Is FA off the answer for combat flying?

[Shiro Akai]

I'm a terrible pilot. Combat wise. It's almost two years as I have my CMDR license and I can count on hand hand how many times I have participated in combat flying. And mind that this hand looks like old mutilated woodcutter's hand.

OK, skills aside, it always hit me how ships are unresponsive in combat, how sluggish they are and how it takes ages to get into position. Most cases I was trying to get away from being shot than trying to get the weapon lock. From my limited experience I noted that NPCs turn on a dime and are far more nimble then I. Obvious cheat mechanic tailored into design to give them any survivability. I get that. But I also noticed that FA is a thing.

This gives me issue. FDEVs envisioned combat as a dogfight. Extremely short range, visual range, literally sitting on tail. At the same time ships are slow to react, turn like a pregnant whales and generally are anything but fast and deadly combatants. Solution for that is FA off. Suddenly with assist off ships gain on maneuverability and responsiveness. True, inertia still remains and no X-Wing vs TIE Fighter duels that look like WWII ones.

So my gripe is - is FA off the answer for combat flying? I know I'm a biowaste pilot in terms of combat flying. I had my share of it in other games, but there at least I could feel like flying a fighter. I'm aware that in ED experience is gold. But somehow I'm unwilling to put at stakes my 10M (or more) worth of rebuy combat ship just to burn through my reserves in an attempt to gain that xp.

People state that NPCs are laugh, I struggle even with the easiest ones. I would like to part time bounty hunt but former experience showed two things:
- I suxx
- more effort and struggling than actual joy from the activity.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

FA off and lateral thrusters are very much a vital instrument during your fight flight.

Also, whats your ships build if you struggle with NPC's?

 

[Elysianknight]

Then start to learn FA in a small, cheap ship, where the rebuy is peanuts.... engineering is unimportant if the aim is to learn to fly FA...

 

[777Driver]

Ships are actually ridiculously maneuverable for their size, has always seemed strange when cmdrs complain about ships being sluggish, I guess it is just the illusion of flying fighter jet sized craft.

Correct (vert/Lat) thruster management and optimal speeds is much more important than FA-OFF.

I prefer FA-OFF since it gives more freedom, and a boost to maneuverability, it also teaches you about optimum use of vert/lat thrusters during a maneuver, FA-ON is not as efficient. Best method is to learn FA-OFF, and then know the correct times to switch it back on.

 

[Eliza]

Hi Shiro!

FA off can give a a bit more of maneuverability, but its not essential for PvE-Fights. The most important thing is, you will be most agile, when your speedindicator is in "the blue zone". The second is your ship. Every ship has its unique flightpattern.
For example: With a viper you can also "turn on a dime", but never with a Corvette.
And third: Keep in Mind, that a Boost will always be applied to the Thrusters you are currently "firering". Thus said: If I tilt my ship and boosting at the same time, my turnrate will be much higher as without a boost.

Get a feeling for the ship you're in to. I also had some issues as I flew with a FAS. I was totally unused to handle a Ship that dirfts. With a bit of practice I managed to "caculate" the drift into my style of flight.

After you got a really good felling of handling your ship, you can try FAoff. First just concentrate on rotating your ship with FAoff. Be cautious though. The ship will be much mor "unforgiving" about hefty steering-orders.

After all, if you're really interested in FAoff I can recommend this FAoff YT-Series by Moxen Wolf. It helped me alot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zIXu52RnA

Stay Safe out there, Commander! o7

 

[Morbad]

FA Off is one tool of many.

If you are a poor pilot, simply focusing on FA Off isn't going to magically make you a better one. You need to become practiced with each tool at your disposal and know when to apply them.

You have a lot of misconceptions about what FA Off does and does not do. Dispelling those would be a good place to start.

 

[Wasp0]

IMHO,

FA-Off is really only required for PvP. The NPC's (PvE) don't warrant learning that skill especially as you are already struggling. If however you want to join the 13th PvP Group (Other PvP flavoured Groups available), then FA-Off is more desirable.

Get a cheap small ship Viper 3 for instance, or cobra, engineer it for combat, Thrusters, Shields, Distributor, then weapons. Stick to Gimballed lasers and Multi-cannons to start, then just go practice in a High Res Site. You will lose a bit, but eventually you will get better, and be able to then consider other weapons, Fixed weapons, bigger ships.

Practice makes perfect, and the small cheap ships don't hurt much when you lose!

Do you have a friend you can wing with and go into a High res site, that would help you as friend can watch your six!

Good luck.

 

[Shiro Akai]

FA off and lateral thrusters are very much a vital instrument during your fight flight.

Also, whats your ships build if you struggle with NPC's?

That pretty much confirms my assumption.

As for the ship build - don't have any for now. Last time I tried it was Viper mk3 and later DBX. Now I have docked FDL and attempting to figure something out. I'm a "cautious" pilot that tends to go for overkill - take bigger gun that is actually necessary.

Hi Shiro!

FA off can give a a bit more of maneuverability, but its not essential for PvE-Fights. The most important thing is, you will be most agile, wenn your speedindicator is in "the blue zone". The second is your ship. Every ship has its unique flightpattern.
For example: With a viper you can also "turn on a dime", but never with a Corvette.

<snip>

After all, if you're really interested in FAoff I can recommend this FAoff YT-Series by Moxen Wolf. It helped me alot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zIXu52RnA

Stay Safe out there, Commander! o7

Heh, not that dumb to not figure out that big Corvette is less maneuverable than Viper. Thanks for the link, will check for sure.

Ships are actually ridiculously maneuverable for their size, has always seemed strange when cmdrs complain about ships being sluggish, I guess it is just the illusion of flying fighter jet sized craft.

Maybe for someone who combat flies on regular basis. When you jump into "on occasion" perception changes. Suddenly you can't stay on target, enemy ships constantly stay on your back, pouring shots and your stick is on the verge of breaking because you attempt to turn harder. Which isn't happening. I had one fight (me in Viper) against Adder, mid tier skill. Eventually killed it but it took far too long to my liking. Mostly because I was turning all the time instead of shooting.

Generally I know I'm not the ace. I played other games (TIE Fighter, X-Wing, XvsT, Freespace and other titles I can't even remember) and even flying slow bomber felt more agile than what I experience here.

Am I truly that lame pilot?

 

[Wasp0]

That pretty much confirms my assumption.

As for the ship build - don't have any for now. Last time I tried it was Viper mk3 and later DBX. Now I have docked FDL and attempting to figure something out. I'm a "cautious" pilot that tends to go for overkill - take bigger gun that is actually necessary.






Heh, not that dumb to not figure out that big Corvette is less maneuverable than Viper. Thanks for the link, will check for sure.





Maybe for someone who combat flies on regular basis. When you jump into "on occasion" perception changes. Suddenly you can't stay on target, enemy ships constantly stay on your back, pouring shots and your stick is on the verge of breaking because you attempt to turn harder. Which isn't happening. I had one fight (me in Viper) against Adder, mid tier skill. Eventually killed it but it took far too long to my liking. Mostly because I was turning all the time instead of shooting.

Generally I know I'm not the ace. I played other games (TIE Fighter, X-Wing, XvsT, Freespace and other titles I can't even remember) and even flying slow bomber felt more agile than what I experience here.

Am I truly that lame pilot?

Shiro, you surely do need an ED Mentor. Do you have a friend you can wing with to give you advice on combat, builds and other things ED related. I honestly think you would get even more enjoyment out of the game if you could enhance this section of the game.

Happy to help, based in the UK and on most UK evening times, in game friend request me if you want. (Promise not a Griefer )

 

[zarrazee]

Happy to help, based in the UK and on most UK evening times, in game friend request me if you want. (Promise not a Griefer )

Shiro, exactly the same here. If you want to hook up and do some practice with me, add me in-game. CMDR Zarra Zarson

O7

 

[Morbad]

Good thruster control is a must regardless of which mode you spend most of your time in and good thruster control will also considerably reduce the differences in manuvering capabilities between FA On and FA Off. There are a few areas where one or the other have significant intrinsic advantages, but they are fewer than many make them out to be.

Those FA Off exercises also happen to be very good thruster exercises that anyone can see benefit from, even if they intend to stay FA On in combat 95% of the time.

Anyway, your flight mode choice (and full one or the other is not optimal) isn't your main issue, lack of thruster utilization is.

This is a Viper III with zero engineering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwIBz-noZ2M

How much FA Off did you see there?

 

[KillaALF]

I do a lot of combat (PVE only) and Idon't use FA off (liberal use of vertical thrusters, though) and I have no problems dispatching NPCs left and right. As Morbad said, it is one tool of many, and since it is a tool I am not familiar with, the few times I have tried it in combat in the past it was more of a hindrance than a benefit. And since it's not essential to my success I can't really be bothered to learn it.

 

[GODofDUTY83]

I'm a terrible pilot. Combat wise. It's almost two years as I have my CMDR license and I can count on hand hand how many times I have participated in combat flying. And mind that this hand looks like old mutilated woodcutter's hand.

OK, skills aside, it always hit me how ships are unresponsive in combat, how sluggish they are and how it takes ages to get into position. Most cases I was trying to get away from being shot than trying to get the weapon lock. From my limited experience I noted that NPCs turn on a dime and are far more nimble then I. Obvious cheat mechanic tailored into design to give them any survivability. I get that. But I also noticed that FA is a thing.

This gives me issue. FDEVs envisioned combat as a dogfight. Extremely short range, visual range, literally sitting on tail. At the same time ships are slow to react, turn like a pregnant whales and generally are anything but fast and deadly combatants. Solution for that is FA off. Suddenly with assist off ships gain on maneuverability and responsiveness. True, inertia still remains and no X-Wing vs TIE Fighter duels that look like WWII ones.

So my gripe is - is FA off the answer for combat flying? I know I'm a biowaste pilot in terms of combat flying. I had my share of it in other games, but there at least I could feel like flying a fighter. I'm aware that in ED experience is gold. But somehow I'm unwilling to put at stakes my 10M (or more) worth of rebuy combat ship just to burn through my reserves in an attempt to gain that xp.

People state that NPCs are laugh, I struggle even with the easiest ones. I would like to part time bounty hunt but former experience showed two things:
- I suxx
- more effort and struggling than actual joy from the activity.

No it's not.
Alot of players slap thrust in blue and pitch, thats it. Don't be this player.

Combat can be fun without using FAoff if you have the right ship for your fighting style.

Take a slow turning behemoth like a Type 9. You are unlikely to keep a target in view from your canopy, so why try ? Set it up with turrets and lay down broadside fire.
Take a fast moving FDL. Boost boost boost. Boosting increases your chances of keeping your ship in firing positions whilst keeping your ship out of the enemy firing positions. Know how to boost. Direction is key.
Take an Eagle. Would you want to engage an Anaconda with it ? Target picking. Dont start a fight with something that may tan you in seconds, unless its a harmless Conda, then have fun, but who sees them anymore ?

Find your ship. Find your style. Dont go picking fights with high ranks. Head to a HazRes and find master ranked npcs to practice on. HazRes is good as there are no cops to accidentally shoot. As you start to find your ships limits you will understand where FAoff has benefits in particular situations relevant to you.

FAoff is what you start to use to build and add a more advanced manoeuvrability set to your arsenal.

Good luck, Cmdr. And have fun. Combat is class.

 

[Dutchman141]

I'm a terrible pilot. Combat wise. It's almost two years as I have my CMDR license and I can count on hand hand how many times I have participated in combat flying. And mind that this hand looks like old mutilated woodcutter's hand.

OK, skills aside, it always hit me how ships are unresponsive in combat, how sluggish they are and how it takes ages to get into position. Most cases I was trying to get away from being shot than trying to get the weapon lock. From my limited experience I noted that NPCs turn on a dime and are far more nimble then I. Obvious cheat mechanic tailored into design to give them any survivability. I get that. But I also noticed that FA is a thing.

This gives me issue. FDEVs envisioned combat as a dogfight. Extremely short range, visual range, literally sitting on tail. At the same time ships are slow to react, turn like a pregnant whales and generally are anything but fast and deadly combatants. Solution for that is FA off. Suddenly with assist off ships gain on maneuverability and responsiveness. True, inertia still remains and no X-Wing vs TIE Fighter duels that look like WWII ones.

So my gripe is - is FA off the answer for combat flying? I know I'm a biowaste pilot in terms of combat flying. I had my share of it in other games, but there at least I could feel like flying a fighter. I'm aware that in ED experience is gold. But somehow I'm unwilling to put at stakes my 10M (or more) worth of rebuy combat ship just to burn through my reserves in an attempt to gain that xp.

People state that NPCs are laugh, I struggle even with the easiest ones. I would like to part time bounty hunt but former experience showed two things:
- I suxx
- more effort and struggling than actual joy from the activity.

I hear ya.

I never use FA off, I've got enough problems getting the ship were I want it already without it.
Just do like me, save up for a resilient Corvette and then it doesn't matter how bad you are at combat, I love combat now, in my Vette

Not much help there I know but I struggle with the same problem.

 

[znôrt]

I'm a terrible pilot

just fly more. in combat. it is all about experience. i'm not at all an example, but that much i know.

regarding fa-off ... it's a flight mode all in itself, but not for everybody (and not for every control set). just experiment and stick with what works for you. i use a mix of on/off, my default mode is fa-on, sprinkled with fa-off intuitively. you have many thrusters, don't forget to use them all. fa-off is seen as the quintaessence of freedom of movement, but it comes at a cost and don't forget you have a great deal of lateral and vertical displacement in fa-on too.

the other issue, sluggishness ... well, that's big ships, which handle just like small/medium ships (a sad shame, really) to scale: just bigger and 'sluggisher'. big ships maybe require more tactic, less hectic flying and more anticipation in positioning. with small ships you can just zip around. couldn't recommend them more!

 

[Dutchman141]

Head to a HazRes and find master ranked npcs to practice on. HazRes is good as there are no cops to accidentally shoot.

Could you point me to those HazRes's?
Every HazRes I visit has a load of security ships in it, and they're always in the way.
A while ago a HazRes used to be void of security ships but somewhere Fdev decided that it was fun to put them there and annoy the heck out of everybody.
I can't count the times my notoriety went up because a security guy thought it a good idea to place himself right between me and my target in a HazRes.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Maybe you want to practice.

Kill more things.

There’s an Elite Sidewinder in Lave in the “Civillian Broadcast Detected” tourist spot just off planet Lave.

It will happily sit still while you line up to practice with a new weapon or technique.

(uh - doing this is murder and will get the system cops onto you)

 

[Typhon]

What helped me (at least prior to getting into engineering) was the Krait. I recommend grabbing a Krait or Crusader if the money is tight. the SLF as a distraction will help you quite a bit early on.

 

[Stamford Rider]

Could you point me to those HazRes's?
Every HazRes I visit has a load of security ships in it, and they're always in the way.
A while ago a HazRes used to be void of security ships but somewhere Fdev decided that it was fun to put them there and annoy the heck out of everybody.
I can't count the times my notoriety went up because a security guy thought it a good idea to place himself right between me and my target in a HazRes.

Trigger discipline is one of the things about combat flying that needs to be learnt; FD are doing you a favour.

 

[znôrt]

There’s an Elite Sidewinder in Lave in the “Civillian Broadcast Detected” tourist spot just off planet Lave.

really? didn't know! what's this about?