefile edits"? You mean in the VR version? Because I'm pretty sure that being a DLC for XR, it was already rather playable as it was in XR.
It's definitely a long while back! I remember the two DLC pirate factions just zerging absolutely everything in that area of the map (without incurring Teladi aggro even though their outpost was being roflstomped 24/7), until some forum legend figured out how to edit the game files to make the factions be at war with each other and cause the Teladi to actually shoot at the pirates as well.
Good times.
Oh, that was definitely not me then! 
The only thing I remember about Teladi Outpost is getting rather annoyed at most of my traders going there never to come back again, then switching all of my trading fleet to Lyramekrons, escorted by a healthy fleet of Taranis on permanent duty around their ring station. Problem solved, lots and lots of wrecks.
The only thing I remember about Teladi Outpost is getting rather annoyed at most of my traders going there never to come back again, then switching all of my trading fleet to Lyramekrons, escorted by a healthy fleet of Taranis on permanent duty around their ring station. Problem solved, lots and lots of wrecks.
The arguements against Ship interiors seem to boild down to:
1) It'd get boring after a while.
- This comes from the game devs that gave us Engineering and suit upgrades in their current form. I hardly think boring gameplay is the impediment they claim.
2) It's too difficult / too much work.
- Firstly, doing work is what they're getting paid for. It's software development, it's not quantem physics. Secondly, it's not too difficult as the basis for this already exists within the mechanics of the game. There's a plethora of ways to get around the "blockers" I've seen raised on "layers".
3) There's no demand for it.
- Yeah, clearly. LOL.
4) There was no time.
- This update took 2 years (aparently), about the same as the base game. I don't buy this as an excuse. Also, even if it were true, Odyssey didn't have to be rushed. Did the game of thrones writers get jobs at FD or something?
5) There's no gamplay, look at EVE.
- Yes, when you make a module that has no gameplay, then it will indeed have no gameplay. However that doesn't need to be the case. Braben's own vids from the 2012 pitch prove that ship interiors are a fantastic base for gameplay.
The only reason I think that they didn't come is that FD want it in the bank for "quieter" years. They know it'll be a hot seller and will drive up their share price. Ship interiors will most likely be Braben's pension fund for when he decideds to sell FD and retire.
1) It'd get boring after a while.
- This comes from the game devs that gave us Engineering and suit upgrades in their current form. I hardly think boring gameplay is the impediment they claim.
2) It's too difficult / too much work.
- Firstly, doing work is what they're getting paid for. It's software development, it's not quantem physics. Secondly, it's not too difficult as the basis for this already exists within the mechanics of the game. There's a plethora of ways to get around the "blockers" I've seen raised on "layers".
3) There's no demand for it.
- Yeah, clearly. LOL.
4) There was no time.
- This update took 2 years (aparently), about the same as the base game. I don't buy this as an excuse. Also, even if it were true, Odyssey didn't have to be rushed. Did the game of thrones writers get jobs at FD or something?
5) There's no gamplay, look at EVE.
- Yes, when you make a module that has no gameplay, then it will indeed have no gameplay. However that doesn't need to be the case. Braben's own vids from the 2012 pitch prove that ship interiors are a fantastic base for gameplay.
The only reason I think that they didn't come is that FD want it in the bank for "quieter" years. They know it'll be a hot seller and will drive up their share price. Ship interiors will most likely be Braben's pension fund for when he decideds to sell FD and retire.
The only logically sound argument I've ever seen used against ship interiors is "I'm not personally interested in ship interiors". The rest has been 100% fallacious nonsense.
And its not a very strong argument at that.
I don't think ED is ever going to have entering a ship the same way that Star Citizen does, I think it'll always be a click menu like we have now. I feel the easy way around this would be that when you board your ship from the menu you're given the option to board to seat (fast and quick, no one has to bother with the interior if they don't want) and board to interior.
Once you're onboard you can move to the seat if you want (or do other stuff, myself and others have gone over and over the huge number of gameplay options this could bring) and click to sit and it would probably just look like it does now, fade to black, shuffle around sound effect and boom you're back in old skool ED mode.
The Disembark menu would probably have the same thing, disembark to interior, disembark to exterior. If the ship is in normal flight or you're not landed you can't disembark and it's greyed out (as it is now anyway).
Basically, they are separate instances. Other than building the interiors and the gameplay around them, this is actually very very easy for them to do. It's already in the game with Odyssey.
That is all simple.
The complicated parts are -
That's the biggest barrier to ship interiors. But then they also woke up one day and said "telepresence but on the other side of the galaxy for multicrew" so I mean...
Once you're onboard you can move to the seat if you want (or do other stuff, myself and others have gone over and over the huge number of gameplay options this could bring) and click to sit and it would probably just look like it does now, fade to black, shuffle around sound effect and boom you're back in old skool ED mode.
The Disembark menu would probably have the same thing, disembark to interior, disembark to exterior. If the ship is in normal flight or you're not landed you can't disembark and it's greyed out (as it is now anyway).
Basically, they are separate instances. Other than building the interiors and the gameplay around them, this is actually very very easy for them to do. It's already in the game with Odyssey.
That is all simple.
The complicated parts are -
- There's a good argument that in FSD, as others have said, you don't need to worry about inertia. If they do allow movement around the interior during FSD that requires zero G movement; that's not a bad thing (one of my fave Star Citizen moments was the first time I got a mission to repair a comms satellite in orbit around a planet, I had to leave my cockput, EVA over to the satalite, enter it, move around inside it in zero G, fix it and then get back to my ship) but would require some work for inside the ship and then obviously if ever movement outside a ship was allowed even more work would be needed
- The biggest problem is how you handle multicrew/players (telepresence isn't a problem, they can't leave seats at all). If the pilot is on the ship and then you enter the ship in interior mode (either from exterior or when in FSD), if the pilot takes off/leaves FSD you're basically dead, it's as simple as that, you're a mess on the wall, the only ways around that I can think of are -
- Don't allow the pilot player to take off/leave FSD, there's griefing issues here
- The whole no inertial/gravity control in ED thing is dumb for the reasons I've stated before, just say "there is small scale inertial control in ED but it doesn't scale up easily and is limited to player size ships", it makes more damn sense anyway given the speed ED ships fly and stop at
- They just ignore that part, it's not physics works in ED anyway, your head would fly off the second you tried to ram someone and if it didn't your brain would smash into the inside of your skull and your eyes would leave your head, not even joking. No helmet can stop that from happening and when you start saying "but genetic engineering and special flight suits you're at the point where you're breaking so many laws you may as well have just said "yeah, small scale inertial control"
- I'd prefer they didn't do this and just went with "inertial control"
That's the biggest barrier to ship interiors. But then they also woke up one day and said "telepresence but on the other side of the galaxy for multicrew" so I mean...
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I agree with most of what you say, but I'd hesitate to claim it's purely down to laziness on FDev's part. That's just going to breed resentment from any developers reading the forums. They were clearly working very hard to get Odyssey out in time for their internal deadline, after which it was all hands on deck to patch it before it sank. And patch it they have. My guess is that the blue circles are a placeholder that was implemented under time pressure, and something they'll revisit once things settle down.
I really do hope the actual programmers and artists don't feel personally responsible for what the company has made them deliver.
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It'd give people a reason to use those smaller ships, wouldn't it? I don't see the argument against ship interiors, game play wise. It's almost as if FDev are making up excuses to cover up for a technical limitation, or lack of commitment to development time.