That's exactly what I was about to say - the very notion of Elite D being a reboot of anything other than Elite itself is just pure nonsense.
Is Elite Dangerous a reboot of EVE Online?
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That's exactly what I was about to say - the very notion of Elite D being a reboot of anything other than Elite itself is just pure nonsense.
i played eves 14 free day trial and i have to say i enjoyed it til i got blown out the sky and ended up with nothing. the one thing eve did amazingly well was the jump graphics, i absolutly loved how they looked when you see the planets shoot close to your screen. i even go onto youtube just to watch fraps footage of people jumping
EVE is badly over-priced. The other main flaw is the training system. Click and wait for a month. I didn't feel like I was working towards that achievement.
Although this sounds like it invites the grind, I think that with enough options to diversify in ED there should be plenty to keep us entertained. I want to be off on some mission to drop Mr X off in a distant system and along the way hear about Mr Y that needs rescuing from somewhere nearby. Do I have time? It's a thousand credits....Or a random unspecified gamble on the reward.
Or just simply: "I feel like doing this today", and not -as EVE offers- "I have to keep doing this."
Although this sounds like it invites the grind, I think that with enough options to diversify in ED there should be plenty to keep us entertained. I want to be off on some mission to drop Mr X off in a distant system and along the way hear about Mr Y that needs rescuing from somewhere nearby. Do I have time? It's a thousand credits....Or a random unspecified gamble on the reward.
Or just simply: "I feel like doing this today", and not -as EVE offers- "I have to keep doing this."
The training system I thought was quite good - you gained access to the immidiate skills for a very short amount of time, but for the advanced you had to wait. (And the skill clocked up even when offline) It gave you a sense of your character gaining experience rather than "click - you're now a zen master!"
Over priced is relative to one's income ... I could afford to play EVE but didn't want to. That place is full of annoying pip-squeaks that as you mentioned delight in blowing you up, so unless you know what you're doing and prepare for that it's upsetting.
No, Elite: Dangerous is not a reboot of EVE but they need to ensure that the differences are clear to make people understand that.
my eve experiences pretty much comes down to having my very new corp oblitterated by another highend-many-year-old players corp after a month since they thought it was fun to gank new people, they went so far as to follow us into high security zones, using their battlecruisers and what not against our low end ships, they kept it up for a month and it was pretty much all the time they had one or more ships stationed outside our stations waiting to pounce or stalk us... in the end i just ended my subscribtion and left, too much annoyance for no fun at all
Sorry to hear about your experiences in game - that pretty much sums up why I don't play EVE .. ganking is allowed even in HiSec zones. (Makes you wonder why the devs didn't beef up local security to clamp down on this - High Security space is suppose to be safe.)
Expect Elite to be completely different
Greifers Vs "The Bugs"
This is also why I never got into Eve and Elite will be different, organised greifing ops like the one PB-DK described would be stamped on.
How could this be done? Remember that humans were not the only players in the Elite universe? Read on...
An entertaining method to do this, apart from placing an obscenely large bounty on the head of such a greifer, would be to "send" an equally obscenely large fleet of Thargoid Invasion ships after them and their assets. Now that would be fun to watch!
If they were very lucky, they just might be left with an escape capsule after it was all over
Want an idea of how it could look? Have peek at this cool vid made by Gibbon for his (as yet) unfinished Awakening mod for Freelancer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Aky_KNtprE
Expect Elite to be completely different
This is also why I never got into Eve and Elite will be different, organised greifing ops like the one PB-DK described would be stamped on.
How could this be done? Remember that humans were not the only players in the Elite universe? Read on...
An entertaining method to do this, apart from placing an obscenely large bounty on the head of such a greifer, would be to "send" an equally obscenely large fleet of Thargoid Invasion ships after them and their assets. Now that would be fun to watch!
If they were very lucky, they just might be left with an escape capsule after it was all over
Want an idea of how it could look? Have peek at this cool vid made by Gibbon for his (as yet) unfinished Awakening mod for Freelancer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Aky_KNtprE
Personally iv not had a go at EVE, but from what iv seen it just looked like an online version of homeworld. and if you think about it, there is loads of fantasy online games out there like world of warcraft and there all the same aswell
But Elite is unique! It gives you a massive universe to play in, and loads more options to the game play. Playing Elite is like being Han Solo!
But Elite is unique! It gives you a massive universe to play in, and loads more options to the game play. Playing Elite is like being Han Solo!
Sorry to hear about your experiences in game - that pretty much sums up why I don't play EVE .. ganking is allowed even in HiSec zones. (Makes you wonder why the devs didn't beef up local security to clamp down on this - High Security space is suppose to be safe.)
Expect Elite to be completely different
2 different aspects here - I'm assuming their smaller corp got wardecced by the larger corp which allows them to shoot each other in highsec. Highsec ganks are usually suicide ganks done with large alpha strikes which no amount of local security can really prevent... but playing smart can (mostly). That side of it only really affects very new players and lazy/delusional players - anyone with an ounce of sense and a little bit of effort can work out how to almost entirely prevent themselves from being suicide ganked in high sec.
A large corp with experienced and highly trained pilots continuously harassing a smaller corp mostly made of new players is another matter the wardec system is a bit broken in this regard - there are plenty of merc/decshield corps who will help against this but probably out of the pocket of new players especially if their main souces of income have been cut off.
I will be honest here .. I have absolutely no idea what what you just said :S
(A lot of EVE terms which I don't rightly understand .. tried using Google and it was still just gobbledygook ... no disrespect intended of course, but thinking about it that was the other things that put me off EVE .. they might as well be speaking in Martian for the amount I understood
)I've written about this in some other thread, but for whatever reason, that thread did not get greenlighted by the mods.
There is one thing about elite and especially frontier/FFE, that i haven't seen successfully "copied" in any elite-alike.
And that is the feeling of playing in a gameworld with lifeforms and civilizations, instead of just pressing buttons and interacting with computers (that's why in i.e. the X-franchise, it always felt as if you were the only being alive in the gameworld, surrounded by computers and robots). In frontier, you browse blackboards for job offerings, and interact with people via multiple-choice menus. Heck, for the disk version, they even went as far as procedurally generating character portraits. Then there were newspapers, background lore about HUMANS in the gameworld.
All of this taken together, made it feel as if you travel inside a civilization of lifeforms.... instead of just flying around in some ship, pressing buttons, and using computers. The only game that halfway managed to give this impression was privateer, but then again, for privateer any communication felt highly scripted and of low variety, plus the gameworld was rather small.
Sadly, this one unique aspect about the elite-franchise, which hasn't been reached by any elite-alike, isn't mentioned at all in the kickstarter presentation. Instead, E4 is presented as just another "elite-alike", which indeed brings up the question, how the game presented on kickstarter, is any different to i.e. EVE Online.
Mind you, i don't think that it will actually be just like all the others. I do however think, that E4 is badly presented in the kickstarter article, because the description reads like any other generic elite-alike. It doesn't explain how E4 is unique from the rest of the pack. And that's a shame, because as i wrote above, there are unique aspects about the elite-series, that haven't been copied yet, and which have potential to expand on.
There is one thing about elite and especially frontier/FFE, that i haven't seen successfully "copied" in any elite-alike.
And that is the feeling of playing in a gameworld with lifeforms and civilizations, instead of just pressing buttons and interacting with computers (that's why in i.e. the X-franchise, it always felt as if you were the only being alive in the gameworld, surrounded by computers and robots). In frontier, you browse blackboards for job offerings, and interact with people via multiple-choice menus. Heck, for the disk version, they even went as far as procedurally generating character portraits. Then there were newspapers, background lore about HUMANS in the gameworld.
All of this taken together, made it feel as if you travel inside a civilization of lifeforms.... instead of just flying around in some ship, pressing buttons, and using computers. The only game that halfway managed to give this impression was privateer, but then again, for privateer any communication felt highly scripted and of low variety, plus the gameworld was rather small.
Sadly, this one unique aspect about the elite-franchise, which hasn't been reached by any elite-alike, isn't mentioned at all in the kickstarter presentation. Instead, E4 is presented as just another "elite-alike", which indeed brings up the question, how the game presented on kickstarter, is any different to i.e. EVE Online.
Mind you, i don't think that it will actually be just like all the others. I do however think, that E4 is badly presented in the kickstarter article, because the description reads like any other generic elite-alike. It doesn't explain how E4 is unique from the rest of the pack. And that's a shame, because as i wrote above, there are unique aspects about the elite-series, that haven't been copied yet, and which have potential to expand on.
they didn't attack us in high sec, just kept stalking us there, following us so closely that we had one or two of them hanging around our warpgates just in case we had to transition to a low sec area where they could kill us at leisure, which they gladly did to the point where we where restricted to three or four high sec systems
Guess you had autopilot on shortest routing then setting it to safest would have let you move around more than 3-4 systems without going via lowsec (tho does result in longer routes). It is one of the problems with Eve long term players can use new players inexperience to their advantage on a scale thats not possible in most games.
setting it to safest would have let you move around more than 3-4 systems without going via lowsec (tho does result in longer routes). It is one of the problems with Eve long term players can use new players inexperience to their advantage on a scale thats not possible in most games.
Elite is NOT about PVE. I mean, yeah there will doubtless be NPC/AI controlled pirates/bounty hunters/traders/police/etc.; but Elite is about the pilot, and we know that there are really three ways you can go:
1. peaceful trader, who only fights when he has to
2. Bounty hunter (white hat combateer), Going for Elite status, intentionally seeks out pirates and other bad guys to kill
3. Pirate (black hat combateer), Also going for Elite status; prays mostly upon people in group one, and the ones in group 2 who make the mistake of crossing their path.
This is a game where you can be a pirate. I myself tend to bounty hunting with breaks for exploration (trading is always done... "An empty hold means an empty head", as the saying goes). But I'd be lying if I haven't played some games of Elite as a pirate. Pirates are cool, pirates are badass. You're going to want to see a lot of people play pirates; and that's where the PVP comes in.
It would be nice, however, if there were options like many MMO's to allow people to avoid combat if they choose; Eve's system of an uber police force enforcing no pvp in certain places is one way of doing this, and not at all a bad one.
As to if it will be like EVE? They are both 3d games in space, and Elite 4 will be multiplayer. I would say the similarity stops there, though. In one, you're the pilot, your skills are what will get you to the orbital station in one piece. In EvE, it's dice rolls and choosing where to click your mouse pointer. That above all else sets Elite apart.
Combat in Elite is neither fair nor balanced. On your first run fresh out of Lave, even if you're taking textiles to Leesti, you are likely to be ambushed by a group of pirates, and they'll probably have better stuff than you, and things like missiles (which are quite often death to the roookie). You either get lucky, are very very good, or you die. The pilot's exam in Elite is a trial by fire; either you create one or become one.
You will find friends in the galaxies, but for every decent person you meet there will be dozens--maybe hundreds--of scoundrels and villains who care about nothing but the cargo in your hold; and probably would kill you just for fun regardless.
Guess you had autopilot on shortest routing then
no smarty, i knew about the autopilot, also made many false jumps and transits, none of that matter much if they are hanging out at the jump gates waiting for us...
There's a lot of misunderstanding about Eve in this thread.
It seems clear though that Elite: Dangerous and Eve Online will cater to different needs. As a C64 Elite player and a long term Eve player I can see myself playing Elite: Dangerous and enjoying it, but from what I have briefly read up until now, it won't replace Eve.
Where Eve excels is the Massively Multiplayer non-consensual PVP. Being part of a corporation which is part of an alliance of thousands of players. Owning and enhancing part of space. Wars with other alliances over ownership of that space. Being in battles with thousands of players. Winning one year, losing the next, coming back the year after.
This is what Eve is about.
If you play it as a single player game, or as a game for just you and your friends, then yes, it will suck.
It seems clear though that Elite: Dangerous and Eve Online will cater to different needs. As a C64 Elite player and a long term Eve player I can see myself playing Elite: Dangerous and enjoying it, but from what I have briefly read up until now, it won't replace Eve.
Where Eve excels is the Massively Multiplayer non-consensual PVP. Being part of a corporation which is part of an alliance of thousands of players. Owning and enhancing part of space. Wars with other alliances over ownership of that space. Being in battles with thousands of players. Winning one year, losing the next, coming back the year after.
This is what Eve is about.
If you play it as a single player game, or as a game for just you and your friends, then yes, it will suck.
Eve and Elite are very different games.
I originally started playing EVE in 2005 and finally stopped last year.
To begin with I was horribly disappointed with Eve because I was looking for an Elite-like and it isn't. I hated the point and click combat, I hated that there was no first person view, I hated all the extreme nebulosity (I like my space black and vast and star speckled) I hated that the way PVE was implemented....
However I realised it was true to it's own concept and got to really like it because you could explore and carve out a piece of the galaxy. The community was really good, very cut-throat but that is what you want from a PVP community, cut-throat and good, and surprisingly mature. Also there was a lot of personal reward in learning how to be really good at it, from trading to combat it is a game of skill and mistakes cost dearly. What I like.
By the time I finished with Eve it was a different game. I won't go into why I had stopped enjoying it but basically it boils down to that it was even less challenging and less like Elite than when it started. And I think less like it's original concept due to feature creep.
Anyway, tl;dr - I very much hope that Dangerous does not turn into a reboot of EVE, they are conceptually very different games and it would be an enormous shame if the opportunity for Elite IV to be true to it's concept were to be wasted.
I originally started playing EVE in 2005 and finally stopped last year.
To begin with I was horribly disappointed with Eve because I was looking for an Elite-like and it isn't. I hated the point and click combat, I hated that there was no first person view, I hated all the extreme nebulosity (I like my space black and vast and star speckled) I hated that the way PVE was implemented....
However I realised it was true to it's own concept and got to really like it because you could explore and carve out a piece of the galaxy. The community was really good, very cut-throat but that is what you want from a PVP community, cut-throat and good, and surprisingly mature. Also there was a lot of personal reward in learning how to be really good at it, from trading to combat it is a game of skill and mistakes cost dearly. What I like.
By the time I finished with Eve it was a different game. I won't go into why I had stopped enjoying it but basically it boils down to that it was even less challenging and less like Elite than when it started. And I think less like it's original concept due to feature creep.
Anyway, tl;dr - I very much hope that Dangerous does not turn into a reboot of EVE, they are conceptually very different games and it would be an enormous shame if the opportunity for Elite IV to be true to it's concept were to be wasted.
I honestly don't think that it will. EVE has painted itself into a corner. The hardcore love their community, love their politics and the rampant dominance that they can achieve. The devs are in a really hard place where fleshing out the environment and increasing the scope of a 'story' type gameplay will result in a dilution of the basis of the EVE 'thing', that being PVP. On the plus side it means that for the likes of DB, Frontier and Chris Roberts, there are a whole host of people that love content over a 'scifi social occasion' and damnit if we aren't getting that delivered in spades.
Being a kid of the 80's, I've played dozens of space sims including EVE. I played eve from beta and on and off until the present day. Although it is stunning game, it's quality of gameplay has dwindled and will continue to dwindle as the population continues to grow. This is down to a couple of things. Things I hope Elite will avoid altogether.
First, EVE lacks immersion. The more you play EVE the less immersive it is. It becomes a second job that requires a lot of dedication and goes so far as to remove any escapism. I play games because I want to be drawn into a world separate from RL. I want a game to trigger my imagination, not keep my blood thick with cortisol.
A second and growing problem with EVE is that of space. It used to be a decent space sim, but over the years they have shrunk space by reducing travel time further and further. This combined with a growing population has made eve just one overpopulated instance after another. Space should be huge! It should feel like an epic journey!
This leaves little more to do in EVE than to gate camp or mine. Sure, missions will keep you entertained for a while, but you quickly run through the cycle and it becomes monotonous. The rest of the game is spreadsheet bashing and offers even less immersion.
That's just my 2c, plus 10 years of eve experience. My hope is that EliteD will be developed in a way as to completely avoid these failed mechanics in EVE. This post is solely to give those unfamiliar with EVE an overview and in the hope that David and Co avoid these pitfalls when developing the multiplayer part of the game.
First, EVE lacks immersion. The more you play EVE the less immersive it is. It becomes a second job that requires a lot of dedication and goes so far as to remove any escapism. I play games because I want to be drawn into a world separate from RL. I want a game to trigger my imagination, not keep my blood thick with cortisol.
A second and growing problem with EVE is that of space. It used to be a decent space sim, but over the years they have shrunk space by reducing travel time further and further. This combined with a growing population has made eve just one overpopulated instance after another. Space should be huge! It should feel like an epic journey!
This leaves little more to do in EVE than to gate camp or mine. Sure, missions will keep you entertained for a while, but you quickly run through the cycle and it becomes monotonous. The rest of the game is spreadsheet bashing and offers even less immersion.
That's just my 2c, plus 10 years of eve experience. My hope is that EliteD will be developed in a way as to completely avoid these failed mechanics in EVE. This post is solely to give those unfamiliar with EVE an overview and in the hope that David and Co avoid these pitfalls when developing the multiplayer part of the game.
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