Just had a 'Dust Up' with another Cmdr

I would rather Frontier stop making content and focus on crime and punishment for those who just want to be psychotic, and punishments for those who log..

this again. when you guys talk about crime and punishment, are you referring to fictional infractions and consequences (say, proper bounty system, hostile stations toward wanteds, etc) or do you mean banning people from the game or specific areas?

bc indeed fictional c&p needs much love, but using it to counter exploits? can't wrap my head around the idea of using in-game mechanics to counter external offences. not only would it hardly ever work, it doesn't even make much sense to me and sounds like a terrible idea. if there's a radical genius twist to it i'm not seeing it.

there's a fundamental difference between a 'crime' in a virtual context, and deliberate exploitation of technical flaws. fix both, don't mash them together in an even bigger mess.
 
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this again. when you guys talk about crime and punishment, are you referring to fictional infractions and consequences (say, proper bounty system, hostile stations toward wanteds, etc) or do you mean banning people from the game or specific areas?

bc indeed fictional c&p needs much love, but using it to counter exploits? can't wrap my head around the idea of using in-game mechanics to counter external offences. not only would it hardly ever work, it doesn't even make much sense to me and sounds like a terrible idea. if there's a radical genius twist to it i'm not seeing it.

there's a fundamental difference between a 'crime' in a virtual context, and deliberate exploitation of technical flaws. fix both, don't mash them together in an even bigger mess.

You don't need to ban anyone, just give combat loggers a worst outcome for logging than had they not done it e.g. a higher rebuy cost on the grounds of insurance fraud and have murderous players treated as outlaws (which transcends ship destruction) by the game with no easy way out other than to rebuild their reputation slowly.
 
Probably in most of these cases the issue is the attacker is like 12 years old irl.
What is far worse imo is they could be much older than 12. We like to think immaturity rests with the young but that's not always the case. Just imagine if the attacker was not 12 but instead 32.
 
Considering how easy it is to get an infraction for swearing on this forum or trying to avoid the swear filter, it does utterly amaze me that the same rules are not employed in the game.
 
Going back into Shinrarta in my passenger/Cargo/Mission Python, when i get interdicted by a Cmdr driven Vette.

No i have some Weapons on here, but just for pesky NPC's, I have a Pris Shield and a few Booster.....So not fancying a fight at all i submit and Boost. He opens fire immediately but I see I have a speed advantage so i don't high wake as i need to return my passengers to Shin.

I get beyond 4 kicks and send him a txt, nothing inflammatory, just Bye Bye, his next volly to me is a tirade of verbal abuse cause i won't fight him, really, the Mods would have had a field day with this one. He dissapears and i stay in space to let the shields come back up, and jump back to my journey to Shin, yes he's there and does me again, same thing happens, i boost get 4k away and this time his txt to me is asking why i won't fight him, so i explain my ship loadout, my role play currently, but he then opens up the verbal abuse again calling me a Griefer for not fighting him.

This goes on for 2 more goes, and i am determined not to go to solo and to get to Shin in open, so i persevere and make it after 5 interdiction's.

I am not complaining, not moaning, and certainly won't want to name and shame even if i could, but i just can't understand the mentality of some players...Oh well! off again in my Python to do some more missions, wonder if I will meet him/her again?

Just wanted to share my evening so far in Game!

And here we have so many classic examples of what's current wrong/lacking with PvP in ED.

Because there are no mechanics in the game to orchestrate (consensual) PvP we simply have CMDRs flying around interdicting any/all CMDRs they can hoping for a fight. What other method can they use? But this then means:-
1) The "victim" is almost certainly doing something game orientated and not currently interested in a PvP fight.
2) The "victim" is almost certainly outfitted for PvE and not PvP. If the game were balanced there would be no such things as PvP and PvE loadouts, but there are!
3) The "victim" is possibly not running a fully engineered loadout, unlike the player who's ship is probably geared towards PvP so quite likely fully engineered to dish out as much damage as quickly as possible.


Is it suprising we have so many issues when the game offers little/no means for players willing to PVP to actually find each other and do so? And instead CMDR simply end up interdicting unwilling "victim" after unwilling "victim"? Is it surprising both parties get frustrated?

Why is it after two years we still do no have an interesting variety of mechanics to allow CMDRs to undertake (consensual) PvP? Powerplay would be an obvious place for this via a specific set (a small number) of tasks which in open would pit CMDRs against CMDRs (legally). These should offer a variety of backdrops from convoy attack/defense, to platform attack/defense, to maybe even rare station blockades (where you need to travel a long distance in standard flight) and CMDRs (& NPCs) are trying to enforce or run the blockade.
 
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What is far worse imo is they could be much older than 12. We like to think immaturity rests with the young but that's not always the case. Just imagine if the attacker was not 12 but instead 32.

More likely than you would think. Anonymity makes people do odd things.
 
You don't need to ban anyone, just give combat loggers a worst outcome for logging than had they not done it e.g. a higher rebuy cost on the grounds of insurance fraud and have murderous players treated as outlaws (which transcends ship destruction) by the game with no easy way out other than to rebuild their reputation slowly.

it cant all be on the combat loggers.... there has to be something done about risk free blowing up of missmatched ships with no possible downsides.

look at it this way. would people still play COD if it was always 1 side with fully automatic weapons, body armour and full radar and the other side had handgun, had to fight in their pants and with no perks or equipment..... AND the same players ALWAYS got to be the strong team.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
You don't need to ban anyone, just give combat loggers a worst outcome for logging than had they not done it e.g. a higher rebuy cost on the grounds of insurance fraud and have murderous players treated as outlaws (which transcends ship destruction) by the game with no easy way out other than to rebuild their reputation slowly.

To do so Frontier would require a method of detecting combat logging that produced an acceptably low level (i.e. very, very few) of false positives.

Until the game stops crashing, losing connection to matchmaking servers, etc., Frontier are not, in my opinion, able to do that.

Also, what if a memory leak in the game causes a BSOD? (as I suspect has happened to me on more than one occasion as it's the only time it happens on my PC)
 
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Thank you all for the positive replies to my thread.

Just before it goes wayward as these threads sometimes do, i want to explain that i posted this to share the abuse i got for Simply NOT fighting, not the actual interdiction followed by 4 more by the same Cmdr. I actually enjoy this pitting my escape technichics against the Cmdrs highly engineered big battlewagon, in fact earlier in the day i was nabbed by a Cmdr in a Cutter and my Python had no speed advantage and i got the insurance screen despite pitting my best escape techniques including Silent running, my high waking attempt came too late, i enjoy these Fights........on my side, i use other things to combat the interdiction, just not a slug fest with weapons!

Should i have reported this Cmdr for his mod salivating lip smacking verbal tirade ? yes probably i should of, but why add to Fdev's workload, beside the reporting side of fdev has taken a massive hit in my eyes and i don't believe i would have got anywhere!
 
You don't need to ban anyone, just give combat loggers a worst outcome for logging than had they not done it e.g. a higher rebuy cost on the grounds of insurance fraud and have murderous players treated as outlaws (which transcends ship destruction) by the game with no easy way out other than to rebuild their reputation slowly.

I have a better idea. Introduce a Combat Log flag. This can be clearly seen by all players. It means the user can log with no delay or consequence. If a PvPer attacks someone using this flag they have nothing to complain about when the obvious happens.
 
this again. when you guys talk about crime and punishment, are you referring to fictional infractions and consequences (say, proper bounty system, hostile stations toward wanteds, etc) or do you mean banning people from the game or specific areas?

bc indeed fictional c&p needs much love, but using it to counter exploits? can't wrap my head around the idea of using in-game mechanics to counter external offences. not only would it hardly ever work, it doesn't even make much sense to me and sounds like a terrible idea. if there's a radical genius twist to it i'm not seeing it.

there's a fundamental difference between a 'crime' in a virtual context, and deliberate exploitation of technical flaws. fix both, don't mash them together in an even bigger mess.


I think that most perceive it as referring to fictional infractions and consequences (say, proper bounty system, hostile stations toward wanteds, etc)

The point made - If you could issue a bounty on a "griefer" (I use the term loosly here) and lets say we had a rule set for bounties that they can be applied only outside of PP and only issued if the attack is unprovoked the system could work something like this .

"Attacked Party Can issue a galaxy wide bounty to a max of X amount based on the offence

Example - Pirating can resolve in a bounty of 50 000 credits, but murder can allow for up to 50% of the value of the vessel destroyed. Bounty Hunters receive between 10% - 30 % based on the job and size of the bounty to avoid credit mongering and also to make sure that Insurance companies and Pilot Federation recover their costs of handling the issue at hand.

Bounties are ship tied, so no ship swapping is possible to clear the bounty

Bounties are issued by the affected party and the party murdered or pirated has to pay towards the bounty based on where the Crime occured:
High Security - 0% of bounty fee for Murder and 5% for Pirating Bounty by the Murdered and 100% or 95% of the bounty is paid by the party that murdered or pirated on their death in the rebuy screen
Medium Security - 10% for Pirating Bounty and 20% for Murder Bounty and 90% or 80% of the bounty is paid by the party that murdered or pirated on their death in the rebuy screen
Low Security - 40% for Pirating Bounty and 70% for Murder Bounty and 60% or 30% of the bounty is paid by the party that murdered or pirated on their death in the rebuy screen
Anarchy - 100% bounty on both for the attacked and 0% by the bounty hunted on their death

Bounty works as follow - Commander who wish to be bounty hunters can accept a Bounty Mission - Blank Bounty mission with open end where they receive a memo with the bounty details when a bounty is issued - The criminal and his location gets reported based on system security spotting them in their system and memos of these sightings are reported to those who have taken the blank mission. If the bounty gets collected by the killing of the hunted party a memo is sent to the Bounty hunters letting them know of the event. Mission expires on successful Bounty collection or on death of the Bounty Hunter. In case the bounty hunter isn't the one who caught the hunted their mission stays active and they will receive a new memo if and when a new bounty is issued.

BOUNTIES CAN BE ISSUED ONLY ON TARGETS THAT ATTACK FIRST, not simply on any commanders - we already have a wanted log system which this could be built on.

These mechanics also mean that those who wish to issue bounties have to think about their cost and if it wasn't their piloting error by flying in dangerous space.

It also introduces emerging gameplay which is unpredictable. All bounties issued this way have no effect on BGS or PP (PP attacks are exempt and no bounties can be issued if part of PP campaign) The bounty system is issued by the Pilot Federation who simply had enough of the wasted lives and wanted the bounty hunters to get decent income for their hard work.


The above system would guarantee that even those flying in Vets and Cutters think twice about attacking in High Sec or medium Sec as even if you have billions, they go pretty fast when you have to pay 50 million per death + plus your bounty share :)

Example - A Vett pilot with insurance cost of 50Mill kills a T9 (100 mill geared vessel) in High sec system - The killed pilot issues a Warrant for the Vett Pilot at a max value of 50 Million. The Vett pilot gets killed and his total cost on death screen is 100 Million. The bounty hunter receives 10% of the Bounty Fee issued as the rest is to cover the costs of the insurance company and Pilot Federation.

So Killed Pilot had Cost of the Insurance page only as is now, Bounty Hunter made 10 million for killing the Vett and the Vett pilot on death paid 100 million on rebuy screen because he was naughty in a high sec system. This way even if you have billions you will soon run out of money to fly even an eagle if you are doing stuff which isn't for capital gains, but is simply for lols.
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I have a better idea. Introduce a Combat Log flag. This can be clearly seen by all players. It means the user can log with no delay or consequence. If a PvPer attacks someone using this flag they have nothing to complain about when the obvious happens.

Call it a PvE flag and you could be on to something....
 
Thank you all for the positive replies to my thread.

Just before it goes wayward as these threads sometimes do, i want to explain that i posted this to share the abuse i got for Simply NOT fighting, not the actual interdiction followed by 4 more by the same Cmdr. I actually enjoy this pitting my escape technichics against the Cmdrs highly engineered big battlewagon, in fact earlier in the day i was nabbed by a Cmdr in a Cutter and my Python had no speed advantage and i got the insurance screen despite pitting my best escape techniques including Silent running, my high waking attempt came too late, i enjoy these Fights........on my side, i use other things to combat the interdiction, just not a slug fest with weapons!

Should i have reported this Cmdr for his mod salivating lip smacking verbal tirade ? yes probably i should of, but why add to Fdev's workload, beside the reporting side of fdev has taken a massive hit in my eyes and i don't believe i would have got anywhere!

And the sad thing is, repeated interdictions seemingly solely just to try and destroy an unwilling CMDR, just so another CMDR can get their lolz.... And this is just the norm within ED?

Is this really the best we can hope for? Is this the depth of mechanics we'd envisaged in OPEN (after two years)?
 
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Thank you all for the positive replies to my thread.
Should i have reported this Cmdr for his mod salivating lip smacking verbal tirade ? yes probably i should of, but why add to Fdev's workload, beside the reporting side of fdev has taken a massive hit in my eyes and i don't believe i would have got anywhere!

Yes you should have, and yes you should.
Next time it not be an cunning wasp, but a younger player, who many not know all the meaning of the words. The commander that used inappropriate language that is against his license to play the game should be reported.

I put about on the level of combat logging :)

Simon
 
And the sad thing is, repeated interdictions seemingly solely just to try and destroy an unwilling CMDR, just so another CMDR can get their lolz.... And this is just the norm within ED?

Is this really the best we can hope for? Is this the depth of mechanics we'd envisaged in OPEN (after two years)?

Neil, for me i enjoyed that bit. I pitted my skill against his/hers, i won on that occasion, but lost earlier in the day....For me this is my fun, i suck at slug-festing with big bad weapons, but i love the interdictions and my skill, if you want to call it that, is getting out of the situation alive, still in Open, and without Logging.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes you should have, and yes you should.
Next time it not be an cunning wasp, but a younger player, who many not know all the meaning of the words. The commander that used inappropriate language that is against his license to play the game should be reported.

I put about on the level of combat logging :)

Simon

Hindsight, yes i should and will next time! let's hope the same Cmdr is in Shinrarta Dezerha tonight as i will be in Monty Again!
 
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