Let’s do the voting for the most wanted species???

[Danny_zoo]

I admittedly don't get what you're referencing, they both just look like big cats to me!

View attachment 192712
View attachment 192713

I'd be happy with either of them.

Of course, they are both beautiful big cats, and as you said, at the end of the day I too would be happy with either. My preference would be an African subspecies however, for all the reasons referenced above. If we ended up with the Amur subspecies, I would just do what many real life zoos do and place them in an African Savanah exhibit, while pretending they are the African subspecies. The problem is that since this is a game, and it is always an artistic compromise, with the current level of stylizing in Planet Zoo, the Amur might end up looking a lot more like a snow leopard than an African Leopard. There is always the possibility that a good mod for either can surface, but that has become quite rare in recent times and Frontier effectively annihilated most of the modding community with the last update. It was a genius business move in their part, since basically the players kept on asking for color diversity, and it was a golden opportunity to make it even harder for mods to be created. Good for Frontier, bad for the players that want as much diversity of species in their zoos as possible. So getting either sub species of Leopard as a Mod would be highly unlikely, since this would probably be one of those animals that releases with significant color variation.

 

[Aramar]

View attachment 192766View attachment 192768

I hope that when a leopard is added, they add a special tree as an enrichment item where they can lie in that iconic position

 

[Danny_zoo]

I hope that when a leopard is added, they add a special tree as an enrichment item where they can lay in that iconic position

That would be ideal, I think a dedicated thread to relevant enrichment items is in order. I have to admit that I assume many times that based on Frontier's extensive level of research for this game, there is very little that is not known to them as far as the aesthetic and functional element of the zoo world is concern. But what if I'm wrong? It could make their jobs easier to get specific recommendations, I hold a lot of them back, because It worry's me that they are misinterpreted as critique or a diss of the game, but I'm only trying to help. Designing real life zoos a lot of this enrichment stations have become second nature to me, and it is currently one of the weakest areas of the game coupled with interactive animal behavior that is directly connected to enrichment.

 

[Jeminyne]

gol

Of course, they are both beautiful big cats, and as you said, at the end of the day I too would be happy with either. My preference would be an African subspecies however, for all the reasons referenced above. If we ended up with the Amur subspecies, I would just do what many real life zoos do and place them in an African Savanah exhibit, while pretending they are the African subspecies. The problem is that since this is a game, and it is always an artistic compromise, with the current level of stylizing in Planet Zoo, the Amur might end up looking a lot more like a snow leopard than an African Leopard. There is always the possibility that a good mod for either can surface, but that has become quite rare in recent times and Frontier effectively annihilated most of the modding community with the last update. It was a genius business move in their part, since basically the players kept on asking for color diversity, and it was a golden opportunity to make it even harder for mods to be created. Good for Frontier, bad for the players that want as much diversity of species in their zoos as possible. So getting either sub species of Leopard as a Mod would be highly unlikely, since this would probably be one of those animals that releases with significant color variation.

oh wow, I never knew about that. Could you explain what about the last update affected modders, and how it affected their mods?

I also sympathize with your point about the leopards. Maybe whatever species they choose will look flexible enough to be used as either sub-species. I'd be surprised if it looked much like a snow leopard though, because they can be vibrantly gold, amber or reddish coloured, and don't have that signature tiger-like ruff of fur around their face that snow leopards kind of do.

Edit: so apparently some snow leopards don't have that, and the PZ ones only kind of do. Makes me curious how they would design a true leopard species.

 

[Danny_zoo]

gol

oh wow, I never knew about that. Could you explain what about the last update affected modders, and how it affected their mods?

I also sympathize with your point about the leopards. Maybe whatever species they choose will look flexible enough to be used as either sub-species. I'd be surprised if it looked much like a snow leopard though, because they can be vibrantly gold, amber or reddish coloured, and don't have that signature tiger-like ruff of fur around their face that snow leopards do.

Hi Jeminyne, the similarity I was referring to was structural, not coloration/markings/etc. Both the Amur and Snow leopards are thicker than the African Leopard and very similar in size. While I'm not a virtual gaming artist, and all of my artistic experience has being with physical materials, I have worked extensively on both leopards. You can easily go from a snow leopard to an Amur and the other way around, before adding fur (The snow leopard's fur is longer) and coloration. By all intends and purposes if you are creating either cat your parameters and dimensions would be pretty similar. In my opinion, Frontier would probably be able to adapt the Snow Leopard to an Amur re-skin in record time. A mod already did it somewhat effectively and it took him about a week. When you add the factor that the game does stylized their animals significantly to blend with the artistic vision of Planet Zoo and the fact that this seems to be more self evident in big cats, is a recipe for ending up with a very similar looking species.

I would be happy to explain my comments on recent modding changes, and if any of the modders out there wants to jump in and give a more precise and technical explanation please do. Before the last big update 1.3, the modding community was thriving, while there were plenty of amateur looking mods, the quality of some of the mods was impressive, and in a few cases, did the real life animals more justice since they were less stylized. Since Planet Zoo had only being out for less than a year, the mods were improving gradually and it was just a matter of time before the quality of work certain individuals produced would be impossible to differentiate from Frontier's own work. I'm an extremely picky player, when it comes to aesthetic quality, and I was using about eight mods already (giving me an additional eight species to choose from, since I would only change either males or females keeping always the Frontier model as well) In some cases the mods would just offer a less stylized version of the animal and that worked well in many cases.

Enter 1.3. The players, especially here in this forum had being very vocal and supportive of variation for the animals in the game, they wanted different shades of color, marking patterns, etc. This was a reasonable and sensical request since it would effectively add a little more character to the animals while providing a bit more individualization. Frontier jumped at the opportunity to please their player's demands and at the same time seize the moment in crippling modding operations, and placing a substantially large obstacle in front of most mods. If you were one of the players keeping up with the Nexus community, and had seen the growth trend before 1.3, the update would have seemed like a deadly virus for that community, because it is with very few exceptions virtually dead. I was a modding client that paid for several mods and they were at the same time released free to the rest of players. Now it does not matter if I offered 50 usd for an animal, no one is taking the job, since not only it would probably be impossible, but they can not guarantee long term support, since you never know what Frontier will do next. This video will explain what they did a lot better than I ever could. Let me also add that the views represented are not exactly the way I would put it, and the narrative is a bit harsh. Planet Zoo is the intellectual property of Frontier and they can do as they please with the game, we are only clients. However if you keep an open mind, and bi pass the constant attacks on the direction of the game, he is 100% correct.

DISCLAIMER: THE VIDEO DOES NOT SHOW ANY MODS, THEREFORE DOES NOT VIOLATE THE CURRENT RULES OF THE FORUM

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTOu4j3kwgM&t=2s

 

[Aero-Bubbles]

African Leopard, I prefer this subspecies but wouldn’t be against also getting the Amur, but I personally would prefer the African leopard

North American Cougar

Southern white rhino

Greater Kudu

Meerkat

Red Fox

Coyote

Moose

Elk

Sea Otter

 

[Jeminyne]

Hi Jeminyne, the similarity I was referring to was structural, not coloration/markings/etc. Both the Amur and Snow leopards are thicker than the African Leopard and very similar in size. While I'm not a virtual gaming artist, and all of my artistic experience has being with physical materials, I have worked extensively on both leopards. You can easily go from a snow leopard to an Amur and the other way around, before adding fur (The snow leopard's fur is longer) and coloration. By all intends and purposes if you are creating either cat your parameters and dimensions would be pretty similar. In my opinion, Frontier would probably be able to adapt the Snow Leopard to an Amur re-skin in record time. A mod already did it somewhat effectively and it took him about a week. When you add the factor that the game does stylized their animals significantly to blend with the artistic vision of Planet Zoo and the fact that this seems to be more self evident in big cats, is a recipe for ending up with a very similar looking species.

I would be happy to explain my comments on recent modding changes, and if any of the modders out there wants to jump in and give a more precise and technical explanation please do. Before the last big update 1.3, the modding community was thriving, while there were plenty of amateur looking mods, the quality of some of the mods was impressive, and in a few cases, did the real life animals more justice since they were less stylized. Since Planet Zoo had only being out for less than a year, the mods were improving gradually and it was just a matter of time before the quality of work certain individuals produced would be impossible to differentiate from Frontier's own work. I'm an extremely picky player, when it comes to aesthetic quality, and I was using about eight mods already (giving me an additional eight species to choose from, since I would only change either males or females keeping always the Frontier model as well) In some cases the mods would just offer a less stylized version of the animal and that worked well in many cases.

Enter 1.3. The players, especially here in this forum had being very vocal and supportive of variation for the animals in the game, they wanted different shades of color, marking patterns, etc. This was a reasonable and sensical request since it would effectively add a little more character to the animals while providing a bit more individualization. Frontier jumped at the opportunity to please their player's demands and at the same time seize the moment in crippling modding operations, and placing a substantially large obstacle in front of most mods. If you were one of the players keeping up with the Nexus community, and had seen the growth trend before 1.3, the update would have seemed like a deadly virus for that community, because it is with very few exceptions virtually dead. I was a modding client that paid for several mods and they were at the same time released free to the rest of players. Now it does not matter if I offered 50 usd for an animal, no one is taking the job, since not only it would probably be impossible, but they can not guarantee long term support, since you never know what Frontier will do next. This video will explain what they did a lot better than I ever could. Let me also add that the views represented are not exactly the way I would put it, and the narrative is a bit harsh. Planet Zoo is the intellectual property of Frontier and they can do as they please with the game, we are only clients. However if you keep an open mind, and bi pass the constant attacks on the direction of the game, he is 100% correct.

DISCLAIMER: THE VIDEO DOES NOT SHOW ANY MODS, THEREFORE DOES NOT VIOLATE THE CURRENT RULES OF THE FORUM

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTOu4j3kwgM&t=2s

Damn, I wonder if it'll be possible for these modders to do their thing again when the game is finished and they won't have to worry about new updates anymore? (I'm also stoked about Frontier having a competitor in Prehistoric Kingdom.. they need it. And we can always use more zoo games!)

 

[Danny_zoo]

Damn, I wonder if it'll be possible for these modders to do their thing again when the game is finished and they won't have to worry about new updates anymore? (I'm also stoked about Frontier having a competitor in Prehistoric Kingdom.. they need it. And we can always use more zoo games!)

Well, you never know, Frontier might change their stance when it comes to modding once all of their long term support has ran out. No one knows for certain what they will or will not do in the future. I have heard different things from modders, and their expectations, but I think it is safe to say, that Frontier holds all the cards. The biggest take away, at least for me, is that almost everyone here seems to think that large scale expansions are a no go for them, they keep on talking about it not fitting the current business model of the gaming industry. If this truly the case, then even with two or three more years of support there will be hundreds of relevant and prominent zoo animals that will be left out of the game, a great tragedy if this is the case.

Yeah, I'm happy about all the players that wanted a Prehistoric Zoo, and animals added to Planet Zoo, because that now gives them a platform to realize their dreams. Sadly for me, Prehistoric animals hold no enthusiasm, it just does not ignite anything inside of me, I can only get that from real life zoo design. There is also another concern, after the trailer, some Alpha footage has began to surface on YouTube, and while the game is still got quite a bit of time, this team has been at it for years already, and there is a lot of work still ahead. The up close footage of barriers, materials, foliage etc, revealed to me that the details and aesthetics are no where near what Planet Zoo has. It looks great from a far, like in the trailer, but the detail in the rocks, leaves, branches, tree trunks, even wood materials is not at the level of Planet Zoo, and what Frontier delivers. My biggest enthusiasm about the PK game and company was that in time they might also do a zoo game, but I do not know if they could really compete in the same platform to be completely honest.

 

[Danny_zoo]

It did occur to me that there is another reason, maybe the most prominent one, why if we only get one sub species of leopard in the game, the Amur leopard should not be it. What is one thing about the Jaguars that we all love? Their melanistic possibilities, the black Jaguars are amazing, and I have yet to find a player that would says they would have been better off without them. So here is my point, Black Amur leopards are almost non existent in their natural habitat. When a zoo in Germany had the birth of melanistic Amur leopards, it was a worldwide news in the zoo world, and a once in a lifetime event.

While African Leopards are not known for melanistic characteristic, they are a large number of recorded sighting in Equatorial Africa, within the Congo Basin and beyond. In zoo through out history, before many faced out African Leopards, there were many melanistic African Leopards in zoos and circuses. The most relevant melanistic leopards occurrence is found however in South East Asia, making an Indian or Javan leopard another possibility for the game. If we get a Leopard sub-species from South East Asia or an African one, because of their size and appearance, both species could be interchangeable. You could built an African Savannah exhibit with a regular spotted African leopard, or use their melanistic versions for a magnificent South East Asia tropical forest exhibit, with temple ruins an all.

In contrast, if we indeed receive the Amur Leopard, it all stops with that region of the world, as nothing else would really look realistic, since that particular subspecies is totally unlike any of the others. This all speculation of course, and based on the assumption that Frontier only releases one leopard, with the current state of the game, and DLC sizes, it is definitely not over reaching though, it could very well be our reality. So if we advocate for the Amur Leopard, based on just their conservation status (not the only parameter relevant to the game) we might be just setting ourselves up for receiving that sub-species as the only representative.

 

[Aramar]

Yeah, I want Bagheera in the game (and Timon too!)

 

[nutrit]

I understand the pro and cons you all have written but I would still prefer the amur subspecies. For me it is so much more interesting in 100 different ways. So respect to ya’ll but Amur is my love

here you have the black Amur leopard

 

[Danny_zoo]

Yeah, I want Bagheera in the game (and Timon too!)

I had to look up Timon to see who it was, Meerkats That would be amazing, I can only dream of them, Asian river otters and a few more, I truly wish it happens. An enrichment station that resembles a large burrow habitat with many different tunnels for them to climb in and out would be a dream, and it could simplify the need for extensive new gameplay mechanics needed. Since I think it would be unrealistic for players to expect frontier to allow us to built borrows in dirt using the terrain feature, that would not work well in my opinion. My only concern is that I read an interview where Frontier specifically mentioned Meerkats as being too small for the game, not sure why that would matter, but they believe that most players would play the game from an aerial perspective, making it difficult to track and spot them. If that was the case, we should have gotten Giant Elands and Greater Kudus, by far the two largest and most impressive antelope species, so you never truly know with Frontier, they are odd at times.

 

[Danny_zoo]

I understand the pro and cons you all have written but I would still prefer the amur subspecies. For me it is so much more interesting in 100 different ways. So respect to ya’ll but Amur is my love
View attachment 192807
here you have the black Amur leopard
View attachment 192806

Definitely respect your position, we all have preferences. And the first picture in the snow looks magnificent. Like I said ideally we would have both. The second picture of the melanistic variation, shows a puffy cat, lol, sorry, I know you love them. For me it is the leopard that retired and eats ice cream now every night I hope we get both.

 

[Danny_zoo]

The first time I was in love with Black Leopards was in the Bronx Zoo, many many years ago. Surprisingly today until recently at least they still had them at their Award wining exhibit Jungle World. Tierpark Berlin also had a large collection of them at one point, even though their collection has been gradually scaled down thru the years, and most recently with the closure and repurposing of the Alfred Brehm Haus. Would like to definitely see a melanistic Amur Leopard though, it would be a first.

 

[Jeminyne]

Definitely respect your position, we all have preferences. And the first picture in the snow looks magnificent. Like I said ideally we would have both. The second picture of the melanistic variation, shows a puffy cat, lol, sorry, I know you love them. For me it is the leopard that retired and eats ice cream now every night I hope we get both.

personally I'd love the Sri Lankan leopard most. They're the largest subspecies (due to no lions or tigers around), and could substitute for either African or Amur leopards depending on how they're modelled

also love these pictures of melanistic Indian leopards:

sorry to have made this a leopard thread! I should have just linked to my old thread here

 

[nutrit]

I heard that they plan to make rainforest jungle in Alfred Brehm House. It is good in some way but I will miss this building very much. It was always the most spectacular collection of carnivores I have ever seen. I am so impressed by your zoo knowledge Danny_zoo
Loved your photos

 

[Danny_zoo]

I heard that they plan to make rainforest jungle in Alfred Brehm House. It is good in some way but I will miss this building very much. It was always the most spectacular collection of carnivores I have ever seen. I am so impressed by your zoo knowledge Danny_zoo
Loved your photos
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Nutrit the renovated Alfred Brehm Haus is already open, and it is spectacular. Even before its many renovations, going back to the original design this was an architectural gem. Its minimalistic enclosure design with the colorful tiles and small quarters was not for everyone, and I understand it, but from an architectural stand point it was a truly unique vision. The newly open Alfred Brehm Haus has done a great job of expanding the habitat space for the remaining collection, and for this of course, they had to scale down significantly in the collection. It is a compromise/sacrifice that the German institutions have recently began making and following in the footsteps of their North American counterparts. The Great Zoological collection of both Berlin Parks is truly on its last legs, as this will be the last generation of rarely exhibited species presented to the public. Each and every time that one of the parks initiates a great project, more and more species are faced out, many still reside at the parks, just away from public viewing. This happen already during the course of many years with the great and large zoos of North America, and today they are virtually mirror each other, as the emphasis is endangered species and those facing tremendous challenges in their natural habitats, others never did good in captivity and a sustainable population was impossible to maintain going forward, as it is no longer acceptable to take them from their natural environments without a really good excuse to do so.

I collect a lot of media, photos, blueprints, art of various types, but all related to zoos, wildlife and flora. I'm an landscape architect by profession, but have dedicated most of my life to the zoo planning and design industry, that is where my knowledge comes from. At the age of 5 I was already drawing my first zoo layout, lol, and its been a wild ride ever since. Where are you from Nutrit, and what draws you to the game and zoos as a whole?

By the way, excellent thread, when I first tried to answer your question I realized it was one of the hardest ones ever asked, at least for me, so difficult to pick one species over the other, what a process. I can only imagine the poor Planet Zoo devs trying to narrow down their very extensive list to what we actually received in the game. I have always wondered how many of the DLC animals were already there, meaning pre planned before the actual game was released. Something tells me that they have a road map already of where they are going with this game (animal wise) and with very few exceptions will not deviate from it, regardless of how much demand there is for a certain species. Maybe next year we get some of the Wishlist animals, but I think this year is pretty and possibly the beginning of the next is already a done deal.

 

[Bearcat9948]

Just wanted to make one small observation: if PZ doesn't end up getting aviaries or aquatic animals and diving capabilities, meaning they just continue adding four animals per dlc, 3-4 times a year for 3 total years, AND they don't adding full modding support after they are done making dlc....man this game will die within a year of that happening. It's already at it's lowest player levels

 

[Danny_zoo]

personally I'd love the Sri Lankan leopard most. They're the largest subspecies (due to no lions or tigers around), and could substitute for either African or Amur leopards depending on how they're modelled

View attachment 192815

also love these pictures of melanistic Indian leopards:

View attachment 192816

View attachment 192821
View attachment 192820

sorry to have made this a leopard thread! I should have just linked to my old thread here

Lol, I know we have taken over the thread with the Leopards, but Nutrit has been a gracious host, and I believe wants Leopards as well. Love the Sri Lankan sub species, and have absolutely no issue with it taking the representative spot, not sure if others would compromise. In my opinion the Amur Leopard because of its critical status really needs to make into the game, but we also need at least one of the other leopards any one of them will do, and it is more than possible, since we have two tiger sub species, two wolves, and a whole lot of bears. However even though they are not true leopards, the game already has a snow leopard, and they will surely release a clouded leopard at some point (there is no scenario where I do not see clouded leopards joining the game) so it all depends how Frontier views this, how many leopards are too many?

 

[Danny_zoo]

Just wanted to make one small observation: if PZ doesn't end up getting aviaries or aquatic animals and diving capabilities, meaning they just continue adding four animals per dlc, 3-4 times a year for 3 total years, AND they don't adding full modding support after they are done making dlc....man this game will die within a year of that happening. It's already at it's lowest player levels

I think that starting with December's DLC we will definitely see a change, the only thing that has been odd, is that for something larger than usual and especially something that has been requested by so many throughout every platform, there has been zero marketing. Now, I never followed Frontier before Planet Zoo, but if there is anyone here that used to follow Planet Coaster, they might be able to describe is fact this has always been their MO.

Never truly understood why Frontier does not promote their DLCs with a little more anticipation. I understand that they market themselves once they are released, by the players themselves, but why not create some kind of built up? I do agree with you that with just 3 dlcs a year that only feature the same amount of content it would be a tragedy for this game, and its potential. But I might be wrong, for me the DLCs have always being underpriced, and I have been begging for more content with higher prices, but it seems that a large segment of the players already find this expensive, so I'm at a loss when it comes to what they video game industry wants and can afford. Because if there is no motivation in releasing a larger DLC at a cost of 20 to 30 euros because everyone will complain, then what is the point? Why should Frontier change anything? In the little time I have been around this forum and industry, I have realized that one thing you can count on in this business is complaints. I have done plenty of that, but always in good spirits and trying to elevate the game. However no matter what you do, someone is always unhappy.