Issue Tracker: Planetary Tiling

[Alec Turner]

SERIOUS SUGGESTION

If this tiling is as rare as people claim (different people claim different things, so I have no idea what the truth is), could Frontier offer to manually change specific planet "seeds" for those very few broken planets? I honestly don't know how difficult this would be, but in theory it might be very easy. In other words, if tiled planets are just a bad roll of the dice, players could report those specific planets and ask Frontier to roll the dice again for that specific planet. It might be as easy as Dav writing a little script where he enters the system name and planet number and script generates a new seed for that planet, thus instantly fixing the planet. This way Frontier can fix the galaxy without rebooting the galaxy, one planet at a time (perhaps using the issue tracker and voting system to focus on the most popular tiled planets first).

I know, it's probably a dumb idea, but sometimes you gotta throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. It seems to me, at first glance, to be way easier to "reroll" a specific planet using the same terrain generation tech but different seed number (like throwing away a bad D&D character when the dice aren't in your favor) than to redesign the algorithms. Just a thought.

From what I've seen the tiling really isn't that bad or noticeable anymore (although what it implies is, namely that a planetary explorer can only set out fairly safe in the knowledge that what they will find over the horizon is more of the same).

It's really not the "tiling" mentioned in the OP that saddens me so much. It's more the phrase ...

"[changing the planetary tech] would inevitably take time away from developing and improving other elements such as performance, bug fixes, and new content. We cannot justify this level of change and a re-generation of the galaxy in Elite."

.. and especially the sign off ..

"This is unlikely to change in the future"

On the other hand maybe I'm reading too much into that and they really did just mean tiling specifically so perhaps we may still one day get improvements to the tech that generates mountains like this.

(and yes, I apologise for using that example after promising I wouldn't when someone fooled me with real world mountains that look just like it ... it's still ugly tho right?)

 

[Schattenmacher]

I have the feeling that the preferred innovation will increasingly be a rejection.

 

[Ian Skippy]

From what I've seen the tiling really isn't that bad or noticeable anymore (although what it implies is, namely that a planetary explorer can only set out fairly safe in the knowledge that what they will find over the horizon is more of the same).

It's really not the "tiling" mentioned in the OP that saddens me so much. It's more the phrase ...

"[changing the planetary tech] would inevitably take time away from developing and improving other elements such as performance, bug fixes, and new content. We cannot justify this level of change and a re-generation of the galaxy in Elite."

.. and especially the sign off ..

"This is unlikely to change in the future"

On the other hand maybe I'm reading too much into that and they really did just mean tiling specifically so perhaps we may still one day get improvements to the tech that generates mountains like this.

(and yes, I apologise for using that example after promising I wouldn't when someone fooled me with real world mountains that look just like it ... it's still ugly tho right?)

Personally my only issue with that one is the texturing. The shape itself is both plausible yet still fairly extreme.

 

[Thatchinho]

From what I've seen the tiling really isn't that bad or noticeable anymore (although what it implies is, namely that a planetary explorer can only set out fairly safe in the knowledge that what they will find over the horizon is more of the same).

It's really not the "tiling" mentioned in the OP that saddens me so much. It's more the phrase ...

"[changing the planetary tech] would inevitably take time away from developing and improving other elements such as performance, bug fixes, and new content. We cannot justify this level of change and a re-generation of the galaxy in Elite."

.. and especially the sign off ..

"This is unlikely to change in the future"

On the other hand maybe I'm reading too much into that and they really did just mean tiling specifically so perhaps we may still one day get improvements to the tech that generates mountains like this.

(and yes, I apologise for using that example after promising I wouldn't when someone fooled me with real world mountains that look just like it ... it's still ugly tho right?)

I think to follow what they meant, we need to go back to what Dr Ross said about what they’d done with the new tech.

Specifically, it had been completely reworked to make it expandable and extendable in the future so that a full rework would never be needed again.

So they’ve obviously invested a lot in that principle.

Given that, it’s fairly evident that fundamental changes to how the new planet tech works is not on the cards.

Those expansions and extensions to it will still very much be on the cards.

I would imagine that improvements to the performance of the planet tech works are still on the cards in principle, in the context of it not changing the fundamental principles of how it works.

 

[Alec Turner]

Personally my only issue with that one is the texturing. The shape itself is both plausible yet still fairly extreme.

Plausible I guess I'm OK with - but that's typical of what I see everywhere. That's common. The mountains that look like mountains (to my mind), those are the ones that seem rare.

For example.

But perhaps I just need to explore more.

 

[Alec Turner]

I think to follow what they meant, we need to go back to what Dr Ross said about what they’d done with the new tech.

Specifically, it had been completely reworked to make it expandable and extendable in the future so that a full rework would never be needed again.

So they’ve obviously invested a lot in that principle.

Given that, it’s fairly evident that fundamental changes to how the new planet tech works is not on the cards.

Those expansions and extensions to it will still very much be on the cards.

I would imagine that improvements to the performance of the planet tech works are still on the cards in principle, in the context of it not changing the fundamental principles of how it works.

I guess what I'm struggling with is ... imagine an extension to the tech that adds a whole load of new tile sets allowing for more variable, intricate, narrow and harded edged valley and ravine systems. If they're unwilling to re-generate the galaxy of Elite (by which I assume they mean planet surfaces) then how can they apply that extension without upsetting existing topography and thus requiring a fresh bake-in of surface installations etc? I guess that's why I wanted them to improve things now while it's not entirely too late. The only other possibility I can see is that they open further types of (currently unlandable) planets in the future and are free to add enhanced topography to those without upsetting the existing ones.

 

[Orvidius]

Thanks for the update, Bruce. While disappointing, I understand why this is the right decision. Most of the time I don't notice the tiling anyway. Except for the occasional more egregious case, it's usually something you have to look for to notice. Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The only other possibility I can see is that they open further types of (currently unlandable) planets in the future and are free to add enhanced topography to those without upsetting the existing ones.

Thats how I interpret what they said earlier.

 

[MacIntoc]

Thats a pretty... interesting thing to say. Just because you have more money than someone who can 'only' afford a console or basic pc doesnt mean you are 'more concerned' with the game than others.

Ugh.

Or their passion drove them to greater "sacrifices".

Specifically, it had been completely reworked to make it expandable and extendable in the future so that a full rework would never be needed again.

Wich is a fail considering the answer of Bruce. Less than 1 years later a required change can't be done without reworking it.

SERIOUS SUGGESTION

If this tiling is as rare as people claim (different people claim different things, so I have no idea what the truth is), could Frontier offer to manually change specific planet "seeds" for those very few broken planets? I honestly don't know how difficult this would be, but in theory it might be very easy. In other words, if tiled planets are just a bad roll of the dice, players could report those specific planets and ask Frontier to roll the dice again for that specific planet. It might be as easy as Dav writing a little script where he enters the system name and planet number and script generates a new seed for that planet, thus instantly fixing the planet. This way Frontier can fix the galaxy without rebooting the galaxy, one planet at a time (perhaps using the issue tracker and voting system to focus on the most popular tiled planets first).

I know, it's probably a dumb idea, but sometimes you gotta throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. It seems to me, at first glance, to be way easier to "reroll" a specific planet using the same terrain generation tech but different seed number (like throwing away a bad D&D character when the dice aren't in your favor) than to redesign the algorithms. Just a thought.

Why not. But wouldn't that make the tiling effect even more visible when decently hidden, since it's an incentive to train recognizing tiles ?

 

[CMDR Von Abrahart]

Why would anyone want to tile a planet anyway - that‘s a hell of a lot of grout and spacers.

 

[thistle]

Why would anyone want to tile a planet anyway - that‘s a hell of a lot of grout and spacers.

True. Use planet-wide interlocking pvc panels, job's a good 'un.

 

[Old Duck]

(and yes, I apologise for using that example after promising I wouldn't when someone fooled me with real world mountains that look just like it ... it's still ugly tho right?)

It definitely doesn't inspire me to buy Odyssey. Though after playing those "other space games with planets" (you've seen my pics in OA's Discord), I tend to not visit planet surfaces in Elite unless I have to, even in Horizons. These days I'm more interested in how Elite's planets look from space. If the very obvious tiling seen from orbit has been fixed, well that's something at least. Like you, there are other things that bother me about the new planet tech, like Odyssey's popcorn stucco mountain ranges as seen from space. And like you, I doubt anything in planet tech will change going forward.

But I also see the other side of the argument, in that if the new tech can generate amazing planets, even if they are rare, that would at least give me something to look for as an explorer. I already weed through dozens of boring systems looking for those needle-in-a-haystack planets in Horizons, so I could in theory do this in Odyssey Lite as well. And if Frontier is serious about fixing performance and bugs as this thread suggests (though I have my doubts), eventually Odyssey might cross my personal threshold of "not inspired" to "inspired".

 

[Ian Skippy]

Or their passion drove them to greater "sacrifices".

Whatever makes you feel good about yourselves. As somene with a VR setup, as well as an 48" 4k OLED, I would be absolutely disgusted with myself if I ever think that the stuff I own means I care more, or that my opinion is more worth, than people who cant afford it.

 

[Niamh Kaminari]

I've unfortunately got a few bodies I frequent in the bubble that have that tiling "crumpled paper" effect from the early Photoshops, depending on the lighting it's pretty noticeable. Other than that, it was never really on the top of my list. I'd still prefer if they fixed all the gamma/contrast/lighting issues, restored most of the missing effects from Horizons and got performance up to an acceptable level first.

Same, for me it's the ridiculous amount of disconnects and Braben Tunnels making physical multi-crew too much of a hassle to bother with. Great idea on paper until you try to use it and realize you can't reliably take anyone anywhere...

Generally when I see the tiling issue it's in just the heatmap anyways, and not the visual aspect of the planet, which is even less of a bother. Big whoop if the scanned blue area tiles, I'll just pretend that's the DSS malfunctioning or some at that point if that planet still looks okay.

 

[Ischyro]

The tiling itself is not an issue for me. Forgo it if you need to as long as this will benefit all the other areas that need fixing in Odyssey. But I sure hope that I won't be seeing any post about "performance fixes cancellation" in the future.

 

[Frop]

Same, for me it's the ridiculous amount of disconnects and Braben Tunnels making physical multi-crew too much of a hassle to bother with. Great idea on paper until you try to use it and realize you can't reliably take anyone anywhere...

Don't worry, they tried that during their last live stream and instantly got disconnected on the very first jump.

 

[Old Duck]

Or stick a tourist beacon on them and put them into the lore, could have a Codex for ticking off curious repeating patterns in the natural world.

Or better yet, a permit lock! Permit lock all systems with tiled planets, requiring a player to become allied with a new terraforming faction in order to visit those systems. The lore could be that these planets are used to test new terraforming techniques (with some tests going horribly wrong).

 

[MacIntoc]

Whatever makes you feel good about yourselves. As somene with a VR setup, as well as an 48" 4k OLED, I would be absolutely disgusted with myself if I ever think that the stuff I own means I care more, or that my opinion is more worth, than people who cant afford it.

So you think your opinion should not be worth more than others ? It seem that's the case. So what are you complaining about ?
And sometime, it's not a question of afford. You can buy a VR setup even if you can't afford it. Passion have almost no limit.

Ah ! I don't have a VR setup

 

[zimms]

Or better yet, a permit lock! Permit lock all systems with tiled planets, requiring a player to become allied with a new terraforming faction in order to visit those systems. The lore could be that these planets are used to test new terraforming techniques (with some tests going horribly wrong).

And you only get the permit by signing an NDA.

 

[DrinkyBird]

So you think your opinion should not be worth more than others ? It seem that's the case. So what are you complaining about ?

I have spent about £115 on this game since I started playing. That includes pre-Arx cosmetics, the Odyssey deluxe alpha pack, and Arx. Doesn't include the base game and Horzions as my friend gifted me those. I haven't bought any equipment specifically for this game; I play with a mouse and keyboard on a flat-screen monitor (I spent £300 on a VR headset but don't use it for Elite).
How much is my opinion worth? (Hint: it doesn't matter.)

And sometime, it's not a question of afford. You can buy a VR setup even if you can't afford it. Passion have almost no limit.

Many would consider debt to be quite limiting.