Is there a defence against torpedo + ramming attacks inside a station?

[NecasekO]

I recently lost 2 trading Cutters to organized wing attacks inside a CG station, while docking. First, I got hit by reverb torpedoes while going through the station slot, losing my shield. While the torpedo ship got destroyed by station in a few seconds, other ships either opened fire or started ramming my ship, knocking it around and making it impossible to dock. So the attackers lost a ship or two as well, but they don't care. It also means they are "clean" for each attack.

My Cutter is fully A rated and modded, with around 1600 MJ of resistant shield and 1200 armor, using a single 5D MRP. I don't care about the rebuy costs as I have too much money anyway but I lost a good fighter pilot and I'm also interested whether, in theory, I could have survived.

I saw that one of the attacking ships was a Cobra Mk4 armed with 5 torpedo launchers but I'm not sure about the others. I was too busy trying not to collide with station walls while getting to my landing pad to study all the player ships around.

So I have some questions:
1. Is it possible to avoid torpedoes while flying a very big ship through the station slot or approaching the landing pad? I obviously can't boost away or maneuver to avoid the attack.
2. Am I right in thinking that ramming attacks are only punished with a fine, until the other ship is destroyed? And if the attacker is careful to go under 100 m/s for the last few percent of damage they would actually remain clean after they caused ship destruction?

 

[GG7]

Attacks inside stations are considered GRIEFING by the majority of players, as well as Frontier. I would suggest reporting and blocking those players who engage in this behavior.

The new rules and blocking features Frontier is working on for the 2.4 release will hopefully give legit players expanded options beyond what we have now in dealing with the GTA 5 Online types.

(AKA: The low skilled IDIOT BRIGADE)

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Fire off an ECM. torps will hit the station, cobra will be vapourised.

Or just use solo mode until FD fix it.

 

[dayrth]

I think you are right about the ramming attacks, but that is one thing that will be addressed in the new karma system when it comes in.

As for defence against torpedoes you can try three things. First there is the crazy Ivan. Head directly at the attacking ship. If you can get REAL close before they fire the torpedoes will not have time to arm before hitting you so will do no damage. Torpedoes take about 2.5 seconds to arm (there is a reason it's called a CRAZY Ivan*). Seeker missiles take about 0.5 seconds and dumfires have no arming time.

Second (if you are near a station/outpost), get within the no fire zone asap. It wont stop them launching at you but the station will then open up on them.

Best defence though is carry a point defence turret. Really effective against the slow torpedoes and not bad against other missiles (not so good against packhounds though).

*'Crazy Ivan' originates from the cold war. Russian submarine commanders would use this tactic to try to avoid being torpedoed by British/American hunter killer subs. Get the timing just a bit wrong though and the attacker couldn't miss.

 

[Stigbob]

Log back in open your comms tab, click on the little watchface this lists the CMDR's you've been instanced with in reverse chronological order. Get the names from the right time period (go either side if not sure) report it to FDEV as griefing and explain the loadouts used, they will be able to discount anyone without the griefer loadout so don't worry about reporting innocents. Add them all to your block list.

 

[NecasekO]

Thanks for the replies, I'd just like to clarify that I'm not looking to report, block or avoid those players. One of them actually was the infamous wizard who I assume must have been reported and blocked way too many times already. I want to find out whether there is a legitimate way to survive.

I'm afraid that charging the attacker is not an option with a slow ship, inside a station full of players - it's very difficult to even find a possible attacker in the environment. And I did survive the torpedo attack and the torpedo ship did get destroyed by station fire in a few seconds so it is not a big issue by itself. The problem is that multiple attackers can use a "alpha strike" disposable ship to soften the target and then kill it quickly either by weapons fire or through ramming, while the station is too busy dealing with multiple hostiles or doesn't even react at all (in case of ramming).

 

[GG7]

Thanks for the replies, I'd just like to clarify that I'm not looking to report, block or avoid those players. One of them actually was the infamous wizard who I assume must have been reported and blocked way too many times already. I want to find out whether there is a legitimate way to survive.

I'm afraid that charging the attacker is not an option with a slow ship, inside a station full of players - it's very difficult to even find a possible attacker in the environment. And I did survive the torpedo attack and the torpedo ship did get destroyed by station fire in a few seconds so it is not a big issue by itself. The problem is that multiple attackers can use a "alpha strike" disposable ship to soften the target and then kill it quickly either by weapons fire or through ramming, while the station is too busy dealing with multiple hostiles or doesn't even react at all (in case of ramming).

Trying to out grief expert cheaters and A-Holes is a fool's errand. I suggest you take our advice and stop trying to compete with losers. These are illegitimate players and should not be given any consideration whatsoever.

StigBob provided you with some excellent advice in his post below:

Log back in open your comms tab, click on the little watchface this lists the CMDR's you've been instanced with in reverse chronological order. Get the names from the right time period (go either side if not sure) report it to FDEV as griefing and explain the loadouts used, they will be able to discount anyone without the griefer loadout so don't worry about reporting innocents. Add them all to your block list.

 

[Lightspeed]

Cmdr CosmicSpaceHead's idea about using the ECM against the torpedoes is a good idea, if you can react fast enough. Bind the ECM to a key that you can reach quickly. You won't have to hold it down for long before releasing, because they are at such short range. But it's a bit tight in there, and reaction would have to be pretty darn quick.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Log back in open your comms tab, click on the little watchface this lists the CMDR's you've been instanced with in reverse chronological order. Get the names from the right time period (go either side if not sure) report it to FDEV as griefing and explain the loadouts used, they will be able to discount anyone without the griefer loadout so don't worry about reporting innocents. Add them all to your block list.

Fdev Acted on Cheaters during the Engineers Day wipe.. Fdev does act.

It would be nice to see Fdev act on these kinds of players and remove them from the game.

This kind of Station griefing really needs to be acted on by fdev.

'Acted on'

 

[Darth Ender]

Fdev could solve station camping by a stricter weapons ban on all ships within the nfz. Activating hardpoints can result in Kos. Rather than firing.

Along with a more robust fighter deployment to chase violaters out of the instance. All wanted deaths would respawn at one of 5 stations chosen by fdev to be out of the way stations where there is little to no activity.

Simple, no need to break immersion.

 

[Kzak]

No improvement until 2.4 hits, I'm afraid. But you are welcome to join us in the Mobius PvE group anytime, the PvP brigade isn't there.

 

[NecasekO]

Blocking players does not improve my piloting or tactical skills and doesn't prevent the same type of attack in the future. If FDev wanted to remove these types of players from the game they would have done that long ago since it's the same bunch of players attacking clean ships at every single CG for the past year or more. I appreciate the advice, it is valid but doesn't seem like the correct way to me personally.

Anyway, so in theory, does ECM work if my ship is almost stationary and torpedoes are launched at close range? How fast would I need to react to missile warning to actually avoid getting hit? I do have 2 PD turrets and those are completely useless against torpedoes in my experience.

 

[Stigbob]

Fdev Acted on Cheaters during the Engineers Day wipe.. Fdev does act.

It would be nice to see Fdev act on these kinds of players and remove them from the game.

This kind of Station griefing really needs to be acted on by fdev.

'Acted on'

I've been waiting for action on station griefing since 2014, the first technique I remember was idiots firing dumbfires anywhere near docked ships with point defenses which would fire at the missiles hit the station and then the station would destroy the innocents. It was a side effect of attacking landing ships, and it led to the missile nerf.

Same old problem and the same old names.

It really is pointless waiting for FDEV to act, just block them all and fix the game for yourself.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Anyway, so in theory, does ECM work if my ship is almost stationary and torpedoes are launched at close range? How fast would I need to react to missile warning to actually avoid getting hit? I do have 2 PD turrets and those are completely useless against torpedoes in my experience.

PD are useless on Torpedoes, they have too many hitpoints for the PD to take down.
Someone does test I believe, 7 PD Vs 1 Toro. Torp wins. Lol

An ECM burst, if timed right, will send all effected Torpedoes on a random flight path, away from your ship.
Inside a dock, they'll just slam in to the walls and detonate harmlessly. (Unless someone is unlucky enough to be in their way!)
You do need to be quick. You'll have to experiment with an ECM.
But DO test it within the dock on a ship you can afford to lose. I don't know if setting one off inside with count as a hostile act and get you destroyed.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Lightspeed]

Fdev could solve station camping by a stricter weapons ban on all ships within the nfz. Activating hardpoints can result in Kos. Rather than firing.

Please no ! The number of times I have activated hardpoints by mistake ...... [where is it]

 

[Morbad]

I recently lost 2 trading Cutters to organized wing attacks inside a CG station, while docking. First, I got hit by reverb torpedoes while going through the station slot, losing my shield. While the torpedo ship got destroyed by station in a few seconds, other ships either opened fire or started ramming my ship, knocking it around and making it impossible to dock. So the attackers lost a ship or two as well, but they don't care. It also means they are "clean" for each attack.

My Cutter is fully A rated and modded, with around 1600 MJ of resistant shield and 1200 armor, using a single 5D MRP. I don't care about the rebuy costs as I have too much money anyway but I lost a good fighter pilot and I'm also interested whether, in theory, I could have survived.

I saw that one of the attacking ships was a Cobra Mk4 armed with 5 torpedo launchers but I'm not sure about the others. I was too busy trying not to collide with station walls while getting to my landing pad to study all the player ships around.

So I have some questions:
1. Is it possible to avoid torpedoes while flying a very big ship through the station slot or approaching the landing pad? I obviously can't boost away or maneuver to avoid the attack.
2. Am I right in thinking that ramming attacks are only punished with a fine, until the other ship is destroyed? And if the attacker is careful to go under 100 m/s for the last few percent of damage they would actually remain clean after they caused ship destruction?

I was there, trying to warn off people and detonate mines with SLFs, mostly in vain. I also saw you come in. You were hit by mines, not torpedoes.

There were two CMDRs, both in identical looking Cobra Mk IIIs. One had quad mine (a mix of reverberating cascade and ion disruptor) launchers to knock out shields and hold the target still. The second had quad rapid fire seekers and would sit in a sheltered part of the station interior and fire missiles at the target's thrusters. They weren't ramming, except as attacks of opportunity, and they were both losing ships with each attack. This doesn't matter because Cobra's are cheap and because of how the bounty system works.

I was hit by their attack coming in to cash CG bounty vouchers, but as I was in a hybrid corvette with fairly extreme integrity and module protection, my ship survived, with moderate damage.

Only real defense for a trader is to have a lot of shield gen and thuster integrity, plus a few MRPs, plus enough hull to survive until the station can destroy them...or to wait until there is a clear path.

You could try having a friend clear a path with an SLF, but they may have wised up to this...
[video=youtube;3It5eqGbZuI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3It5eqGbZuI[/video]

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

PD are useless on Torpedoes, they have too many hitpoints for the PD to take down.
Someone does test I believe, 7 PD Vs 1 Toro. Torp wins. Lol

An ECM burst, if timed right, will send all effected Torpedoes on a random flight path, away from your ship.
Inside a dock, they'll just slam in to the walls and detonate harmlessly. (Unless someone is unlucky enough to be in their way!)
You do need to be quick. You'll have to experiment with an ECM.
But DO test it within the dock on a ship you can afford to lose. I don't know if setting one off inside with count as a hostile act and get you destroyed.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

Do PD's engage mines? , i always carry one on my courier but dont know if it helps with mines.

 

[Morbad]

Do PD's engage mines?

They do, but they are of little help against suicidal attackers that drop mines at point blank range. The PDTs will engage them, but you're already in the blast radius so it doesn't really matter.

 

[GG7]

Fdev could solve station camping by a stricter weapons ban on all ships within the nfz. Activating hardpoints can result in Kos. Rather than firing.

Along with a more robust fighter deployment to chase violaters out of the instance. All wanted deaths would respawn at one of 5 stations chosen by fdev to be out of the way stations where there is little to no activity.

Simple, no need to break immersion.

Agreed!

It also shouldn't be too hard for them to program ALL of the Starports to identify the deployment of delayed ordinance such as mines and destroy the violator the second they attempt to drop these on landing pads. They could do the same with those who are deliberately ramming other ships while inside the docking bay.

All of these griefer favorites are as cheap as cheap gets, and denote totally unskilled idiots attempting to gain attention. If they get their asses handed to them by the Starport over and over, they will either run out of rebuy $$, find something else to do with their screwed up lives, or attempt to learn to play the game properly.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that last one, since this type of player is traditionally the most inept, unskilled bozo on the planet.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

I was there, trying to warn off people and detonate mines with SLFs, mostly in vain. I also saw you come in. You were hit by mines, not torpedoes.

There were two CMDRs, both in identical looking Cobra Mk IIIs. One had quad mine (a mix of reverberating cascade and ion disruptor) launchers to knock out shields and hold the target still. The second had quad rapid fire seekers and would sit in a sheltered part of the station interior and fire missiles at the target's thrusters. They weren't ramming, except as attacks of opportunity, and they were both losing ships with each attack. This doesn't matter because Cobra's are cheap and because of how the bounty system works.

I was hit by their attack coming in to cash CG bounty vouchers, but as I was in a hybrid corvette with fairly extreme integrity and module protection, my ship survived, with moderate damage.

Only real defense for a trader is to have a lot of shield gen and thuster integrity, plus a few MRPs, plus enough hull to survive until the station can destroy them...or to wait until there is a clear path.

You could try having a friend clear a path with an SLF, but they may have wised up to this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3It5eqGbZuI

Muy bien..!