It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
+1 for mentioning Jumpgate...And hey, from another old Jumpgate junkie. I flew with the Red Dwarfers (Quantar Rules!) for a couple of years [yesnod]
Hey thanks, i mentioned this because there are a lot of things this old MMO did right, that i cannot find in any other game at the moment. It's a bit sad that when we mention player driven economy we get an epidermic reaction from the Elite fanbase who just "dont want another Eve Online" which is plain wrong, a good economy system is just that, no need to compare to Eve. The result being, Elite has no meaningful economy. You can haul full loads in your trade Cutter and do next to zero impact on the local economy, even in remote locations where population is like in the thousands across one system.. And there's no manufacturing process (even driven by BGS) that makes hauling stuff meaningful in anyway. It's just a way to grind money, which as a consequence is the main goal for most players, who then quit when they have enough to afford all possible ships.
I'll mention jumpgate again, there having a cargo meant you needed an escort, all the time (game was PvP and one instance for everyone), so a good wing of fighters escorting a slow moving cargo was common sight, with the said cargo honking and announcing in all chat its arrival (took quite few kilometers just to brake before docking). Led to some fancy emergent gameplay.
Elite Dangerous is a lot more modern game, but its game engine (talking about economy, player interaction here) is very primitive compared to a game dating from 2001 ! We're taking 16 years ago... I also believe that Frontier Dev are able to do better.
 
(...) 2.4 could well be the "fleshing it out" update....a chance to go back & add more flesh to some of the more bare-bones content-like exploration & Power-play.
And hauling ! Economy and BGS need a lot of work. And community tools (in game chat, guilds...) Also being able to fly in fleets of more than 4 ships, or mixing wings and multicrew... Instancing and netcode are some of the worst parts here, holding back a lot of potential, it looks really like they went for a solo game and slapped a crude multiplayer ability on top of it. I wouldnt dislike a "2.4: the real MMO" patch...
 
Hey all,

I want to start this off with saying that I like the game and find it playable enough to have fun and I definitely got my money worth out of it. But in the last year, or more like since the horizons release, I feel like I'm in a positon where I have to write this here even tough my career goal is in the same area. I don't want to be offensive or anything, but this completely irks me and I simply can't understand what I'm going to say here, so maybe I will get some enlightment here.

What is actually happening in your development process, Frontier? I simply can't follow what takes so much time with what you actually create. But lets go through it!

Easier things first: Galnet is empty. I recently had to visualize some thesis about how to engage your community to co-create content with you. It seems like you completely missed every potential for that, seeing as how most of Galnet right now are summarizations of different stuff. You care about lore? Well, there's not much anymore. This was different once. And, to top it off, you have to go through all that summarization which won't interest you in the slightest if you are keen on lore. Why is the state so barren? Where is a simple writer to write out snippets of a pre-determined story? Where are incentives for user-creations? It feels like such a missed opportunity.

2) Powerplay + Engineering: There's enough criticism out there. From the endless grindfest² of Powerplay to the PvP-Balance gap of Engineered/Unengineered and need to do grindfest material gathering. The latter was patched to be made easier, but its still concerning on how the first iteration even came about. But, as said, not going into depth here. Powerplay was a missed opportunity and Engineering feels like forcing horizon(planet)-content.

3) Holo-Me. Finally! We have our character creator! It's well done and the transitions are nice, cudos to the programmers/artists/sound-designers. But now, after waiting half a year... microtransactions! Not a single available tattoo? Completely basic suits? I don't care you want to earn money with microtransactions, but to bring out such a anticipated feature with, in the end, half baked customization, feels awkward. It's a nice character creator, but it feels like theres not much, especially due to face limitation. I know, we don't see the character anyways, but if we already have a face-concentration, why are there so few options available? Like mentioned, no tatoos, no... future piercings, whatever the heck you can want. Again, it feels somewhat barebones and too limited. Why do I have to pay for some black ink in my face? Why are there just simple color variations of the most basic outfit? You really couldn't offer at least some *simple* alternatives? It feels... well, like a missed opportunity?

4) Multi-Crew. Yay, a friend can fly around with me! And... shoot some stuff with cannons. I really don't know what I expected. It's somewhat fun, but in the end... its... well... a missed opportunity for something more.

5) Planets. The current iterations we have. The great driving around on planets with some bases. So you obviously have a procedural generation for the planets. Who basically all look the same as they are moons. And don't feel different... as they are moons. It's fine. I accept that. But again, everything feels absolutely the same. There's no difference from Moon A to B in terms of gameplay except some materials you actually scope (and the ruins-events). Missions on moons feel barebones too. Why aren't, at least in the bubble near populated systems, some generated human bases with turrets and protective fliers? Or anything at all. To not make it barebones. Because again, it feels... like a missed opportunity.

6) Ship Customization. Well, I literally can't do anything without buying anything out of the store with additional money. Theres not even anything ingame to obtain to customize my ship. What is this? Why, just why, aren't there some goals? Your playerbase is big. There aren't only grinders who try this game out. You have to hook people to want some progression other than money(and thus ships). Its like the most basic concept one can think of. What happened here? Its, again, a missed opportunity and makes it feel even more cash-shoppy.

7) Background-Simulation. What is actually happening here? In the terms of "what does it actually do" ?. What is your code doing? We obviously don't have something persistent thats interacting with the players at all. We have some number tweeking with wares and minor faction influences and their spreading. Different people will have their own reasons to join powerplay and help minor factions, mainly due to roleplay reasons. That's cool, at least. But the Background-Simulation really feels to fall flat and to serve no real purpose concerning wares and trade.
But Minor Factions! I can have my own? AWESOME. Except for people who have to wait over 3 months to have it inserted. I simply can NOT comprehend how the insertion can last this long. I'm still waiting and I have no problems doing so, but others clearly want them integrated. So, you obviously have lists every time of, lets say, 30 new minor factions of players. You can't tell me that you can't take one guy after checking availability to simply insert them into the game for the next update. There has to be some interface in your code for this. There must be. I can't believe that you are writing code snippets for every insertion. Where is the automated system after accepting and checking? (Or even accepting and checking too).

8) 3rd-party Tools. Half of the time when trading I have to check on another website OUTSIDE the game where I can get something. Why? Its some g time in the future where everything is connected in some way(see Galnet) - But there is no ingame function to actually check that stuff? This seems like the first thing stations would want to publish to sell goods and get more traffic. Not to mention resource-route determination. Why do I have to switch OUT of the game to get stuff done efficiently? You clearly want me to loose every immersion possible, right? Failed opportunity.

9) I had something here, but I don't remember because the forum deleted half of my post after submitting and I'm loosing my steam. Passengers, Pirate Interdactions, you name it. But it was something different. Anyways, I wanted to get at the following:

Something is clearly wrong. And I mean clearly! I don't know what part in your team screws up though. Something has to. All the time since horizons release and it basically still feels like the absolute same game for me. Some small additions, but nothing big. Everything underwhelming, awkward or too obstruse to not be worth the effort. Why? Is management forcing bad decisions about the team? Are your game designers strictly bad because the different game modules all seem so barebones? Are they maybe limited by upper management and thus can't create creatively?
Obviously you are doing bug fixing. And adding content. But its so slow! Its so barebones! It's so underwhelming! I feel disappointed after every patch. This is a feeling your customer should not have. And I simply don't know what you are doing that its ending up like this. Some problem area I think has to be identified. Hell, at the current rate I even suspect that most developers are at Planet Safari and Planet Coasters and this game is being done on the side for some money upkeep and future possibilities. What the hell has gone wrong that I am thinking of this possibility?

As I said, I didn't want to come off as offensive. But I also want to know what others feel about this issue.
I will be going to bed so I won't comment immediately, but thanks for reading!
Fly safe! o7

You are not wrong.
 
I have do admit; considering how terrible this patch was bug-wise (lots of things broken, bugs from beta not fixed) and the general reaction from the community in general lately, I'm shocked FDEV hasn't released some sort of statement.

It has been a holiday weekend in the UK, IIRC. The head honchos have been out, most likely.

Probably should have released this week...but what do I know?
 
Last edited:
4-day holiday. Some places take their holidays more seriously than others. I don't know about Cambridge's jurisdiction, but there are places where it's genuinely illegal to work on a holiday (with the expected exceptions; emergency services etc).

Ah good point. In America we're lucky to get holidays at all. And even then we can still expect emails from our bosses.
 
Nice post, I agree 100% with opening post, got my rep, but unfortunately people leading the game design have not clear ideas on what fun is.... Well on streaming they demonstrated they dont know theyr own game, how to expect they will fix and change the game.....
I dont know, being playing for 2 years, still like it, but a big empty question Marker on the future of the game.
They need to hire a bunch of players that they know what to do and what game really needs.

my 2 words....
 
I don't know. I'd imagine the data base is rather large, but most of us generally run some pretty large storage solutions, so if a NAS was a requirement or even a server level machine, that shouldn't be too big an obstacle for die hard ED fans to overcome.

Fact is... Offline/Single Player Mode was part of the original concept for Elite Dangerous during the Kickstarter phase. It was dropped rather abruptly with not much in the way of an explanation later. This remains a very big sore spot with a lot of early backers. Especially when their reasons for having such and option are so clearly demonstrated over this last long holiday weekend.

Stellar forge isn't the problem...the whole of the number crunching is. See my above post with the video link. Watch it a few times. The game cannot be run on a single machine...not because of the size of the program...the design of it requires multiple servers....
 
4-day holiday. Some places take their holidays more seriously than others. I don't know about Cambridge's jurisdiction, but there are places where it's genuinely illegal to work on a holiday (with the expected exceptions; emergency services etc).

Actually there was an announcement & an attempt to fix the problems (not that I had any myself) over the Easter Weekend. People's cases aren't helped when they resort to outright lying to drive their points home.
 
A White Knight is someone who defends the game, no matter what the faults.

For all its bugs, the game still makes me happy and I still love to play it.

White Knight #8

I think I speak for pretty much everyone accessing the forums. For all its bugs, we still love to play that game. But, that doesn't mean we're blind to the point of not seeing what could be improved and, more importantly, to make it known.

I full agree with all points from the OP. There are a lot of missed opportunities. I think that the power that be at Frontier are mostly from the technical side. From a technical point of view, you can't complain that the game is weak. The graphics are stunning, planets and all. The stations are well done. Planetary settlements are also pretty good looking. The stars are rendered close to what they look like in real life. Some of the ships are truly awesome. The Commander Creator is nicely done, IMHO. The alien ruins and the alien ship showing is very well done. But, you see, all what I have just mentioned is from the technical aspect of the game. The problem is the gameplay, the game design that is suffering. I think that's basically what the OP is saying. Lot of awesome features that are not exploited to the full extent.
 
And hauling ! Economy and BGS need a lot of work. And community tools (in game chat, guilds...) Also being able to fly in fleets of more than 4 ships, or mixing wings and multicrew... Instancing and netcode are some of the worst parts here, holding back a lot of potential, it looks really like they went for a solo game and slapped a crude multiplayer ability on top of it. I wouldnt dislike a "2.4: the real MMO" patch...

I disagree. I already feel that hauling & BGS are fine as is......with at best a few tweaks here & there to make it a bit more responsive. Meanwhile Exploration, Power-Play & even Engineers are still very bare bones. Even Factions need more ways for us to interact with them.
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
This topic has run its course and is now moving away from the OP and into off-topic territory.

It's been re-opened for now, but please keep it on-topic, respectful and adhere to the forum rules please.
 
Last edited:
A lot of these concerns were building before the patch, and are seeming continually ignored even during AMA's and streams - now that the patch is out and nothing was addressed, things are bubbling over.

It would be great if official Community Managers would post more update/responses to community concerns, or simply reassuring the community that things are being looked at - rather than letting things spiral out of control until the volunteer mods have to lock things.

More community communication is far better than silence, isn't that the role of a CM?
 
Last edited:
I have do admit; considering how terrible this patch was bug-wise (lots of things broken, bugs from beta not fixed) and the general reaction from the community in general lately, I'm shocked FDEV hasn't released some sort of statement.

It's actually exactly how the other patches have been. They (almost) always release a major update before a weekend, with lots of bugs leftover from beta, lots of connection issues, and lots of people burning the forums down. And some people always say that's the worst update and the last one was better. Which isn't true at all. In fact, I wrote the very same response in 2.2 AND 2.1.

I think what's happening here is that our brains don't get enough oxygen when we rant and fall in hysteria. People forget to breath and that's why everyone suffers from amnesia after each major update.

Just joking BTW ;)
 
+1

Elite's game design continues to baffle me.

The game has the visuals, it has the excellent sound, it creates an enthralling fantasy space ship arcade flight model and then... it puts hour clocks in front of inventory management, it puts emphasis on the least engaging part of its ship controls during missions (supercruising around to find stuff instead of normal flight game mechanics), it promotes watching loading screens upon loading screens upon loading screens.

Basically the whole game design, from start to end, does not carry its weight. The game is held up by visuals, sound and engaging space ship controls, but somehow fails at being a game.
 
Last edited:
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom