Powerplay Kill it.

Hello Commanders,

We also wanted to take a moment to talk about the Powerplay discussions. Whilst this was never planned as part of the Q4 update of Beyond, it is still a feature that we wanted to collect feedback on and investigate and we thank you for that. The discussions players have had about Powerplay give us strong guidance on how we may revise the feature in the future.

Just kill it. Seriously.

I say that as a player with 5,500+ hours in the game and with the VAST majority of that dedicated to PowerPlay.

I say this as a player who randomly stumbled into Mahon's reddit community and ended up as a leader and spokesperson for that community (though I am only speaking for myself at the moment).

I say this as a player who has spent at least a thousand hours outside (and likely at least double that) of the game working on tools, strategies and diplomacy to not only support PowerPlay but to work with the Alliance and Independent communities in Mahon space that aren't interested in PowerPlay.

I say this as someone who has watched and help Mahon grow from a medium sized power to the largest power by far in PowerPlay terms; a power that has spent 120 of 171 weeks of PowerPlay at the top of the leader board.

I say this as someone who has watched you completely ignore the players who have gone out of their way to build incredible, large and persistent communities to support the game feature that you invented. Who has watched those communities develop and grow, build their own tools to do the things that you have steadfastly refused to even consider putting into the game to improve the experience.

I say this as someone who has literally been told to stop posting bug reports about PowerPlay!

I say this as someone who chose to report PowerPlay bugs with proper investigations behind them and information in the bug reports to show how the bugs affect multiple objects in the game, rather than posting a single bug report for each of the currently minimum of 452 individual PowerPlay control systems with incorrect or misleading income numbers, and who considered arranging a "spam" campaign of the bug report forums by getting even a few people to report each of those systems individually.

I say this as someone who has watched you refuse to fix even the simplest of things in PowerPlay (why, for example, is there still a nominate option in neutral systems, when it hasn't been a feature for more than a year?)

I say this as someone who has likely put more time into trying to figure out not only which bugs exist, but how and why they manifest themselves in the game and how to work around them than all of your entire team has spent on PowerPlay bugs since its release.

I say this as someone who has watched how your complete lack of empathy and actions as well as your complete disregard for us has resulted in these communities fall apart.

I say this as someone who has watched friends suffer breakdowns and leaving the game because your neglect.

I say this as someone who knows that he is absolutely not the only one with similar experiences and feelings.

If PowerPlay was a pet, if the RSPCA hadn't intervened to take it off your hands for neglect and cruelty, you would have put it down years ago.

There are game breaking bugs in PowerPlay that were reported more than 2½ years ago, that allows powers to be borderline impervious, and the organized communities I mentioned have done their best to avoid them, because it would not be fair. Think about that for more than a second. They put what is best for PowerPlay well ahead of themselves.

The PowerPlay community does far more than just PowerPlay. I would challenge any organized group to show that they do more things in the game than we do. We use pretty much every single aspect of the game (except maybe CQC) in order to support our Powers. In Mahon we do BGS monitoring across almost 1,700 populated systems, and if we aren't doing active work in individual systems ourselves, we are in constant contact with the groups that to. While I cannot speak for the other powers, the same is likely true for the other 7,600 systems that are directly affected by PowerPlay. We are made up of some of the most dedicated players this game has.

You have always refused to reveal any kind of numbers for the game, even something as simple as proportional distribution of pledges, so we're resigned to using self-reported numbers, and according to Inara.cz almost 20 percent of the player base are pledged to a power. Considering the removal of pledges with 0 merits not too long ago, this indicates it is a fairly popular part of the game - your complete lack of interest in PowerPlay not withstanding.

At this point the PowerPlay community is suffering heavily from battered wife syndrome, and we're only staying with you because of the children.

Put us out of our misery, so that we may move on with our lives, rather than being stuck in what is an abusive relationship because we love the communities we have created too much to give up on them ourselves.

Kill it.
 
You've put in a massive amount of work into Powerplay, I got into it a while back but the bugs you mention made it so annoying I pulled the plug on it.

It's a real shame that FD's inactions have led you to feel this way. I feel that a lot of people who have been around for quite some time are starting to feel like yourself about whatever aspect of the game they favour.
 
So honeybun, any recommendations?
Suggestions on how to kill it?
A spoon, maybe?
The hairdryer?

The powers and the communities around them are some of the most dedicated in the game, engaging with a wide range of mechanics and continuously promoting Elite. They've shown tremendous commitment and are all waiting for Frontier to show the same. I know that it is difficult to ask people to continue with something that started to feel Sisyphean two years ago.

I'm hoping for good news soon, but I'm not holding my breath. It's true that powerplay was never confirmed for Q4, but with features previously confirmed for Q4 pushed back, I am struggling to imagine substantive change before summer of next year.
 
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Kill it? Forever? I hope not. But I'd be willing to meet you halfway and put it on ice, Walt Disney style, until a cure for its ills can be found.

Release its modules to the Tech Brokers, lock down the current spheres of influence to where they stand (roughly) now and call me when it's ready.

There might be some immediate fallout from the Powerplay community in the short term (I might wander off to other games for a while) but I'll come back with bells on for a re-launch of Powerplay 2 or whatever. Just as long as it's done properly. I'd rather hear that the forecast for it is Q? 2019 than the current "oh yeah we'd like to get to it".

In fact, I feel like locking it down and eventually sunset-ing it (make the current system bonuses permanent, then launch new Powers under new rules in that spot) lets you work around a lot of uncomfortable problems with the current implementation. Any substantial changes to the ways Upkeep, Income, Overhead, etc. are calculated could lead to frustration if it needs to jive with where all current powers have placed control systems, but if you start with a clean slate the communities can be happier knowing that their past good decisions are not bad ones in hindsight.
 
I suggest: Quit playing power play.


I think that's the only way to maybe kill this thing. Maybe Frontier will decide to kill or revamp this part of the game before never, if player statistics clearly picture that there is something very wrong with it - because no one plays it any more.
 
Quite frankly I'm jaded about it all. I had to get a forum infraction to simply get an answer about Powerplay which annoyed me more than words.

FD build a social hub for ED that blends strategy, politics and combat to provide deep and meaningful end game emergent content. Then they release half of it, with the released half being conceptually flawed. FD did not even tell us Collapse was not even included when it all began.

Community collate bugs and issues that seem to flow into a bin automatically.

Each year we get Powerplay ideas that go nowhere, despite them obliterating the other topics of the time almost 3:1.

I know FD had big plans for Powerplay- Powerplay introduced the first pictures of human beings in the form of 10 Tier 1 NPCs, we even had Bobbleheads of Winters and Patreus at one point, not to mention decals.

But then FD just ignore Powerplay over and over. The weekly stats that became slower and slower to post dried up with no explanation. A fog of indifference has now obscured any foreseeable future. Those portraits are the same after x years while the engineers and faction leaders have had two 3D facelifts.

In light of that I'd say kill it, but I want to hear what FD have planned for Powerplay- is it going to be rolled into Carriers, Squadrons etc? Why should players like me carry on with Powerplay, or create Powerplay content, something FD should be doing? You can't keep on promising the future to people, at some point you must decide what is to be done. Its only fair whatever your choice is.
 
I suggest: Quit playing power play.


I think that's the only way to maybe kill this thing. Maybe Frontier will decide to kill or revamp this part of the game before never, if player statistics clearly picture that there is something very wrong with it - because no one plays it any more.

They know something is very wrong, but as to the inaction I have no idea. Maybe Powerplay was a child of certain designers that now no longer work on ED, and the new guys simply don't want it?
 

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
You kill it. If you really hate it that much, why are you still engaging in power play, and if you're not then what does it matter to you if other people are?
I get it. You want PP to be better. You want it to fulfil its initial promise and you are very disappointed that it hasn't. However, that doesn't give you the right to demand it be taken away from the rest of us who still enjoy it (despite its flaws). By all means demand it be improved (although asking would be politer), and I'm sure all power-players would back you, but don't kill it for me. I still want to play.
 
You kill it. If you really hate it that much, why are you still engaging in power play,

Perhaps you're not aware that the three posters here are real champions of powerplay, leaders or highly respected members of entire PP communities and player groups and people who put massive effort trying to play this -ised child of a feature. Over the years they have asked nicely, come up with suggestions, meet with FDev designers and tried all things in their power to help make powerplay better. And thats despite soul-crushing software bugs and outrageous design flaws which often nullified WEEKS OR MONTHS of WORK of preparation and carefully orchestrated execution by several, if not hundreds of commanders. So I am not surprised that they have moved beyond (sic!) improvement suggestions.
 
I am reconsidering my earlier damp statement. Actually I am vaguely optimistic about power-play's future. This has two reasons. First, I am guarded positive that a power-play overhaul will be coming alongside with the implementation of squadrons.
Second, the recent announcement of a dedicated mission server (link) can be a very important step for the possibility that some kind of power-play missions technically could be implemented in the future, because of "Missions will now be consistent across game modes" (see link).

Cheers.
 
I agree. I would love it if they killed Powerplay. Get rid of those stupid cartoon characters and the mindless "gameplay". Or at least give us an option to turn it off, hide it, not have any trace of it in the game.
 
Relaunch it through squadron comms.

Whether you you like it or not personally, Powerplay gives platform for legal PvP (neither party becomes wanted) with consequence (reward) without reducing it to a 'report crimes off' sport.

The one thing that puts me off though is the text UI. I'm a simple soul and if I join a power as swab I'd rather you tell me clearly what to do while I learn the ropes. That means voted suggestions from more experienced players, that I hope will be enabled with the squad update.

We don't know anything about Squadrons yet though so I'm going to give a big fat -1 to the OP. o7
 
You kill it. If you really hate it that much, why are you still engaging in power play, and if you're not then what does it matter to you if other people are?
I get it. You want PP to be better. You want it to fulfil its initial promise and you are very disappointed that it hasn't. However, that doesn't give you the right to demand it be taken away from the rest of us who still enjoy it (despite its flaws). By all means demand it be improved (although asking would be politer), and I'm sure all power-players would back you, but don't kill it for me. I still want to play.

The problem is, I don't hate it and I love the community. Quitting PowerPlay means leaving the community behind rather than the communities reforming elsewhere. There's a reason I mentioned the battered wife syndrome.
 

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
Perhaps you're not aware that the three posters here are real champions of powerplay, leaders or highly respected members of entire PP communities and player groups and people who put massive effort trying to play this -ised child of a feature. Over the years they have asked nicely, come up with suggestions, meet with FDev designers and tried all things in their power to help make powerplay better. And thats despite soul-crushing software bugs and outrageous design flaws which often nullified WEEKS OR MONTHS of WORK of preparation and carefully orchestrated execution by several, if not hundreds of commanders. So I am not surprised that they have moved beyond (sic!) improvement suggestions.

I am aware, and as I said any demand for a change I (and I think everyone else), would support, but I do not support having it removed completely. No matter how 'highly respected' the person asking for it is.
 
No matter how 'highly respected' the person asking for it is.

This should never play into once own opinion, unless you find yourself unable to properly inform yourself (and that's not really the case for PowerPlay, though it does require some digging). For example, I do not have the knowledge required to properly evaluate the veracity of climate change and man's impact thereon, so I listen to the highly respected people in that community - doing otherwise would be foolish, as I would somehow think that I am smarter and more knowledgeable than they are.

I do wonder though - how do you play it? I'm leaving this question very open ended, because I don't want to use leading or argumentative questions - that would likely tarnish the answer. And I realise that (to me at least) it looks like a sort of argumentative question (as if others couldn't possibly play it the right way), but that's not intended either. I'm genuinely curious to know how PowerPlay is part of other people's gameplay, because it could easily be vastly different from my approach, and theirs could be one that revitalises me.
 

Guest 161958

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This should never play into once own opinion, unless you find yourself unable to properly inform yourself (and that's not really the case for PowerPlay, though it does require some digging). For example, I do not have the knowledge required to properly evaluate the veracity of climate change and man's impact thereon, so I listen to the highly respected people in that community - doing otherwise would be foolish, as I would somehow think that I am smarter and more knowledgeable than they are.

I do wonder though - how do you play it? I'm leaving this question very open ended, because I don't want to use leading or argumentative questions - that would likely tarnish the answer. And I realise that (to me at least) it looks like a sort of argumentative question (as if others couldn't possibly play it the right way), but that's not intended either. I'm genuinely curious to know how PowerPlay is part of other people's gameplay, because it could easily be vastly different from my approach, and theirs could be one that revitalises me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority


Even if you have more experience than others, you can still be wrong.
Your reaction is understandable but it is merely the product of a prioritization decided by Fdev.
Be patient they will work on it
 
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Or look at it this way:

Imagine having to fly to Sol from Harma, scan all of the planetary bodies several times over each day, and pay 100 million for the 'privilege'- do this for 7 days. Repeat.

Forget about doing anything else for that week. You are stuck doing that because if you stop players will exploit loopholes that will double that workload next cycle.

Now, how do you reckon it feels when all that could be stopped with the presented Powerplay feedback package- you see it, feel elation until it goes Dallas and 'was all a lovely dream'? Again.

The changes (discounting Open only and modules) are formula based with added voting options. We are not asking for new ships, feet, planets or other assets. Just numbers and a new GUI.

Its crazy.

FD and ED cry out for self sustaining emergent content, why ignore the features that add value over the long term? Powerplay can fit that need.
 
I don't do PP and never had the inclination to... my brain won't stretch that far!
But, given the amount of time you've injected into the whole area of PP I don't think it would go amiss for you (and a few others that have a similar knowledge and a desire to get it right) to have a PM from the guys working on the PP side of the game at ED for your support or for a little clarification on the future. I say a PM because the community as a whole doesn't need another hole to throw bile into.

Good luck with that.
 

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
I do wonder though - how do you play it?..


Badly. It's a badly designed and neglected part of the game. I am not disagreeing with you on that. I just want it to be improved rather than scrapped. If it's not going to be improved anytime soon then I still don't want it to disappear.
 
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