Is it normal that players can safely kill everyone on Planetary Outposts?

[Sir Ganksalot]

I don't mind gankers usually as they're game content for me too, but I sense a certain level of schizophrenia here...

• The general advice is to engineer your ships in a certain way to be able to evade gankers, but the ganking happens at the very places where you do this i.e. the engineer bases
• The other common advice (which I tend to agree with, to some degree at least) is to not follow the Farseer but the Martuuk route, but it seems gankers are now camping there too as per the OP and SirGank's posts

So apart from switching to Solo, what are new players supposed to do? They won't 'git gud' from repeatedly seeing the rebuy screen, and the "friendly ganker who helps you by blowing up your ship first" is a small minority, I can tell you that - most gankers don't bother with comms at all apart from further salt mining the victim if the victim allows for it by responding to the gank via comms.

And before anyone posts videos of C-rated Cobra's evading a gank attempt, let's face it gankers run purpose-built ships, and "competing" in those vs. total noobs who can only just about use their docking computers is so ridiculously asymmetrical it's not even funny anymore.

You need a lot of flying practice to escape in an unengineered ship against even a single ganker in their often speedy, HP-laden meta-build usually fitted with at least some long range weapons (and many work in wings, go figure), so only those who dedicate their entire playtime in Elite to PvP will succeed, spending a lot of credits on rebuys they do not have at the very beginning of playing the game (i.e. when trips to Farseer & Martuuk are essential activities to progress). And as @Bigmaec pointed out already this is even more difficult planetside.

The majority doesn't play that way though, and will either switch to Solo or use the block function, which I've seen recommended very often these days in Deciat or more recently in the systems with the damaged stations. I try to argue against it where I can, but the continued behaviour of some players doesn't exactly make this any easier.

You're sawing off the branch you're sitting on, I just think it's really short-sighted, on top of which base camping is incredibly weak sauce imo.

They need to join my Gank Evasion Academy, which has really been doing well by the way.

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[fennster]

Gankers do more to help the community that anyone else.

"You know everybody tells me, they say you know, I am the best ganker. Probably the best the world has ever seen.. They come up to me and they say look, look we are so impressed with how much your ganking helps the community, they all tell me that. It's true, it's true, no one knows the community like I do.... gankers do more to help the community than anyone else.."

 

[Deleted member 182079]

They need to join my Gank Evasion Academy, which has really been doing well by the way.

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That's all fine and well, but as I said, I firmly believe your approach is the exception from the rule, based on my own experience and from reading syschat where recent ganks are discussed (sometimes salty, but not always).

You do and say what you please of course, but if I were you I'd probably refrain from leaning out of the window too much speaking for the "ganking community" unless you're their elected leader or something.

I'm curious though, and this is an honest question - are you giving players advice how to avoid getting ganked planetside? And if so, what would be your suggested plan of action for a player who rolls up at any of the engineer bases in an unengineered Conda?

 

[Brrokk]

That's all fine and well, but as I said, I firmly believe your approach is the exception from the rule, based on my own experience and from reading syschat where recent ganks are discussed (sometimes salty, but not always).

It is. I mentioned in another thread that last week I went to see how bad the situation really was in Deciat, in a stock Sidewinder. Each time interdicted, I submitted, went to 50% throttle and said "Hi". You know the rest. It would have been a positive pleasure to meet someone like Sir Ganks but I fear he's unique.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

It is. I mentioned in another thread that last week I went to see how bad the situation really was in Deciat, in a stock Sidewinder. Each time interdicted, I submitted, went to 50% throttle and said "Hi". You know the rest. It would have been a positive pleasure to meet someone like Sir Ganks but I fear he's unique.

After I'd get exploded - it sometimes still happens if I fly a PvE build that doesn't lend itself well too PvP engagements (slower ships where all internals are used for the intended role at hand) - or if I manage to escape I sometimes send a message through syschat - either laughing about it if I lost out, or giving them a slight rubbing (nothing offensive of course) if I didn't - the chance of getting a response is so slim I can't actually remember the last time I got one (apart from my recent encounter with a guy who tried to wind me up because he was probably annoyed that he couldn't catch me). I'd say 10% chance if even that. Most gankers really just shoot-boom-move on.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

That's all fine and well, but as I said, I firmly believe your approach is the exception from the rule, based on my own experience and from reading syschat where recent ganks are discussed (sometimes salty, but not always).

You do and say what you please of course, but if I were you I'd probably refrain from leaning out of the window too much speaking for the "ganking community" unless you're their elected leader or something.

I'm curious though, and this is an honest question - are you giving players advice how to avoid getting ganked planetside? And if so, what would be your suggested plan of action for a player who rolls up at any of the engineer bases in an unengineered Conda?

To land quickly.
No this is actually a great point. I have no idea what to teach for planet side ganks. There really is no way to escape unless you have a tough and well built ship.

I speak for most gankers because many are just like me. I'm just the only one on the forums.
Ran by gankers

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[Sir Ganksalot]

It is. I mentioned in another thread that last week I went to see how bad the situation really was in Deciat, in a stock Sidewinder. Each time interdicted, I submitted, went to 50% throttle and said "Hi". You know the rest. It would have been a positive pleasure to meet someone like Sir Ganks but I fear he's unique.

After I'd get exploded - it sometimes still happens if I fly a PvE build that doesn't lend itself well too PvP engagements (slower ships where all internals are used for the intended role at hand) - or if I manage to escape I sometimes send a message through syschat - either laughing about it if I lost out, or giving them a slight rubbing (nothing offensive of course) if I didn't - the chance of getting a response is so slim I can't actually remember the last time I got one (apart from my recent encounter with a guy who tried to wind me up because he was probably annoyed that he couldn't catch me). I'd say 10% chance if even that. Most gankers really just shoot-boom-move on.

Ill be honest, it really comes from both ends. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to communicate with my soon-to-be victim, only to be met with silence. It get rather discouraging to communicate when almost no one responds on my end as well.

 

[Danieros]

Preaching to ganker crowd is useless. They don't change their ways. Problem essentially is, that gankers really poison the only unlimited social mode of game, and only real remedy player has is to keep away from that. Solution would be in hands of the Fdev: Remove player limits on PG's producing essentially Open-PVE. Or make Open-PVE mode. Or up the negative consequences for ganking activities way more harsh. Or tinker with instancing algorithm so that ganker either need to reset their characters or enjoy instances populated only by other gankers. But as we know Fdev does not care and allows certain group to ruin open for all others.

Ideally they should balance these issues more so the consequences make it not practical for mindless non-anarchy killing. There are legit PvP interaction opportunities in the game like pirating, powerplay/BGS work and wing content but they get obfuscated by a lot of design limitations, not being rewarding enough (the hundred million payouts should be here, not at pointing lasers at rocks for almost a million CR per ton) and mindless player killing. Some dude going rogue and ramming people near stations like a bloody terrorist should quickly find himself in a very bad spot with the pilot's federation, the superpowers, and well, the entire civilized space.

Anyway, while they don't, we have the easy solution of opting out of interactions altogether or selectively.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

To land quickly.
No this is actually a great point. I have no idea what to teach for planet side ganks. There really is no way to escape unless you have a tough and well built ship.

All one could suggest is to check your instance, look out for clown makeup (but that's no guarantee either way) and low wake again - but if you stay in Open you just end up instancing with the same guys again if you try to approach the base the second time around. Flying low and fast can't be done in big/slow ships so that's out of question, plus I presume most gankers run long range scanners so are likely to see you before you notice them.

The planet is basically teaming up with the ganker as 180 degrees are a no-go-zone for the victim.

This is why I don't like base camping. There's no real counter other than running a solid build, but that's precisely why (most) players are at the engineers - they need to get there first.

I speak for most gankers because many are just like me. I'm just the only one on the forums.
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Are you seriously telling us you speak for the majority of gankers across all game platforms and timezones? Come on.

Ill be honest, it really comes from both ends. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to communicate with my soon-to-be victim, only to be met with silence. It get rather discouraging to communicate when almost no one responds on my end as well.

Of course - but I would always give a noob the benefit of the doubt, given the quality of the in-game comms tools available. Even I miss messages now and then and I try to keep an eye on the comms window as much as I can.

On the other hand what do you expect - you're engaging in unprovoked attacks against random players, and don't know what else they lost apart from their rebuy. One will have to be quite chilled out about being on the receiving end of a gank, and a lot clearly aren't. I am, but it took me a fair while to get there, and while I never offered salt in return for getting my ship blown up, I figured that silence is probably the next best response.

Again, bear in mind that no ganker has ever offered to help me after the 'engagement' - and I viewed friend requests very suspiciously in the beginning at least (such as opening oneself up for verbal abuse/mocking, getting tracked in the galmap, that sort of thing). Doesn't mean it actually happened a lot but it's a fair concern for new players in particular. And while I do have a few gankers in my friend list, any interaction has been close to zero since.

One particular (and somewhat notorious one in the PvP scene) individual kept sending me friend invites, which I initially declined, then accepted - I figured he either just tried to keep tracking me or improve instancing with his mates as I hardly ever shared the same location as him (except once where he tried to gank me in an asteroid belt but I successfully hid until he left my instance). We were 'friends' for at least a year until he 'unfriended' me recently. Still not sure what that was all about.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

All one could suggest is to check your instance, look out for clown makeup (but that's no guarantee either way) and low wake again - but if you stay in Open you just end up instancing with the same guys again if you try to approach the base the second time around. Flying low and fast can't be done in big/slow ships so that's out of question, plus I presume most gankers run long range scanners so are likely to see you before you notice them.

The planet is basically teaming up with the ganker as 180 degrees are a no-go-zone for the victim.

This is why I don't like base camping. There's no real counter other than running a solid build, but that's precisely why (most) players are at the engineers - they need to get there first.


Are you seriously telling us you speak for the majority of gankers across all game platforms and timezones? Come on.

Of course - but I would always give a noob the benefit of the doubt, given the quality of the in-game comms tools available. Even I miss messages now and then and I try to keep an eye on the comms window as much as I can.

On the other hand what do you expect - you're engaging in unprovoked attacks against random players, and don't know what else they lost apart from their rebuy. One will have to be quite chilled out about being on the receiving end of a gank, and a lot clearly aren't. I am, but it took me a fair while to get there, and while I never offered salt in return for getting my ship blown up, I figured that silence is probably the next best response.

Again, bear in mind that no ganker has ever offered to help me after the 'engagement' - and I viewed friend requests very suspiciously in the beginning at least (such as opening oneself up for verbal abuse/mocking, getting tracked in the galmap, that sort of thing). Doesn't mean it actually happened a lot but it's a fair concern for new players in particular.

Well I was a ganker on xbox for 3 years and got to know all the gankers there pretty well. I've been on PC for almost a year and am part of all the ganking groups and know everyone here as well.
I know the crappy gankers that just want to poop on everything but they're about a dozen out of 1000.
In my GEA alone there are about 35 gankers that are there to help people. I shouldn't say I speak for them but I can say many share my views and opinions and spend a lot of their time helping other players as well.

So this is the catch 22. People complain that they didn't even get a message from their attacker yet I send a message to almost every victim of mine and yet I almost never get a response.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Maybe I just kept instancing with that dirty dozen then.

Also just to make sure we understand each other - I'm not complaining about lack of comms - I just described what my experience has been over the past 3-4 years I've spent almost exclusively in Open (on PC, CET timezone, and until FC released mostly based at Jameson's). And more often than not if gankers decided to use comms, it wasn't exactly what I'd call "friendly". Far from it. @Sir Ganksalot I actually like your attitude but I still don't think it's representative of the common ganker.

 

[Morbad]

what would be your suggested plan of action for a player who rolls up at any of the engineer bases in an unengineered Conda?

If you insist on bringing a lemon of a ship and aren't proficient in speed docking, land 10km out and drive in with your SRV...lamps off of course.

 

[Danquememe]

I'm curious though, and this is an honest question - are you giving players advice how to avoid getting ganked planetside? And if so, what would be your suggested plan of action for a player who rolls up at any of the engineer bases in an unengineered Conda?

I'm not @Sir Ganksalot and I'm far from the most experienced, but here are some thoughts on the matter. They apply generally, but especially to planetary situations:

1) Have your bandwidth meter open at all times while playing in Open. This is your "early warning system" and the best clue that there are other players about. CTRL + B opens it, and if you're not in a wing, any bandwidth above 1000 B/s is a likely indication of player presence in your instance. If you are in a wing, your incoming/outgoing bandwidth will be higher, depending on how many players you're with, but it will still spike above your average when other players are around.

2) When you see the bandwidth spike above 1000 B/s, open your Comms > History panel to see who is instanced with you. Any player shown with "NOW" next to their name is instanced somewhere within 500 Ls of you. They may not be showing up on your radar or in your contacts panel yet, but they're out there, somewhere.

3) Study the player's name and Holo-Me. "Punny" or "memey" names when combined with colorful hair, face paint/tattos, etc are a sign that the player is likely a ganker. Be on your guard. If they look like they spent time trying to make the Holo-Me look like a normal human, then they're probably not gankers. But don't count on it. "Trust no one" is a good policy. Cutthroat galaxy yadda yadda.

The above steps can be performed while docked at an engineer base, or while in glide. In both of those situations, you're in the "normal space" instance with those players, and need to be ready for anything.

Glide
If you're dropping in glide from orbital cruise, start toggling through targets on your radar and trying to identify which contacts are players. Hollow yellow rectangles or triangles are players. If you see a hollow triangle, someone has their hardpoints out. Abort glide and get the hell out. If you see someone that looks like an obvious ganker, same. Consider dropping a little ways from the base and trying to get your situational awareness before committing to landing. Anything looks weird, GTFO

Returning to Orbital Cruise is awesome, because in Orbital Cruise, you cannot be interdicted, and you cannot deploy hardpoints. YOU ARE INVULNERABLE IN ORBITAL CRUISE. Use this to your advantage. Keep your ship between the "Glide" trigger and the "Supercruise" trigger and you can be safe. You can also hyperspace jump away to a different system if you wish. Or relog to Solo / PG if desired.

However, if you're engaged before you land, do not try to get back to Orbital Cruise, because it counts as low waking, and you'll be mass locked. Instead, revert to standard evasion tactics: 4 pips to SYS, 2 pips to ENG, boost and use laterals to be evasive, do not straight line away from your attacker, force them to turn a lot and have small snapshot firing windows. Select a system to hyperspace jump away to, remembering that it will have to be one that you have line of sight to (i.e. not one on the opposite side of the planet). If you can make it to the pad and land successfully, that's an option too. Fast thinking and fast acting are important, but it's even more important to approach slowly and gain situational awareness before committing.

Docked/Underground
This is the "hard mode" of dealing with gankers at an engineer base. You've gone underground to do your stuff, and now you have no easy way of identifying where other players are, because you can't easily cycle through contacts. Protip: if there are players in your History tab, do not select "Launch" while underground. Instead, select the "Return to pad" option that takes you up to the pad, but does not begin the launch sequence. YOU ARE INVULNERABLE WHILE ON THE PAD. Use this to your advantage to try to lock contacts on your radar. If there are players just hanging around, consider whether you're in the mood to try to run a gauntlet. If you don't want to deal with it, relog to Solo or PG and fly out that way.

If you do want to go for it, open your Galaxy Map. Select a nearby system, it doesn't matter which one. Dismiss the map, and see if you have clear line of sight from the pad to the system. You're looking for a system that you can hyperspace jump to without having to clear the planet to do so. If you can't see it (use freelook to look around as needed), select a different system until you can.

Try to launch when the other players aren't too close. Put 4 pips to SYS and 2 pips to ENG, raise gear and boost. Do not necessarily climb, use your verticals and laterals to be evasive. You are trying to get far enough away from the base to clear the mass lock. As soon as you do, begin your hyperspace jump. Yes, you can hyperspace jump from a planetary surface without problem, so long as you have clear line of sight to the system. Keep boosting and being evasive, the normal gank evasion tips apply here, just don't get yourself masslocked by the station. Good luck.

Hope it's helpful.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

If you insist on bringing a lemon of a ship and aren't proficient in speed docking, land 10km out and drive in with your SRV...lamps off of course.

Can you dock at an engineer in a SRV?

 

[Morbad]

Can you dock at an engineer in a SRV?

Yes. You can dock anywhere that allows you to deploy your SRV while docked. You just request docking permission and drive into one of the SRV hangars, then return to your ship.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

If you insist on bringing a lemon of a ship and aren't proficient in speed docking, land 10km out and drive in with your SRV...lamps off of course.

I should try that some day, didn't think it would be possible to dock at a base while your ship is somewhere else - I always drove around bases in my SRV where my ship's docked. Especially handy at Farseers given I recently discovered a sneaky SRV entrance after I fell into one of the canyons that allowed me getting back to my ship (which was docked).

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I'm not @Sir Ganksalot and I'm far from the most experienced, but here are some thoughts on the matter. They apply generally, but especially to planetary situations:

1) Have your bandwidth meter open at all times while playing in Open. This is your "early warning system" and the best clue that there are other players about. CTRL + B opens it, and if you're not in a wing, any bandwidth above 1000 B/s is a likely indication of player presence in your instance. If you are in a wing, your incoming/outgoing bandwidth will be higher, depending on how many players you're with, but it will still spike above your average when other players are around.

2) When you see the bandwidth spike above 1000 B/s, open your Comms > History panel to see who is instanced with you. Any player shown with "NOW" next to their name is instanced somewhere within 500 Ls of you. They may not be showing up on your radar or in your contacts panel yet, but they're out there, somewhere.

3) Study the player's name and Holo-Me. "Punny" or "memey" names when combined with colorful hair, face paint/tattos, etc are a sign that the player is likely a ganker. Be on your guard. If they look like they spent time trying to make the Holo-Me look like a normal human, then they're probably not gankers. But don't count on it. "Trust no one" is a good policy. Cutthroat galaxy yadda yadda.

The above steps can be performed while docked at an engineer base, or while in glide. In both of those situations, you're in the "normal space" instance with those players, and need to be ready for anything.

Glide
If you're dropping in glide from orbital cruise, start toggling through targets on your radar and trying to identify which contacts are players. Hollow yellow rectangles or triangles are players. If you see a hollow triangle, someone has their hardpoints out. Abort glide and get the hell out. If you see someone that looks like an obvious ganker, same. Consider dropping a little ways from the base and trying to get your situational awareness before committing to landing. Anything looks weird, GTFO

Returning to Orbital Cruise is awesome, because in Orbital Cruise, you cannot be interdicted, and you cannot deploy hardpoints. YOU ARE INVULNERABLE IN ORBITAL CRUISE. Use this to your advantage. Keep your ship between the "Glide" trigger and the "Supercruise" trigger and you can be safe. You can also hyperspace jump away to a different system if you wish. Or relog to Solo / PG if desired.

However, if you're engaged before you land, do not try to get back to Orbital Cruise, because it counts as low waking, and you'll be mass locked. Instead, revert to standard evasion tactics: 4 pips to SYS, 2 pips to ENG, boost and use laterals to be evasive, do not straight line away from your attacker, force them to turn a lot and have small snapshot firing windows. Select a system to hyperspace jump away to, remembering that it will have to be one that you have line of sight to (i.e. not one on the opposite side of the planet). If you can make it to the pad and land successfully, that's an option too. Fast thinking and fast acting are important, but it's even more important to approach slowly and gain situational awareness before committing.

Docked/Underground
This is the "hard mode" of dealing with gankers at an engineer base. You've gone underground to do your stuff, and now you have no easy way of identifying where other players are, because you can't easily cycle through contacts. Protip: if there are players in your History tab, do not select "Launch" while underground. Instead, select the "Return to pad" option that takes you up to the pad, but does not begin the launch sequence. YOU ARE INVULNERABLE WHILE ON THE PAD. Use this to your advantage to try to lock contacts on your radar. If there are players just hanging around, consider whether you're in the mood to try to run a gauntlet. If you don't want to deal with it, relog to Solo or PG and fly out that way.

If you do want to go for it, open your Galaxy Map. Select a nearby system, it doesn't matter which one. Dismiss the map, and see if you have clear line of sight from the pad to the system. You're looking for a system that you can hyperspace jump to without having to clear the planet to do so. If you can't see it (use freelook to look around as needed), select a different system until you can.

Try to launch when the other players aren't too close. Put 4 pips to SYS and 2 pips to ENG, raise gear and boost. Do not necessarily climb, use your verticals and laterals to be evasive. You are trying to get far enough away from the base to clear the mass lock. As soon as you do, begin your hyperspace jump. Yes, you can hyperspace jump from a planetary surface without problem, so long as you have clear line of sight to the system. Keep boosting and being evasive, the normal gank evasion tips apply here, just don't get yourself masslocked by the station. Good luck.

Hope it's helpful.

All fair advice - it ultimately boils down to

1) If you're approaching, check what other players are present, if in doubt, switch modes. Not exactly riveting gameplay but that's pretty much all a noob can do, the rest is luck in terms of whether gankers are present, and if they are whether they're already busy or are awaiting you with open arms.
2) If you're docked, hope for the best and boost away at low altitude before attempting to wake out. Still, if you're running a slow/large ship you're basically a sitting duck, so all you can hope is gankers are picking on someone else, or are sleeping on the job.

Personally I find it quite entertaining to break through ganker lines and even while taking fire it's not a problem to last long enough to both dock and leave, but again I'm running mostly G5'd ships where it matters, a luxury the average newbie doesn't have unfortunately. So the general advice for those individuals really is, and it pains me to say it: switch to Solo if just temporarily.

Morbad's tip above is very intriguing even though the snag is you have to have an SRV bay fitted of course, and don't mind the extra time it takes.

 

[Noddie]

I think this topic has already been beaten to death. Yes, gankers are a problem. No, there isn't much you can do but join them as engineering and the ease of obtaining top ships has meant that this is all a lot of people do, and if you don't do likewise you'll always be at a spectacular disadvantage. Unfortunately the game went through a whole "Counterstrike, but it's spaceships" phase a few years back and has never really recovered the fine balance it had on launch so these encounters are no longer a challenge, but just a "you lose" button. So you basically have 3 options;

1/ Play in Solo or PG (which can still be dodgy) or

2/ Put up with occasional gankings and just respawn;

3/ Try to build you own ultra-survivable ship and either beat the gankers at their own game (dubious) or just be able to survive their antics until H/Wake (grad B stuff, lots of HRPs, Engineering and so on - but it'll fly like a pig...)

So much for "Play you way", really. it was fun whilst it lasted.

One thing FD could do (I think they could) is reintroduce the escape pod. If you bail out then you don't "die", you data is protected etc etc etc and you have to pay less insurance and your cargo is insured as well and it's generally a less annoying experience. The total loss would be a jump to a nearby station of your choice and a reduced rebuy cost - even your missions wouldn't go away. That would take the sting out of it a little for the victims.

 

[Ashnak]

...... YOU ARE INVULNERABLE WHILE ON THE PAD. Use this to your advantage to try to lock contacts on your radar.....

Doesn't work. Tried it a couple of nights ago at Deciat. There was a party going on - light show and everything, but nobody bothered me. When taking off, I tried to check the radar after getting up to the surface - nope. All you get is the pad view . Radar only goes active after takeoff at a few meters height. Made it out again without apparently anybody noticing me (which is kind of the point of this ship...).

 

[Morbad]

Doesn't work. Tried it a couple of nights ago at Deciat. There was a party going on - light show and everything, but nobody bothered me. When taking off, I tried to check the radar after getting up to the surface - nope. All you get is the pad view . Radar only goes active after takeoff at a few meters height. Made it out again without apparently anybody noticing me (which is kind of the point of this ship...).

You can still target nearby contacts with the left panel to get their direction and distance. They will also be basic scanned if they fly within your forward sensor arc.