Is Elite: Dangerous too difficult?

[AngryAntz]

How does that work when not in a hurry works out to getting something just after the heat death of the universe? Because if I never had to touch the surface of a planet to look for mats again I'd be fine with that. It's the only reason I have anything fitted with an SRV. And every time I have to use it it's a grind.

Personally I like running around on planets, I collect mats as I go. For me collecting mats is just a by-product of whatever it is I am doing. If i feel like running around a planet and know i need arsenic, then i make sure i do so on a planet which give me a chance to get it. But yeah if you hate planets then I agree that could be a problem.

The only time it feels a bit grindy for me is when i feel like exploring and head out into the black and then the next day have to return to the bubble because i feel like hauling instead. But that is a grind of my own making.

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

If anything the complexity of elite has been made easier for us with quality of life updates that have happened over the years , did anyone have spreadsheets and database entries for where and how to find engineer materials? .. system states , factions , economy types etc ... while elite still maintains a degree of difficulty (i find it more to do with the layers of content) it certainly isnt as rough as it once was.

 

[Darth Ender]

tedious is not the same as difficult.

Needing spreadsheets is a failure of game design, not a marker of being hard.

Absolutely every single thing you do in the game is grind...by definition. You can do it over and over and over in exactly the same way and the game doesn't care. Nothing changes. Your experience in the game remains the same. That's the definition of a grind mechanic. Grind doesn't have to be a bad experience even though people only complain about them when they are.

It seemed like the intention was for your actions to impact the bgs and those changes in the bgs would alter the topography of the game and thus how everyone plays it...but systems are too close together, stations are too numerous, and factions are too evenly distributed and ships can jump way too far at a time and fdev has opened up a simple api for everything to be cataloged and easily searchable on websites for any of that to matter. So players can ignore any "local" bgs changes that may occur. Every player is basically a multi-national corporation playing global economics while Fdev is designing a game balance system at tiny national scales.

The game isn't difficult. it's not hard. You could argue things are tedious about it, but only optional things that aren't necessary to care about if what you want to do is get stupid rich so credits no longer matter. With credits not mattering, the core parts of the game collapse into meaninglessness.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Really? No GRIND?

Pray tell - how is this possible.

Seriously - HOW?

Possibly a deference in meaning. For me grinding implies negative repetitive activities, things I don't like doing but its required for some outcome that I want. There are many repetitive activities I do both in the game and IRL that I don't consider to be a grind. I enjoy doing them.

I like eating peanuts. Shelling them is not a grind for me. But if I had to shell 50 buckets of peanuts every day I would hate it.

So, to answer your question:
I play the game focusing on activities I enjoy but with moderation. I rotate activities and have fun. I buy a new ship every month two, fully engineer it. I maintain an inventory of engineering mats so I usually only need material traders to shift mats from overflowing bins. I got lots of credits and mats from ranking up to Elite Trade and Imperial Prince. Just playing the game and rotating activities you get all the mats, credits and ranks you need without god awful repetitive grinding. The game is fun to play. I have only been playing for two years, 60% exploring, 30% trade, 5% other missions, 5% combat.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Sometimes it's challenging to figure out how to do a particular activity, but once you have figured it out it's generally very easy, and sadly very repetitive.

Well put imho, there is a short learning curve but then it gets very samey real quick i.e. the gameplay loops are like numerous mini games

 

[Greasetrap42]

Well put imho, there is a short learning curve but then it gets very samey real quick i.e. the gameplay loops are like numerous mini games

Well yes, or you can focus on how to do it better. How to maximize your efforts so you don't have to do so many repetitive gameplay loops. You can keep doing it the same way 500 times, or you can find better methods to achieve the same thing.

Example:
Collecting raw materials for engineering. Someone that posted before you said they hated driving around in an SRV collecting rocks on a planet. Well news flash... there are simple easy ways to collect raw materials. But you gotta be willing to play the game instead of brute force grinding. Something I learned a long time ago (I'm an old fart), if something seems repetitive and awful there is probably a better way. (oh -> the answer is just go to a nebula and find a planet with organics. I always find them in an easy flat pain... far more mats for picking than a geo location, and no need to fiddle with cliffs and crevices. Have fun exploring and fill your bins fast.)

This is only a portion of this particular organic site. Waaay faster than visiting geo sites. Unfortunately my bins are already full.

Edit: Added picture.

 

[House0fDerp]

Well yes, or you can focus on how to do it better. How to maximize your efforts so you don't have to do so many repetitive gameplay loops. You can keep doing it the same way 500 times, or you can find better methods to achieve the same thing.

Example:
Collecting raw materials for engineering. Someone that posted before you said they hated driving around in an SRV collecting rocks on a planet. Well news flash... there are simple easy ways to collect raw materials. But you gotta be willing to play the game instead of brute force grinding. Something I learned a long time ago (I'm an old fart), if something seems repetitive and awful there is probably a better way. (oh -> the answer is just go to a nebula and find a planet with organics. I always find them in an easy flat pain... far more numerous than a geo location. Have fun exploring and fill your bins fast.)

Thank you for demonstrating my point. The "simple," "easy" solution to not being fond of driving on the surface in the SRV is to drive on the surface in an SRV in a specific type of location thousand of LY away from anything else in game that I'd actually chose to be doing if I didn't need mats. Still doing the same thing, but making it harder to do anything else. Slightly less time doing it but far more time in the setup. I get what you're going for here, but the end result is just the same with extra steps to make the process even more undesirable.

Edit: Yes, there are closer brain trees. Point still stands. If I had a way to never touch the surface and still get things done I'd take it.

 

[Cageman]

Elite is a sandbox and can be extremely difficult if you allow it to be. Accept a pirate lord wing mission and complete it in an unengineered Sidewinder.

If you know the way around your own gameplay, Elite isn't hard or difficult. It can, at times, be annoying with RNG thrown at you, especially when trying to find that specific Material for engineering. I wouldn't call it a grind though, since I am very aware of the fact that grind is in your mind. I do not grind in this game... I do what I feel I want to do when logging in to the game.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Likewise, for mats, I harvest them by playing the game, I make a point of doing passenger sightseeing tours to geologic features, guyesers, fumeroles, etc, all provide good sources for raw mats. For manufacturered mats I keep my eyes on signal sources, and go bounty hunting or into conflict zones. I also do a lot of missions just for mats. Don't have what you need, grab everything and swap them out at the brokers. No grind, and not difficult.

To get a hundred of the same thing, you don't have to do the same activities one hundered times in a row...

 

[Greasetrap42]

I get what you're going for here, but the end result is just the same with extra steps to make the process even more undesirable.

Nah, I don't think you get it. Most players get an exploration ship pretty fast, its not tough. Getting some mats to get some basic engineering, not tough. But you want to engineer 10 more ships? Well go ahead and have fun grinding geo sites while I just enjoy the game, do some exploring, and fill my bins along the way. Just one example btw.

 

[House0fDerp]

Likewise, for mats, I harvest them by playing the game, I make a point of doing passenger sightseeing tours to geologic features, guyesers, fumeroles, etc, all provide good sources for raw mats. For manufacturered mats I keep my eyes on signal sources, and go bounty hunting or into conflict zones. I also do a lot of missions just for mats. Don't have what you need, grab everything and swap them out at the brokers. No grind, and not difficult.

To get a hundred of the same thing, you don't have to do the same activities one hundered times in a row...

You can't swap manufactured for raw. And you don't get raw from HGEs or shooting things which is most of my "just playing the game." Would be more but I need those raw mats.

Nah, I don't think you get it. Most players get an exploration ship pretty fast, its not tough. Getting some mats to get some basic engineering, not tough. But you want to engineer 10 more ships? Well go ahead and have fun grinding geo sites while I just enjoy the game, do some exploring, and fill my bins along the way. Just one example btw.

Who said I couldn't get an exploration ship? I don't recall that being a part of my post. I do recall saying I didn't like surface prospecting now 3 times, and the comback of "well I do, look at all my full bins" isn't really helpful or informative. Nor does it address that traveling hundreds or thousands of LY just for something you don't like feels like a waste of time when you could be doing something you actually like in game. So yes, I get it, but I also get that you don't understand people not liking the same things you do might influence their habits and just assume they can't build a ship to do what can be done in a sidewinder if they were sufficiently interested.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Thank you for demonstrating my point. The "simple," "easy" solution to not being fond of driving on the surface in the SRV is to drive on the surface in an SRV in a specific type of location thousand of LY away from anything else in game that I'd actually chose to be doing if I didn't need mats. Still doing the same thing, but making it harder to do anything else. Slightly less time doing it but far more time in the setup. I get what you're going for here, but the end result is just the same with extra steps to make the process even more undesirable.

So you don't want to drive an SRV, but you do want raw mats, that is a bit tougher...

However, you can get mats as part of a mission reward package, and you can harvest mats by mining. Indeed, in the early days of engineering, it was one of the most efficient ways of gathering materials, simply fit a couple of mining lasers to a ship, without a refinery, but a load of limpets. Without a refinery present the collector limpets would only collect the materials and ignore the mineral fragments.

 

[Ganogati]

So many threads needing to reduce the costs of something or make credits more easier to obtain.. or (seen couple) that materials/engineering stuff should be more easy.
Is the game really that hard?

And for those who are going to say "no, but it's just too much grinding": Stop that! Don't grind! You can play without grinding.. unless you actually enjoy it and enjoy complaining about it... then go ahead

I wouldn't equate grinding to difficulty. Taking a stamp and stamping 1,000,000 pieces of paper is not technically challenging, but you'll wish you were dead before it's over. The real challenge is not actually ending your life before you reach the 1,000,000th piece of paper.

When games gate-keep certain play styles behind a grind, it's going to cause folks to make posts like that. Someone comes to this game and says "Oh man, I want to PvP!". Well, as folks in the forums like to remind everyone: Engineering changed the game of PvP in ED so you better be willing to adapt to that. Adapting to that requires grinding, and thus people who don't feel like grinding will complain.

It's the nature of the beast. The content of ED relies heavily on repetitive tasks, and if those tasks are required to unlock something a person enjoys or wants to do, they'll probably say "Man, I wish I didn't have to do this. I really just wanna do 'x'".

 

[Ganogati]

It's about to get a lot harder, the new Era seems to be about forcing you to play or lose your stuff. That's really hard if your PC dies or ill for a while

My recommendation is for anyone who has an FC to keep 500mil-1bil in the bank. 1 bil is a full year of FC upkeep. Considering the FC itself will cost 7bil+ fully kitted, I'd recommend adding 1 more to it when you buy to be safe.

 

[Greasetrap42]

You can't swap manufactured for raw. And you don't get raw from HGEs or shooting things which is most of my "just playing the game." Would be more but I need those raw mats.

Just one example btw.

Giving you the gist of collecting mats while playing the game. But if you prefer buying a ship then grinding for the stuff you don't have go ahead, we all have our own play styles. Just don't be complaining about the self-inflicted grinding.

 

[House0fDerp]

So you don't want to drive an SRV, but you do want raw mats, that is a bit tougher...

However, you can get mats as part of a mission reward package, and you can harvest mats by mining. Indeed, in the early days of engineering, it was one of the most efficient ways of gathering materials, simply fit a couple of mining lasers to a ship, without a refinery, but a load of limpets. Without a refinery present the collector limpets would only collect the materials and ignore the mineral fragments.

I've done mining for mining's sake and looked at the gains in raw mats. It's very low. It's indeed possible as any slow trek is technically possible but to pursue it that way would monopolize a lot of time per build that I could spend using those builds. I've never found it competitive with surface prospecting but I never really did that with any regularity either save a few trial runs until mat traders became a thing.

Giving you the gist of collecting mats while playing the game. But if you prefer buying a ship then grinding for the stuff you don't have go ahead, we all have our own play styles. Just don't be complaining about the self-inflicted grinding.

It's not really self inflicted unless your advice to "just play the game" was a lie. Unless you mean "just play the game like I do even if you don't enjoy playing the same way." I've been "just playing the game" acording to my preferences. That's how I KNOW the shortcomings. If I wanted to chase nebulas I'd be chasing nebulas. I'm not because that's not particularly interesting to me. That shouldn't be hard to figure out.

 

[Greasetrap42]

So yes, I get it, but I also get that you don't understand people not liking the same things you do might influence their habits and just assume they can't build a ship to do what can be done in a sidewinder if they were sufficiently interested.

So you want materials for engineering, but you don't want to collect materials for engineering. When others explain easier or better methods you are obstinately proclaiming NO, I MUST GRIND FOR THEM! Fine, go ahead, grind away instead of playing the game. I assure you there are other players collecting engineering mats much faster with less pain while you complain about grinding. Have fun with brute force grinding, I'm out playing the game!

 

[AngryAntz]

Every mmo (ED is a mmo, even though it has a solo option) i have played has grinding in 1 form or another. Depends on your play style on how grindy you find it.

The reality is it can take months (or even years) for developers to write code for what a dedicated player can chew through in an hour or 2. The only way the can stop this is to either time gate it (which i personally hate) or make it so you need 100 mats (or 5mil credits) to aquire, hence grind if you want everything quickly. The other option is of course to allow players to purchase credits/mats (p2w imo) like some games do.

This doesn't make a game more difficult but it certainly can make it tedious, once again depending on your play style.

 

[House0fDerp]

So you want materials for engineering, but you don't want to collect materials for engineering. When others explain easier or better methods you are obstinately proclaiming NO, I MUST GRIND FOR THEM! Fine, go ahead, grind away instead of playing the game. I assure you there are other players collecting engineering mats much faster with less pain while you complain about grinding. Have fun with brute force grinding, I'm out playing the game!

So pick one: Either it's "Just play the game." or "Just play the optimal decathalon for mat pickups". You can't have both without being fundamentally dishonest. Because "Just playing the game" I don't get raw mats. But I could just not do the parts that I like even more often and do more of the things I'm not fond of, as you suggest. At that point I'm not just playing the game though am I? At that point I'm consciously, intentionally engaging in behaviors I'd otherwise not do to obtain what I lack. Behaviors I don't really enjoy for a specific reward. Almost like some sort of grind...

Edit: I genuinely don't get the disconnect of people telling other people that the solution to their grind is to insert another more time consuming grind. I'm not out exploring not because I'm grinding raws but because I'm not into exploring. I wasn't exploring back when raws were something I could max a ship without. Doing so because they became important wouldn't be avoiding the grind. It would just be another part of it.

 

[Darth Ender]

grinding is always there in these kinds of games, true.. but the good games also have mechanics that aren't grindy.. You do those once in a while because they're objectively hard to accomplish and you will risk significant assets if you fail but the reward is great as well and often the accomplishment of that activity changes the game in a meaningful way for everyone going forward. Allowing players who want to risk the loss, to skip needing to do so much grinding.

Elite doesn't have that option. Everything is grind and the rewards for the easiest grinding outpace the rewards for the most tedious grinding.