Engineers Is there any reason to use lasers over MCs?

Eszi

E
Advantages of multi-cannons:
- crazy dps with G5 overcharge
- easy to switch damage types - incendiary rounds convert damage to thermal, increase damage by 8% at the cost of increasing heat (which is very low to begin with)
- low power plant draw
- low capacitor draw
- low heat generation
- can increase damage further with synthesis

Advantages of lasers:
- infinite ammo
- no reloads
- no projectile travel time

The problems with lasers start when you try to engineer them, no G5 overcharge means that they will always be behind on damage, and even when modded with overcharged (max G4 pulse, G3 burst, none for beam), the added jitter will pretty much counter anything you gain in terms of dps, while also murdering your capacitor.
Switching damage type to kinetic is also not a viable option - can be only done on bursts, converts only half of the damage and adds 3 deg jitter, which is 3 times more than you can get with the worst G1 overcharge roll
 

Boomer Kay

B
Thermal weapons have a huge damage advantage over kinetic on shields.

2x 1G Multicannon -> 6dps vs. shield
2x 1F Cannon -> 7.4dps vs. shield
2x 1G Pulse laser -> 14.9dps vs. shield
2x 1G burst laser -> 15.5dps vs. shield
2x 1G beam laser -> 18.4dps vs. shield

That's unmodded values.
With 4 pips to weapons and A grade Power Distributor, you can keep firing pulse lasers .. forever.
 

SCTrojanbulldog

SCTrojanbulldog
Boomer Kay said:
Thermal weapons have a huge damage advantage over kinetic on shields.

2x 1G Multicannon -> 6dps vs. shield
2x 1F Cannon -> 7.4dps vs. shield
2x 1G Pulse laser -> 14.9dps vs. shield
2x 1G burst laser -> 15.5dps vs. shield
2x 1G beam laser -> 18.4dps vs. shield

That's unmodded values.
With 4 pips to weapons and A grade Power Distributor, you can keep firing pulse lasers .. forever.
Click to expand...

This is very correct!!!! That's why I have three medium burst turrets on my Cutter. Also, keep in mind there's no size penalty with shield damage. That's why I keep my c3 and c4 HP reserved for kinetics and c2 c1s are where I'll place thermals.
 

Boomer Kay

B
Eszi said:
You can use incendiary rounds to convert damage of mcs to thermal
Click to expand...

Yes, that increases your dps by 60ish % vs. shields, since the resistence of shields to Thermal is -20% and to kinetic +40%
2x 1G Multicannon -> 10dps vs. shield
2x 1G Pulse laser -> 14.9dps vs. shield

Larger Weapons the difference is even higher. (f.ex. a vulture: )
2x 3G Multicannon -> 16.6dps vs. shield (26.5 if converted to thermal)
2x 3G Pulse laser -> 35.5dps vs. shield

Vs. Hull (against another stock Vulture, since Hull damage is hull hardness dependent - and mitigated by HRP resistances)
2x 3G MC -> 33.2
2x 3G Pulse -> 29

If you try to maximize DPS against a "mixed" target, I found having a mixed loadout (depending on the ship) the best solution.
 
Last edited:

Truesilver

Truesilver
Incendiary g5 overcharged multi-cannons are currently overwhelmingly popular in PvP because their excellent DPE and consequently high EvS facilitate stacking.
 
Last edited:

Eszi

E
Boomer Kay said:
2x 3G Multicannon -> 16.6dps vs. shield (26.5 if converted to thermal)
2x 3G Pulse laser -> 35.5dps vs. shield
Click to expand...
I'll use this one as an example (assuming gimballs):
DPS of 1 large pulse = 14,8
DPS of 1 large MC = 18,9

With -20% resist to thermal:
pulse = 17,7
MC = 22,6
2 pulses = 35,5
2 MCs = 45,3
2 overcharged MCs 73~82, depending on how good you roll
 

Boomer Kay

B
Euklides Diophant said:
It is really only due to the resistances of shields, as soon as shields get modded the resistances is most likely equalized making raw dps favourable.
Click to expand...

The huge advantage is caused by shield resistances, yes. But if you get some incendiary MCs and your opponent mods his shield resistances to .. thermal .. you lose as well. And if you keep them kinetic, well, you suffer the initial penalty.

PvE wise - those ships aren't particularly tough or modded - not even the elite ones - and not too smart. You want to get trough their shields before they can start spamming SCBs (I did consider PAs, but then again .. I'm too lazy to practice with PAs :D ) or just keep whittling them down til they run out of SCBs (haven't seen those NPCs with endless SCBs yet - maybe one of those exotic bugs?). ^^


I'll use this one as an example (assuming gimballs):
DPS of 1 large pulse = 14,8
DPS of 1 large MC = 18,9
Click to expand...

That'st the dps without reloads.
The "sustained" dps is 13.8 for the multicannon. If you could manually reload them, that might look differently.
And you only have about 7:30 minutes of constant fire until you run out of ammo, and once you're completely out of ammo, the fight is over.
PvP looks differently, too I guess - large MCs have 4km range over the 3km of PLs and ammo or sustain are not that much of an issue?
PvE you can have a very high "time on target", since they don't manouver that unpredictably.
 
Last edited:

StiTch

StiTch
From a raw damage perspective, MCs are in an incredible strong position atm-especially in PvP, where the ammo issue isn't actually an issue, and because in PvP a lot of the more competent CMDRs will use mods to modify shield resistances to be effectively flat anyway; ammo aside, that's the main reason to use lasers gone as it is.

I won't go over the other reasons, because OP has covered them already. The only thing I would mention is that due to the projectile travel speed thing already mentioned, MCs are remarkably less effective at swapping to fixed during chaff. Back before 2.1 my FDL used to use a couple of burst lasers, and the only reason I used gimballed was for sub-system targeting - with chaff up and reverting to fixed, I practically never missed anyway.

A single thermal shock beam also seems to be effective at sustaining heat gain on thermal shock builds in addition to thermal shock MCs, and with mods the cap drain isn't nearly as big an issue as it used to be.

But they're small points, and for raw "okay I'mma beat the hell out of you", a full set of G5 incendiary MCs is frankly overpowered as hell atm for PvP engagements. For PvE...well that depends on whether you're competent enough to not take much damage over the course of a couple thousand bullets, and isn't an issue if you don't mind synthesising ammo. Which frankly after the changes to mat drops on planet surfaces is hardly even a consideration.
 
Last edited:

Marak

Marak
I'm currently playing with the Lvl4 Focused pulse lasers and they're fun. It's great having a range of 5 - 5.5km with added armour piercing for sniping modules.

Not so good if they're faster than you but reverse flying gives quite a bit of sniping time :D
 

Frenotx

Frenotx
Have you ever noticed that when someone is defending the gunship, keelback, or cobra iv, they say, "See it's not so bad.. Look how much damage it does loaded down with MCs!" That's not because those ships secretly don't suck; it's because MCs are just that good.

They say you can't polish a turd, but I'd be willing to bet it could be a formidable threat with enough multicannons strapped on to it.
 

EdzUp

EdzUp
Having used both MC's and lasers I tend to return to lasers mainly because I can keep firing and exploring the galaxy, currently almost 4000ly from Sol means there isnt many ammo stations out here for me to 'refill' at so I tend to go lasers to defend myself out here.
 

Andrej

Andrej
Lasers have no rivals in terms of fixed weapon. As person who is like to use fixed weapon very much, lasers is my primary chose, railgun nice too, but lasers is better IMHO.

But I am really miss my artillery cobra from alfa :(
 
Last edited:

Limoncello Lizard

Limoncello Lizard
I have a Vulture that I've fitted twin fixed pulse lasers. Each with lvl4 efficient weapon and the scramble effect. I love it.

It is by far the most fun I've ever had in a CZ.
 

Some1else

Some1else
For me it's all MC's. I loved them before engineers, and now, WOW, just awesome! I use the efficient weapon, and a combo of incendiary, corrosive. Four pips to shields, and one to engines, and weapons. They will fire all day long and never over heat!

I call it, "Surrounded by Paradise!, and living the dream!":D

LLaP

S1E
 

Sunleader

Sunleader
Lasers got an Higher Base Damage against Shields unless the Shields are Modded against Lasers.
They also have the Advantage of some Experimental Effects which you cannot get on Projectile Weapons. Like the Ability to Disable Modules. Or Cause Damage through Shields.
Due to having no Travel Time. They are also the most Failsafe Weapon for Fixed Mounts. As they allow you to hit an Enemy on any Range by Simply Aiming at him. Without Requiring to Lead his Maneuvers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom