Just don't feel like logging in...

[DextersIndignation]

This is a problem we discussed frequently in alpha and beta, without other content the goal was essentially a ship progression game. My friends and I had all hoped that the factional war, background sim, dynamic missions and persistent npc's would provide the content but these aren't up to scratch yet. In the case of the persistent NPC's I'm not sure if we'll ever see them I really think they would have been great for breathing life into the world and helping the player to weave a narrative.
I'm certain that things will improve over time, the problem is keeping people entertained while the devs write and improve the game. The 1.1 patch isn't going to solve the content issue, though community goals isn't exactly a bad idea, I don't think it'll foster a connection with the game world. Hopefully 1.2 with wings and more missions will help a bit too but the game world needs depth so we can make our own stories.

I guess you're not aware but FD were planning on not differentiating pilots from NPCs on the scanner until you actively scanned a ship, so really they weren't interested in the muliplayer element you're talking about (as they wanted to hide other players from view in the first instance).

Thankfully they didn't actually go through with it - go check the DDF Archives if you don't believe me.

So the above is really nonsense. ED goes further than any other multi-player online game which I've ever been aware of to make the experience as single player as possible. The comms system is atrocious (which should be addressed in the future hopefully granted), grouping just DOES NOT WORK. Wings should have been in at launch. Until 1.05, it was quite frankly an amazing event if I saw more than one player in a (supposedly) crowded system, so it is getting better, but it's nowhere near what most people would expect from some sort of multi-player online experience.

I have to add something here!

Slopey and Thrudd have both added amazing apps for this game!
They have really worked at it and I would like to thank them both!

They worked on something that should have been in the game before beta was even launched!
They are the kind of core player that Elite needs!
These guys are real hero's along with the guy who did the ED shipyard and others.
Elite could have asked these guys for ideas or offered them some outsourced work!

But I am willing to bet that they will get very little for their hard work!

PS
slopey I know of posts being deleted by mods for just mentioning about the chat function not working! I also expect sock puppets to now spam posts claiming it always works!

 

[Commander Azriel]

\

But at the same time, I'm gonna tell you this: MANY OF YOU KILLED THIS GAME WHEN REQUESTING OR OPTING FOR SOLO MODE.

That is, in my eyes, the single worst decision of it all. I call to your common sense here: There is no way, in heaven, space or black holes, that FD could have fleshed out a +400 billion star galaxy without HUMANS!!

Interesting, as I see it as the exact opposite. In my eyes, the single worst decision was to make it multiplayer! There were never going to be enough human players to fill this universe, but having other players requires concessions and compromises that ruin the game for me. I don't want MY mission canceled out by yours. I don't want to require your help to support the faction of MY choice.

The reason it takes 25 days for a status to cool down is to allow other players to undo everything you have done. The reason it take weeks to influence some backwater, nobody minor faction is because of multiplayer.

 

[Fearless Sister]

I must admit I'm not sure about ED at the moment.

This isn't a "bye, I'm outta here, toys-thrown-outta-pram-door-slammed" good bye. I'm just bemused about the game, and don't much feel like playing it right now.

To set a scene: Beta backer. Played a bit, not too much, wanted to see where it would go. Played a little Gamma, thought there would be a wipe, didn't have much time to play once I'd realised there wasn't, so started on the 16th with approx the same as everyone else. Now sitting on about 200M/cr, courtesy of a t9 and a hefty time spent trading.

I've done some mining, bounty hunting, smuggling and trading. I've not played 12 hour days. I've mostly played 1-2 hours a day, on the days I have played. I haven't exactly spent every waking moment in the game. I say this to illustrate that I'm not "burned out".

I just....don't see the point right now.

Trading is a grind, and I've done quite a lot of it, and no longer enjoy it.

Fair enough, do something else.

But what?

Here is some feedback. Two points:

1) The first MAJOR issue that I have with ED is that there's no point to any of it, no goals beyond what you set yourself. And that's like looking down at your kitchen floor and deciding you will spend the next hour deliberately stepping on every corner of every tile, as a self-imposed objective, and calling it fun. It's a kitchen sandbox where you can play the way you want to play. Which is fun. Right.

So I set myself an objective to hit 200Mcr. Done that. It allows me to buy pretty much any ship in the game (excluding the 'Conda, really) and play it. But play it to do what?

I don't want to BH. It's pew pew without a purpose.
I don't feel an urge to explore. There's 400 billion uncharted stars out there, and when I've finished exploring them for hours, scanning the same old stuff again and again, there'll still be 400 billion uncharted stars out there (plus or minus a few).
I don't feel an urge to mine. No, that's not true. I've done some mining. I feel an urge to go and clean my kitchen before I do any more mining. Ever.
I don't want to be a jerk and turn pirate.
I've been-there-done-that on trading.
I deliberately haven't pursued naval mission ranks because there is no content there. I thought I would wait to see what story missions and rank content will (eventually, ultimately, many, many updates from now) be introduced, and enjoy playing them when they are. There is no value to be had in the ranks (as I see it) at this point, so no point playing the missions. I don't need a Clipper. I might get one anyway, but go no further. Perhaps. If I can be bothered.

I want some MISSIONS (that have a point and aren't repetitive drivel). I want a STORY (at least a skeleton of one). I want a PURPOSE.

And ED doesn't really have any of that.

And poorly implemented "community missions" or landing on planets won't give it any, either.

2) The second MAJOR issue that I have with ED is that it actually all feels a bit false. A bit of a lie. A bit of under-delivered promises and smoke-and-mirrors to cover holes.

Players do NOT have influence (e.g. Lugh) - FDev had to add that in after the event when there was an outcry that nothing had happened.
Players' rep activities do NOT influence environments. Much testing has been done.
Players' trading activities do NOT influence the market.
NPCs play to different rules (e.g. FSD under mass lock)
NPCs turn up in stations where there were none before...
NPCs turn up in random cruise-dropouts in mining belts where there were none before...

....it's all a bit cheaty. A bit botched. A bit....crap, really.

Basically, the ED world exists irrespective of whatever we, the players, do within it. So what's the point of doing anything?


In before
#it'snotthegameforyou
#I'mstillplayingandIthinkit'sgreatandeveryonewhodoesn'tthinksodoesn'tgethegame
#it'sstillinbeta


TL;DR

Like many others, I'd love ED to be successful. But, to be successful, it has to be a whole lot more than it currently is.

More content.
More soul.
More polish.
More interaction.

Right now, it falls a very, very long way short of that.

Right now, it simply isn't fun to play.

A.


P.s. Awesome sounds though. Best sounds in-game evaaa.

Think id have to agree with everything you just said.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

I have to add something here!

Slopey and Thrudd have both added amazing apps for this game!
They have really worked at it and I would like to thank them both!

They worked on something that should have been in the game before beta was even launched!
They are the kind of core player that Elite needs!
These guys are real hero's along with the guy who did the ED shipyard and others.
Elite could have asked these guys for ideas or offered them some outsourced work!

But I am willing to bet that they will get very little for their hard work!

PS
slopey I know of posts being deleted by mods for just mentioning about the chat function not working! I also expect sock puppets to now spam posts claiming it always works!

Interesting, as I see it as the exact opposite. In my eyes, the single worst decision was to make it multiplayer! There were never going to be enough human players to fill this universe, but having other players requires concessions and compromises that ruin the game for me. I don't want MY mission canceled out by yours. I don't want to require your help to support the faction of MY choice.

The reason it takes 25 days for a status to cool down is to allow other players to undo everything you have done. The reason it take weeks to influence some backwater, nobody minor faction is because of multiplayer.

Agree on both points. I have played so many MMOs and the best parts are not PVP. Its cooperative gameplay in PVE. Always the most fun I've had in games.

 

[SlackR]

I don't think we'd be having this discussion if the game hadn't been "released"... Irrespective of whether or not their hands were tied, Frontier may well look back on that decision as the one that killed the game. The modern gamer was never going to be satisfied with blazing his or her own trail... The demands have changed.

I just hope content comes sooner rather later, because I love this game and don't even play anything else.
I also get that I'm a minority.


Edit : OP ... Get a rift. The pointless of the game becomes irrelevant.

 

[huwthomas]

I never heard or knew about Elite Dangerous until the day it was released in Dec.16th. I may add I like SciFi and games, but I am not the pew pew gamer. The game has to be intellectually challenging for me, and more often than not, it needs to allow me to be creative. With that being said, I have played some games that others in here would consider boring, boring, boring -just yesterday I was mentioning in another threat about FSX and how I love spending 10 hrs of clouds, clouds, clouds!~

Anyways guys, when I came here I found out all this community, and that wonderful game. I found out that its been going for months, at least the beta, gamma and etc.

As a total newbie, I want to tell you: THIS GAME IS @%&!@ INCREDIBLE. It has done great things and its been crafted magnificently. But at the same time, I'm gonna tell you this: MANY OF YOU KILLED THIS GAME WHEN REQUESTING OR OPTING FOR SOLO MODE.

That is, in my eyes, the single worst decision of it all. I call to your common sense here: There is no way, in heaven, space or black holes, that FD could have fleshed out a +400 billion star galaxy without HUMANS!! The game needs HUMANS to bring it to life!!

Denying Solo mode wouldn't force us solo players into Open, there are other games available (to play and to back on Kickstarter) you know

 

[Daffan]

I agree with the OP. I just haven't felt the urge to play since I spent the whole of last Saturday grinding credits to get a type 7. I adopted some tunnel vision and stubbornly achieved my "goal" but after I'd done it I looked back over how I'd decided to spend my Saturday and decided "that was a bit of a waste of time really wasn't it?"

Haven't played since. 1.1 doesn't seem to be offering up much. I remember Braben in some of the promo videos bigging up CORE aspects of gameplay that weren't in release (wings). I have friends that ask me "how's ED?" basically because I was so enthusiastic about in during early beta, and my response now is "the ED universe is great but there's not much to do in it yet."

Which pretty much sums it up as far as I'm concerned.

I think everyone adopted tunnel vision when there was those big payouts.

 

[callezetter]

Yeah have to agree with OP too. Its just sad that it had to got that way tho.

You can think what you want about mmos and levels, experience point, talent points or any progression based skill system.
But atleast that gave us something to strive for, to feel you acomplish something.

I know they never intended ED to be that, but please..the feeling of personal accomplishment is so important for a game to be worth it in the end.

And now its just..poof..empty..nothing. Whats the point to explore another system or trade another 10M credits, or killing 10 more ships
when it have no meaning at all in the long run? And wont make a dent in the experience for anyone else either? Again its just sad.

Is this what Elite have always been about? And if your not feeling it you lack imagination, or cant handle a non spoonfed experience?

Ive played games for 40 years, and love a good challenge with deep and hard to master systems. But for me ED turned out to be just smoke.

Extremely pretty and good sounding smoke. But still fading fast.

 

[SvennoJ]

It has been great fun, but I now feel I started this game too early.
.
Initially it was all a bit disappointing tbh, it didn't give me that same feeling I had when starting FFE 20 years ago. I still miss not having time compression or a true offline mode with multiple saves, but I've found a lot of fun despite those misgivings. I roamed around for a while, started trading, did a trial exploration run in a Hauler 1000ly straight up, then optimized my trade route to get an Asp Explorer to start long range exploring. I've been exploring for the last 3 weeks, visited many Nebulae, and it was great. Same with imagining what life would be like on a tidally locked planet or 2 small earth likes orbiting each other only 40k km apart. I got plenty great screenshots too, yet the feeling that I have already seen all that the stellar forge has to offer is getting bigger by the day. My plan was to head back, do some minor alterations, then head for the galactic core. Yet to what end, the same repetition of procedural systems, except with more stars in the background. Exploring feels more and more like trying to chase that initial high.
.
What else is there. I'm not interested in pvp and what kept me going in FFE is not there (yet).
Time for a break perhaps, but I know myself. After I quit a game for a while, it will never be the same trying to get back into it. It's a shame, I had hoped to last until planetary landings and level 2,3 scans. They now seem way too far off.
.
I can't really complain much, ED kept me entertained for well over a month after all. I learned some new stuff about the galaxy in all the 'super cruise and waiting for the planner' downtime, and I read plenty great stuff on these forums, thanks Nutter, Erimas, DCello, Brakespear and many others. Perhaps again in another 20 years. Next time I'll wait for the finished product.
.
I'll keep checking these boards, probably give 1.1 a go to turn in my 1200 systems exploration data. Maybe I'll get the spark back. For now I'll leave my ship at SADR. I didn't quite make it back home, still 1800ly to go. A short hop when I set my mind to it, yet it doesn't feel like there's anything to come home to. It's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.

 

[gripped]

Lot of good points in the thread.

I do hope the game adds content to keep other players motivated.
I've been playing since premium beta but not loads. I take breaks, play other games.

I backed at kickstarter because I wanted to relive the days when, at 14 years old, I played Elite on my Acorn Electron. The Electron version had no suns (so no fuel scoops), less ships, no missions and yet I played and played until I became Elite. I tried the two Frontier's but never really got into them.
That's my personal goal here again, To become Elite. As soon as I first tried Premium Beta the old feeling was back, but I think better. It will probably take me a few years at my current rate and hopefully the game will grow around me as I do.

But for me it's a great game and I'm personally glad its so similar in concept and feel to the original. Multiplayer I can take it or leave it. It doesn't bother me it's so basic in fact I think I probably prefer it. Same with the planned walking around. I'll get out of my cockpit chair when I'm delivered a mobility scooter

I don't only pew pew but it still is the main attraction for me. Same buzz watching a Python go BOOM as when I was 14. Harder NPC's would be nice though

Anyway sorry for rambling.

TLDR
I like it

 

[TaoZero5]

I've played this game a lot since Beta. I cleared my save as a Christmas present. I have a well upgraded Adder (and a Sidey in a hanger somewhere) and nearly half a million credits. No grind, no boredom.

------------------------

I'm a pilot and I explore and I get a bit twitchy around other pilots but I'll still sometimes holler "Ahoy" in passing. I do some trading and will sometimes take missions, if I'm going in that direction. Even did some mining, for a while, but got crazy from singing "Clemantine" too many times.

------------------------------

I think Frontier made Elite just like it used to be (with added graphics) and that brought in a player base that would not have been there otherwise - added to the player base of 'new kids' and that makes it economically more viable in the long term.
That long term will include comms and team-work that are easier to use, landings on planets, first-person walking around and interacting - and from all that will come co-operative, emergent story building.
It's Gonna Be Bigger!

 

[Nauht]

That long term will include comms and team-work that are easier to use, landings on planets, first-person walking around and interacting - and from all that will come co-operative, emergent story building.
It's Gonna Be Bigger!

Been hearing this same old tagline since alpha... then beta... then you guys said wait for gamma... no, wait for release. Yes that's when we'll have an awesome game.

Others like me have been decrying the shallowness of the game since PB but were always shouted down by the white knights. I, and others, tolerated the rep downvotes, snide comments and just plain forum bashing by overzealous fanbois in the faint hope that they were right - that FD could deliver upon release.

Oh how silent they've become or are still making the same old excuses for FD since they were in beta.

But it's not a victory that I particularly enjoy as I genuinely want the game to succeed. The only thing that's kept me playing is the Rift experience.

Once the shininess wears off you're still left with a shallow, empty game.

Pity.

 

[funkcanna]

For me its like this:

I first played FE2 and it blew me away at the time. I was new to gaming and FE2 was just what I wanted. 20 ish years later we have the game I've dreamed about all this time. I spent 3000 pound on a new rig JUST for Elite Dangerous, plus Oculus Rift DK2, flight controllers etc. The whole shebang. Was a Premium Beta backer and have played since then, albeit intermittently sometimes.

Back when I was playing FE2 I remember the FEELING it gave me. Its hard to explain but I think most of you who played FE2 as a kid understand. I used to sit on the couch with my family but my head was in Elite. I used to sit with the star chart and fiction book that came with the game even if I didn't touch them, I just wanted them to be close to me so I could hold onto the feeling of the game. Sounds weird I know but anyway...

Now, I still sometimes get that FEELING of Elite and I get excited (at 33 years old, feeling like a kid again is welcomed!). When I can't play I read the forums, I've read every single Elite Dangerous Fan Fiction book released, I watch Youtube Vids about Elite. All of which give me the "Elite Feeling". Then I get some time and I decide to play. "ill explore, ill work towards the T7, ill do some bounty hunting" I think. Then I get into the game, and you would think that the game will drive me to climax given the prior excitement I had. But no. The bubble bursts after an hour or so of playing. I get overcome by how EMPTY it FEELS. FE2 never felt empty to me, and there were zero other human players. So while people list the features that are missing etc (most of which I agree with), the one thing that I am judging this game on is the feeling it gives me. No game since FE2 has EVER come close to making me feel like I did playing FE2. I really hoped (and still hope, for the future) that ED would bring that feeling back but better, but somehow it doesn't. Its too empty. The missions are possibly less comprehensive and more repetitive than FE2. If I see one more NPC bouncing around inside a station getting zapped by the fixed guns ill scream - NPCs are HORRIBLE in ED, they only serve to detract from the experience rather than add to it.

I could list the features that I think are missing but its all been said before. FDEV MUST get back the feeling of Elites rich universe because I'm not sure how many more trade runs I can take.

 

[lefty1117]

I don't want to sound overly harsh because the truth is I've had fun with the game since beta. But I'll tell you what really knocked my enthusiasm down a peg: when I realized that the factions in each system were essentially randomly generated, with no connection to factions in other systems unless they "expand" from one to another. Jet Blue Comms in one system has absolutely nothing to do with Jet Blue Trading Co. in another. No relation whatsoever - any rep I gain with one has no impact on my standing with the other. That really does make me wonder "what's the point of it all, it's just a randomly generated spreadsheet that I'm playing in". It just feels ... well ... it feels a bit thrown together. Shallow is the word, I guess.

 

[DextersIndignation]

For me its like this:

I first played FE2 and it blew me away at the time. I was new to gaming and FE2 was just what I wanted. 20 ish years later we have the game I've dreamed about all this time. I spent 3000 pound on a new rig JUST for Elite Dangerous, plus Oculus Rift DK2, flight controllers etc. The whole shebang. Was a Premium Beta backer and have played since then, albeit intermittently sometimes.

Back when I was playing FE2 I remember the FEELING it gave me. Its hard to explain but I think most of you who played FE2 as a kid understand. I used to sit on the couch with my family but my head was in Elite. I used to sit with the star chart and fiction book that came with the game even if I didn't touch them, I just wanted them to be close to me so I could hold onto the feeling of the game. Sounds weird I know but anyway...

Now, I still sometimes get that FEELING of Elite and I get excited (at 33 years old, feeling like a kid again is welcomed!). When I can't play I read the forums, I've read every single Elite Dangerous Fan Fiction book released, I watch Youtube Vids about Elite. All of which give me the "Elite Feeling". Then I get some time and I decide to play. "ill explore, ill work towards the T7, ill do some bounty hunting" I think. Then I get into the game, and you would think that the game will drive me to climax given the prior excitement I had. But no. The bubble bursts after an hour or so of playing. I get overcome by how EMPTY it FEELS. FE2 never felt empty to me, and there were zero other human players. So while people list the features that are missing etc (most of which I agree with), the one thing that I am judging this game on is the feeling it gives me. No game since FE2 has EVER come close to making me feel like I did playing FE2. I really hoped (and still hope, for the future) that ED would bring that feeling back but better, but somehow it doesn't. Its too empty. The missions are possibly less comprehensive and more repetitive than FE2. If I see one more NPC bouncing around inside a station getting zapped by the fixed guns ill scream - NPCs are HORRIBLE in ED, they only serve to detract from the experience rather than add to it.

I could list the features that I think are missing but its all been said before. FDEV MUST get back the feeling of Elites rich universe because I'm not sure how many more trade runs I can take.

It is impossible to match those dreams...
FD not only has for fill your's but all of ours.
Did you know that joysticks sold out at Christmas in every store! Just for this game!

Maybe if FD could share the vision they have, without the lies and ...
Maybe they could at least admit where they went wrong?
Maybe they could win back the lost?

 

[m4th3m4t1c14n]

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with most of the comments here. I started on the 16th, but I have tried every occupation and have hundreds of millions of credits, an Anaconda, and enough rank in the Empire and Federation that more is pointless. For about two weeks I've been trying to understand why I have been logging in but not bothering to undock.
-
I think I finally have realized why. Remember the game Star Control 2? When I first played it, like in the mid-90's, it took me a few weeks to beat. Well, about a year ago I downloaded the free version and beat it in one day.
-
I feel the same thing has happened here. I remember FE2. That game took forever for me to make any progress whatsoever. Well now I've basically downloaded another copy. I have evolved as a gamer, but the game hasn't evolved in the last 20 years. Sure, it looks and sounds amazing, but it is otherwise basically the same game. I have essentially beaten it in a month. I know the game has no end, but I have reached the point where further progress is more effort than it is worth, and the things that were fun have become tedious.
-
I'm the last remaining of my little group of friends that I convinced to start this with me. They've all moved on to something else and are attempting to drag me along. I'm glad all of you that loved the 1984 version are getting a chance to relive your game with an updated experience. I just can't bring myself to play a 1984 game, no matter how good it looks. This is the most beautiful, free, empty, and repetitive game that I've ever had the heart-wrenching experience of purposefully walking away from.

 

[Distance]

The biggest killer for me is being able to faction up with everyone. You shouldn't be able to be ranked in empire and federation at the same time it feels about as wrong as been a USA general and a North Korean general at the same time.

The main thing that spoiled me was reading the dda and every patch since beta waiting for them to add in x y and z from the dda. They should really have delayed the release longer to get more basic stuff in.

It's a great shell of the game and i'm still in it for the long haul but it really does seem like it's going to be a long time before I get the game I was expecting.

 

[funkcanna]

It is impossible to match those dreams...
FD not only has for fill your's but all of ours.
Did you know that joysticks sold out at Christmas in every store! Just for this game!

Maybe if FD could share the vision they have, without the lies and ...
Maybe they could at least admit where they went wrong?
Maybe they could win back the lost?

Honestly, all I think it needs is just to be deeper. Its 2015 and the game feels so sparse in content compared to other games.

 

[CaptainSeriousFun]

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with most of the comments here. I started on the 16th, but I have tried every occupation and have hundreds of millions of credits, an Anaconda, and enough rank in the Empire and Federation that more is pointless. For about two weeks I've been trying to understand why I have been logging in but not bothering to undock.
-
I think I finally have realized why. Remember the game Star Control 2? When I first played it, like in the mid-90's, it took me a few weeks to beat. Well, about a year ago I downloaded the free version and beat it in one day.
-
I feel the same thing has happened here. I remember FE2. That game took forever for me to make any progress whatsoever. Well now I've basically downloaded another copy. I have evolved as a gamer, but the game hasn't evolved in the last 20 years. Sure, it looks and sounds amazing, but it is otherwise basically the same game. I have essentially beaten it in a month. I know the game has no end, but I have reached the point where further progress is more effort than it is worth, and the things that were fun have become tedious.
-
I'm the last remaining of my little group of friends that I convinced to start this with me. They've all moved on to something else and are attempting to drag me along. I'm glad all of you that loved the 1984 version are getting a chance to relive your game with an updated experience. I just can't bring myself to play a 1984 game, no matter how good it looks. This is the most beautiful, free, empty, and repetitive game that I've ever had the heart-wrenching experience of purposefully walking away from.

Sorry for you I really am...it sounds like your gameplay has devolved, not evolved...you got on, crushed all the systems in the game to amass undeniable wealth and ships, while missing the forest for the trees. The game isn't about that, in my view. But there's been enough talking past one another on this point to realize that there are simply clear difference in what gamers want. I want an experience I can inhabit and be in awe of, not a game to finish or win. There are lots of people like you, and lots like me. We won't agree, I don't think, but that's why lots of different games are made. Good luck in finding (or supporting/launching/backing) the game you seek. I've found mine!

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The biggest killer for me is being able to faction up with everyone. You shouldn't be able to be ranked in empire and federation at the same time it feels about as wrong as been a USA general and a North Korean general at the same time....

That is weird to me as well...there should be a cost (or, interestingly, a "double-agent" bounty, or the like) that emerges from that type of choice...hopefully they get around to it.

 

[Biscuit]

I agree with pretty much what the OP said.

I would play something else but there's nothing that really grabs me right now.

I do think it is a bit empty. Maybe that is the point. What I enjoy is feeling like I'm in space. So maybe it's more of a sim than a game. That said most of us want to enjoy our experience.

Flight sims usually have a reasonable depth of realism eg controls and handling. Elite doesn't to be more "fun"

Maybe it doesn't really know if it's a game or a sim? I think I agree with the comments about the OR. I'd then just be happy with floating around in space probably.

My goal was to become a baron and fly s clipper. It's ace but I'm unsure what to do now.

A friend and I are role playing an imperial mercenary / insurgent group which adds some meaning other than grind.

I really think players need to have more influence in the universe if FDS idea of a sandbox is to work

It's not there yet, but I don't have much else to do. Exercise maybe?

Sorry for the rambling poorly connected stream of crap

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Honestly, all I think it needs is just to be deeper. Its 2015 and the game feels so sparse in content compared to other games.

What this guy said too.