It's time to revisit the PVP rebuy. Distant Ganks 2 makes the point.

[Chaparral]

This doesn't make any sense. In the past 4 years, Frontier have done nothing but increase the rate at which players progress, they even went as far as pretty much removing the only credit sinks that existed, with the (virtual) removal of maintenance cost and the removal of rebuy costs via the Engineers powercreep.

Also this isn't a F2P game with predatory monetization inextricably intertwined with the progression system to entice you into spending more: the only money Frontier gets from you is when you buy the game and when you buy paintjobs. Once you've bought the game you are only going to cost them money, unless you buy paintjobs which you aren't going to do if you aren't progressing fast enough to unlock new ships.

And considering how rare deadly PVP encounters are , even in the hottest spots like Engineer bases, even in Open, and how insignificant even a 50m rebuy is nowadays, now that nobody will do anything unless it pays a couple dozen millions per hour, I have a hard time seeing how Frontier would be relying specifically on PvP rebuys to do what you accuse them of trying to do.

Surely they have much better tools for that nefarious plan of forcing their players to play the game. For a start not everybody plays in Open, so why target only those players "who need positive social interaction"? Not everybody even plays in private groups... so if the idea is to slow down progression, wouldn't it make more sense to make NPCs, which everybody has to interact with, more dangerous, and simply to reduce the payouts throughout the game?

I'm afraid yours is just a crazy conspiracy theory that makes no sense before we even get to the issue of it being utterly unsubstanciated.

DW2 has pointed out quite clearly that where players congregate, PVP occurs.

PVE players congregate as a function of their desire for a positive social experience.

How many players signed up for DW2 (not an insignificant number)? How many were unable to join Fleetcom yet still attended (thousands - we know that from the kill count)?

Will the players that have had characters killed on the DW2 route have to invest more time to recover their losses?

These are kind of self-evident concepts.

Are you actually saying that FDEV is not conscious of the fact that PVE players enjoy positive collaborative social interaction?

Are you saying that FDEV is unaware that a PVP kill results in a rebuy/data loss / cargo loss / mission loss / bounty loss etc.?

 

[Vedmo]

And, to be fair, the attacker's bounty increases by the same amount

Black market sale as well, unless target was wanted, so probably no first discovery, and not sure of the value of exploration data on the black market.

I like the idea though!

 

[Amargosa]

And, to be fair, the attacker's bounty increases by the same amount

Bounty payouts for destroying human pirates should be increased to at least 30 mil a pop. So that PvP becomes a viable activity rather than a waste of time.

 

[Burke]

Black box recovery is useless if you lose your ship where I lost mine, inside the jet of a White Dwarf.

I tried to include White Dwarves in my path, because since Neutron Stars are so easy to use, I thought White Dwarves were the same easiness. Didn't know that it's nearly impossible with them because their jets barely extend beyond their oversized exclusion zones. Those stars are death traps. Type-Y brown dwarves have a way too oversized exclusion zone too, but at least they got no jets to die in.

So it can float there tempting others to their doom

 

[Chaparral]

I see you have learned nothing since your last experience.

Your insistence upon using such labels is an impediment to your enjoyment of the game.

PvE is not antithetical to PvP. It is simply a necessary component.

You are free to ignore PvP, but you do so to your own detriment if you insist on playing in open.

All I have ever seen is targets.

The hollow ones just squeal a lot more.

Thank you for being FDEV's tool to extract more play time. You're doing great!

 

[Amargosa]

So it can float there tempting others to their doom

I doubt anyone would ever get to see it, it was in an undiscovered system far away, lol.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I fondly remember the early days when you first started posting on this forum, at the time thinking about how much raw potential you had. Fast forward a couple of years and it's like I'm watching you graduate.

I'm so so proud right now.

I done got gud

 

[XanderVekk]

I'd be okay with an open PVE mode IF and ONLY IF:

We get an open only powerplay mode. Thus, both powerplay and BGS activities done outside of open PVP mode have no effect.

Sorry. You want to conquer the universe? Then prepare to defend it.

 

[Zaphod Hawke]

Thank you for being FDEV's tool to extract more play time. You're doing great!

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

You say that as if playing the game is somehow a bad thing.

I mean... it has become sort of boring killing the same people who refuse to learn over and over again, but what's a CMDR to do?

 

[CopperheadRat]

I really don't care how you play, as long as actions that are hostile to a PMF or Powerplay faction are done in open. Open PvE wouldn't change much; it would just be a giant PG. The problems we have in open PvP and PP wouldn't change, PvE activities wouldn't change. Given the current systems, nothing would change at all. It is not worth the time and effort to maintain an additional mode that does the same thing as say Mobius.

 

[Ephraim Stone]

I spent all my time at the DW2 mining CG in Solo or PG. If we had Open-PvE I would have played in that for a more social experience.

Yeah I agree.

DW2 has been my first real experience of using a PG (vs open which I normally fly in).

I have to say I'm much preferring the greater realism in the PG that comes with 99% of encounters with other people being non violent.

It gives a much greater sense of a fleet being on a tramp across the galaxy.

 

[zeke312]

Bounty payouts for destroying human pirates should be increased to at least 30 mil a pop. So that PvP becomes a viable activity rather than a waste of time.

So who is a human pirate? At any given time I have multiple millions of bounties on my head a a result of legit power play activities against both humans and NPCs. I have never stolen anything from another player( not that there is anything wrong with doing so) and have never killed another player who did not shoot me first, or was pledged to a rival faction... am I a pirate ?

 

[Jukelo]

Are you actually saying that FDEV is not conscious of the fact that PVE players enjoy positive collaborative social interaction?

Are you saying that FDEV is unaware that a PVP kill results in a rebuy/data loss / cargo loss / mission loss / bounty loss etc.?

Frontier are aware that players enjoy social play, and they are aware that ship loss results in various (minor) setbacks, since they put that in themselves. But dying, whatever the cause, will result in all of that, this isn't PvP specific. So again, and since you haven't answered that question, I must ask: why would Frontier be relying specifically on PvPer to do their bidding and killing all the helpless explorers to slow down their progress, when they could be doing that themselves. They have full control of the game's progression system.

And Frontier have also said time and again that they are neutral on the topic of PvP. For matters of verisimilitude and to allow for emergent gameplay they allow players to attack one another, but they also don't specifically condone it. It's there but it's not the focus of the game, it's not needed and it's ridiculously easy to avoid, so really it's the worst tool at their disposal to try and stomp explorers specifically, when they have just released an update aimed at them. And that update increased the exploration payouts tenfold or more.


I kinda feel this is some poor attempt at manufacturing hysteria amongst DW2 participants to bait Frontier into over-reacting.

 

[Chaparral]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

You say that as if playing the game is somehow a bad thing.

I mean... it has become sort of boring killing the same people who refuse to learn over and over again, but what's a CMDR to do?

I understand that you don't understand what I'm getting at.

I have made no argument against PVP in Open.

PVP and killing commanders is fine.

My argument is about the consequences for player death, and how it is designed to extract more play time.

My argument is about FDEV leveraging the desire for non-pvp social interaction to encourage players into open where they will be killed via PVP.

The consequence is the PVE dedicated player has to play more to recover the related losses.

You're fine Zaphod. You are helping FDEV extract more playtime from dedicated PVE players. That's good for FDEV. Have fun

 

[Zaphod Hawke]

I understand that you don't understand what I'm getting at.

I have made no argument against PVP in Open.

PVP and killing commanders is fine.

My argument is about the consequences for player death, and how it is designed to extract more play time.

My argument is about FDEV leveraging the desire for non-pvp social interaction to encourage players into open where they will be killed via PVP.

The consequence is the PVE dedicated player has to play more to recover the related losses.

You're fine Zaphod. You are helping FDEV extract more playtime from dedicated PVE players. That's good for FDEV. Have fun

That's where you're wrong, Danny boy.

Elite Dangerous is a shadow of what it once was, but brutality has always been a part of the game.

Player death has always been there.

Skill alone should stand between you and your demise, but that's just too much for some people.

You want it to be easier for you.

The game already has you covered, but you consistently choose to ignore the intelligent options.

When Robert Maynard suggests you git gud or go solo, the problem might just be on your end. [yesnod]

 

[Chaparral]

Frontier are aware that players enjoy social play, and they are aware that ship loss results in various (minor) setbacks, since they put that in themselves. But dying, whatever the cause, will result in all of that, this isn't PvP specific. So again, and since you haven't answered that question, I must ask: why would Frontier be relying specifically on PvPer to do their bidding and killing all the helpless explorers to slow down their progress, when they could be doing that themselves. They have full control of the game's progression system.

And Frontier have also said time and again that they are neutral on the topic of PvP. For matters of similitude and to allow for emergent gameplay they allow players to attack one another, but they also don't specifically condone it. It's there but it's not the focus of the game, it's not needed and it's ridiculously easy to avoid, so really it's the worst tool at their disposal to try and stomp explorers specifically, when they have just released an update aimed at them. And that update increased the exploration rewards tenfold or more.


As it stands, I kinda feel this is some poor attempt at manufacturing hysteria amongst DW2 participants to bait Frontier into over-reacting.

You identify loss as "minor".

For a new player, a 20-40 hour player, an explorer after hundreds of hours, these losses are not minor. They represent time, effort, energy invested in a leisure activity.

The threat of dying in this game is VASTLY greater from a pvp interaction than all pve interactions.

FDEV is using the desire for social interaction to expose players to greater progression reset risk. That is the current game design.

In my opinion, that's kind of Facebook/Twitter creepy.

 

[Powderpanic]

When Robert Maynard suggests you git gud or go solo, the problem might just be on your end. [yesnod]

Can I get this framed?

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[Brrokk]

When an explorer dies, they should drop a scannable data cache that their attacker can turn in for credits and first discoveries.

So in an encounter where the explorer risks his rebuy and data and the attacker risks nothing, you think the attacker should have the chance of a reward as well?

 

[Robert Maynard]

When an explorer dies, they should drop a scannable data cache that their attacker can turn in for credits and first discoveries.

I doubt that that would be implemented - just as players don't drop either cargo or materials on destruction - and for the same reasons.

 

[AlexAndTheDJ]

Whatever happened to submitting to interdiction, boosting and high waking? Always seemed to work for me when I didn't want any combat?

Or being aware of your surroundings. Let's face it, if you see a FDL in your system on a DWE its a pretty safe bet those aren't party poppers in his multicannons! So get outta dodge before he can interdict you.

A useful smuggling tip used to be to put your rear end towards the centre of the star when you're scooping, and you couldn't get interdicted. Dunno if that's changed now though...