General / Off-Topic Is it wrong to just drop everything and pursue a life of blissful isolation?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 110222
  • Start date

Shinji Ikari

Shinji Ikari
Morbad said:
If you think the Soviet Union, China, or Cambodia were ever even vaguely good examples of communist governments or society, you'd be mistaken.

Name one period in the history of any of the supposedly "communist" regimes that were or are in control of any of the nations in your book, where there was communal ownership of production or a classless society? I'll save you the trouble...there weren't any. These regimes evolved into autocratic dictatorships where the party owned everything and the people owned nothing, with the proletariat just as disenfranchised as before. That's not communism. That's not even some Marxist transistional period. That's what happens when power hungry groups sell a line of horseshite to oppressed masses and quickly become oppressors in turn. Almost any ideology can be a catalyst for this sort of thing, all it has to do is promise something better to people that have no other recourse.
Click to expand...

I just read this while goofing around Science Direct. Is this one such example of a good communist state?

"San Marino is usually remembered as the first country to freely elect a communist government. This happened in 1945 when a coalition of communists and left-wing socialists won a majority of seats in the Grand Council. Although the communists were in control for twelve years, it is noteworthy that the republic never became a collectivist state nor established state controls over the economy. In fact, some positive steps were taken under its regime, particularly the provision of free medical care for all citizens and the staving off of unemployment through public works programs."
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
knowles2 said:
Humans are lazy, they invent things to make their lives as lazy as possible. Every invention was invented to allow us to be just that bit more lazy. It been that way for tens of thousands of years, it will be that way for as long as we as a species exists.
Click to expand...
This is true, but some techniques are also created to replace the humans in order to no longer suffer the human constraints and maximize the profits, at the risk of a total dehumanization of the society.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Gregg Rulz ok said:
I just read this while goofing around Science Direct. Is this one such example of a good communist state?

"San Marino is usually remembered as the first country to freely elect a communist government. This happened in 1945 when a coalition of communists and left-wing socialists won a majority of seats in the Grand Council. Although the communists were in control for twelve years, it is noteworthy that the republic never became a collectivist state nor established state controls over the economy. In fact, some positive steps were taken under its regime, particularly the provision of free medical care for all citizens and the staving off of unemployment through public works programs."
Click to expand...

A representative democracy that elects a communist party to power does not automatically become a communist state. The machinery of democracy and the San Marino constitution remained intact and functional, at least until the constitutional crisis in 1957. If the socialist-communist coalition had been able to use those events to stage a successful coup, then maybe they could have transformed the nation into a functional communist state, but that's highly uncertain.

There haven't been any communist states. Even the former Soviet Union and current single-party states run by parties subscribing to communist ideology have not claimed to have achived communism. Most claim to be socialist states working toward a communist society. Historically, most such states have wound up as disfunctional autocracies instead.
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Robin of Spiritwood said:
Superior education is not a dodge.

Brain studies on Conservatives show a preference for noun usage, which underlies the problem here. If something has a label, Conservatives consider it as fixed. Using adjectives instead causes them heightened uncertainty.

Eg a "Communist government" means a Government with the ideals of Communism to normal people. But Conservatives cannot separate that concept from the label, so to them ANY government with the label is "Communist". This leads to multiple erroneous conclusions, like assuming Democratic Socialism is the same as a Dictatorship with the word "Socialism" in the title, or National Socialism being the same as the Swedish system.

This is a defect in linguistic wiring, it has no bearing on cognitive function. Nobody's dodging reality here. We are trying to explain it to you.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...of_Politics-or_Why_Conservatives_Prefer_Nouns
Click to expand...
Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot would all beg to disagree with your crowd's absurd goalpost shifting. The amount of ignorance and deliberate mis-information on the forum is simply astonishing, and one has to wonder whether it's just the privilege of the era we live in or deliberate obfuscation by genuine communist sympathizers who envision a world ran along these lines.

The bottom line is this, gents: it doesn't MATTER what the ideal in the manual of communism says, or how rosy it appears in theory, when it leads down the road to such atrocities that are well documented and widely known. Show me any example of where communism lead to an outcome where you would want to live and raise your family.
 

Shinji Ikari

Shinji Ikari
jasonbarron said:
Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot would all beg to disagree with your crowd's absurd goalpost shifting. The amount of ignorance and deliberate mis-information on the forum is simply astonishing, and one has to wonder whether it's just the privilege of the era we live in or deliberate obfuscation by genuine communist sympathizers who envision a world ran along these lines.

The bottom line is this, gents: it doesn't MATTER what the ideal in the manual of communism says, or how rosy it appears in theory, when it leads down the road to such atrocities that are well documented and widely known. Show me any example of where communism lead to an outcome where you would want to live and raise your family.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind living in San Marino provided I learn italian.
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
jasonbarron said:
Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot would all beg to disagree with your crowd's absurd goalpost shifting. The amount of ignorance and deliberate mis-information on the forum is simply astonishing, and one has to wonder whether it's just the privilege of the era we live in or deliberate obfuscation by genuine communist sympathizers who envision a world ran along these lines.

The bottom line is this, gents: it doesn't MATTER what the ideal in the manual of communism says, or how rosy it appears in theory, when it leads down the road to such atrocities that are well documented and widely known. Show me any example of where communism lead to an outcome where you would want to live and raise your family.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, all those communist guys were massive jerks and deserve the scorn they get. Also, have you seen Death of Stalin yet? You'd love it.

That said...

My own country, the United States, is not a place I would want to raise a family either. Big reason I say this is I believe there's a lot of value in pointing the finger at our own failings. It's all fine and good to talk about failed communist states and whether they were truly communist or not and this and that... but I don't live there. I live here.
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Phisto Sobanii said:
My own country, the United States, is not a place I would want to raise a family either. Big reason I say this is I believe there's a lot of value in pointing the finger at our own failings. It's all fine and good to talk about failed communist states and whether they were truly communist or not and this and that... but I don't live there. I live here.
Click to expand...

I can understand. The United States is a violent country where the law of the jungle reigns and the social assistance is apparently underdeveloped.

The USA can be a fantastic country but there is the dark side too.
 
Last edited:

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
Patrick_68000 said:
However we cannot compare the Switzerland with the United States

There are no regular mass killings in Switzerland like in the United States.
Click to expand...

Obviously those are a large issue. I live less than 10 minutes driving from one of the major shootings in the past few years and have very close friends, both pro and anti guns, that were affected by it. People are working to address the issue and make it better. To simply dismiss us all as savages is idiotic in the extreme.

We're humans. All the good. All the bad. Everything in between.

Take the advice I give myself regarding these issues. Mind your business.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
jasonbarron said:
Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot would all beg to disagree with your crowd's absurd goalpost shifting. The amount of ignorance and deliberate mis-information on the forum is simply astonishing, and one has to wonder whether it's just the privilege of the era we live in or deliberate obfuscation by genuine communist sympathizers who envision a world ran along these lines.

The bottom line is this, gents: it doesn't MATTER what the ideal in the manual of communism says, or how rosy it appears in theory, when it leads down the road to such atrocities that are well documented and widely known. Show me any example of where communism lead to an outcome where you would want to live and raise your family.
Click to expand...

None of them were communists they were all murderous dictators who used communist propaganda to gain popular support to set themselves up. The biggest problem with communism is that people simply don't measure up to it as they never apply the rules to themselves, their friends or their wives tennis partners.

Its a bit like the myth of Hitler being an atheist, its only spread to denigrate the thing inaccurately attached to him without a clear focus on the individual themselves.

(yeah yeah Godwins law)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom