LIFETIME Expansion pass, and Python Mk2

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
hmm just learned of this.
sorry if am being dumb.. is this just paying arx for a beta test of the ship early but then on launch everyone needs to buy the game with in game credits as usual? if so i cant say i care either way if the LEP gets it or not (I have an LEP but that is by the by).

OR is this now FD selling ships for cash, and that ship will be available for them to keep in game where as everyone else needs to grind it out to spec an equivalent ship in the game? if it is the latter, i am less bothered about the LEP or not but more interested in the fact that FD stated from the get go that only cosmetics would be sold for cash and that there would be no P2W (note i am using the general meaning of P2W not the literal dictionary definition) in the game.

is it engineered or is it just credits? with credit inflation what it is, so long as it doesnt cost 5 billion or something i dont mind thre either personally (but accept it is a bad look still) but if you can buy pre engineered ships then that is awful, and would be worse than what star citizen is doing imo.

it is what it is and nothing anyone says here will change anything , however if anyone here has ever complained about star citizen selling ships and are now defending FD, then i would say the hypocrisy would be strong in that.
 
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Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
NeoTron said:
Again missing the point. The paintjobs and snowman and wasn't expansions either. It was a reward given to people that spent a large amount of money to support Frontier and getting barely anything for it.
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You're not happy about the yield of the LEP, I guess. You took a gamble and it didn't pay off. Yet, I have seen users, who seemed to be content with their LEP performance when Odyssey launched. Objectively I think it's a mixed bag when adding up the numbers of purchase cost at launch dates.
Still, the LEP doesn't entitle to any content - just major expansions and I think those are now complete. Whatever FD gives in addition is up to their discretion. As always I can only give advice to not preorder, pre-pay or subscribe to any non-specified "future content" that may or may not arrive. It's as simple as that.
 

Scoob

Scoob
Back in the kickstarter days, what's now known as the "LEP" loosely described as "access to all future expansions and updates (DLC)" no mention of Seasons or anything like that. I known there was talk about whether Cosmetics (that are content you download) were DLC or not. FDev saying not, as they're not an expansion or update.

What did that original version of the LEP actually give in the end? Just Horizons and Odyssey right? Plus early access to some Betas... when did we last have a Beta?

Regarding what Kickstarter backers of a certain level were promised:

1713955670633.png


So, as someone who backed for over that £90 threshold (almost £150 in today's money), I get any expansions or updates for free.

Does adding ships to the game expand it? Of course, ships are the focal point of the game, but it can be argued that's not what FDev meant*. Will the addition of new ships update the game? I imagine an update will be required to add them to the game. Again, FDev can further define what they mean* by "updates". So, free, but it doesn't say free when.

Note: there's also stuff about qualifying for beta access etc., but I just wanted to share this bit.

* In stuff like this, there's a degree of "what would your average person reasonably interpret this to mean". A company might say "Oh, it means this of course, not that". But legally, that's not necessarily sufficient if those on the other side of the contract understood it to mean something else. Just a point of interest, I'm not going to get into it.
 

amigacooke

amigacooke
Scoob said:
View attachment 390643

So, as someone who backed for over that £90 threshold (almost £150 in today's money), I get any expansions or updates for free.
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And so you will, but not at launch. Does the LEP confer any benefit in this case? No, none at all it appears.

Someone at Frontier has been brilliant. If you spend your money on ARX I don’t believe you are entitled to a refund, you will have what you paid for. A ‘currency’ that is worthless outside of ED.
 

de_richleau

D
Scoob said:
Back in the kickstarter days, what's now known as the "LEP" loosely described as "access to all future expansions and updates (DLC)" no mention of Seasons or anything like that. I known there was talk about whether Cosmetics (that are content you download) were DLC or not. FDev saying not, as they're not an expansion or update.

What did that original version of the LEP actually give in the end? Just Horizons and Odyssey right? Plus early access to some Betas... when did we last have a Beta?

Regarding what Kickstarter backers of a certain level were promised:

View attachment 390643

So, as someone who backed for over that £90 threshold (almost £150 in today's money), I get any expansions or updates for free.

Does adding ships to the game expand it? Of course, ships are the focal point of the game, but it can be argued that's not what FDev meant*. Will the addition of new ships update the game? I imagine an update will be required to add them to the game. Again, FDev can further define what they mean* by "updates". So, free, but it doesn't say free when.

Note: there's also stuff about qualifying for beta access etc., but I just wanted to share this bit.

* In stuff like this, there's a degree of "what would your average person reasonably interpret this to mean". A company might say "Oh, it means this of course, not that". But legally, that's not necessarily sufficient if those on the other side of the contract understood it to mean something else. Just a point of interest, I'm not going to get into it.
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I can't help thinking this has deliberately been set up in a way to attempt to circumvent the LEP (at least if a strict interpretation of the wording of the LEP is used), which would be disappointing - although perhaps speaks to a serious need to bring in funding?

Incidentally, that's the version of the LEP I have too, and I would think the Kickstarter LEP might technically cover this. Ultimately the consumer should get the benefit of any ambiguity in interpretation.

I mean I don't mind it for this ship particularly, and we get it eventually anyway of course. As it happens I'm heading to Sag A at the moment so probably wouldn't be back in time to make use of early access anyway, but it's a shame if going forward FDEV will release new content and updates with conditions designed to exclude them from the benefit of the LEP.
 
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Sublime

S
Scoob said:
What did that original version of the LEP actually give in the end? Just Horizons and Odyssey right? Plus early access to some Betas... when did we last have a Beta?
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Here’s a list of everything LEP holders got so far. There’s quite a few items besides those expansions. Midnight black paint jobs for 31 ships, how much is that worth when you convert to $?

There have been other expensive paint jobs and decorative accessories given out as well.

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

Lifetime Expansion Pass

The Lifetime Expansion Pass or LEP is a content pass for Elite Dangerous that includes ownership of any and all expansions produced for the game, plus access to all betas and a selection of cosmetic Livery items. The LEP was included as a backer reward for purchasers of the £80 "Digital Download...
elite-dangerous.fandom.com elite-dangerous.fandom.com

The P2 doesn’t sound like a beta. It sounds like it’s fully ready in May and people can spend arx to get it early or wait to play with it in August. FDEV may decide to give it out to some people for free but they’re certainly not entitled to it, it’s like a ship kit being released to the arx store.

Yes that’s a lame move, and I for one will not be paying the arx simply because I don’t believe they deserve any more extra $$ from me based on their actions so far, but others will feel differently.
 
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[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
out of curiosity has FD actually confirmed it wont be part of the life time pass anyway? As a LEP holder i am not fussed either way if i get it if its just getting it a few months earlier in any case, and actually whether i get it or not is irrelevant to my concerns about the ship being purchasable for cash

however unless LEP holder have been specifically ruled out of getting it, i would not be surprised if we did.

what percentage of elite owners have the LEP?
what percentage of LEP owners still play elite?
what percentage of LEP owners who still play elite would actually pay £10 to have the ship if it isnt included in the pass?

because realistically we could be talking about a minority in a minority in a minority of elite players and if so not giving it out may cause more negative press than the potential money lost by giving it out for free to those players. I expect the likes of PC gamer will have a story on it at some point because back in the day they were huge proponents of Elite.
 
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Phoenix_Dfire

Phoenix_Dfire
Viaharo said:
Question to Frontier,

So with the LEP, us holders are supposed to get access to new content added to the game etc.
With Frontier going in to selling ships, all good and fine. No complaints, They have to stay in business.
My issue with it is, the new python mk2 is locked behind "purchase" now in the arx store to get early preview before release.
This kinda goes against the spirit of the LEP when it was put out possibly.
Is that arx cost for us LEP holders going to be 0, or will it be available for us LEP holders from the preview date in the regular ship stores?

Or is this the Beginning of the end of the LEP promise?
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If it had been that the python MK II was only available via ARX (like folks who don't have odyssey), then yes you could argue that us LEP holders would have something to grumble about. However, its available to us for free on the 7th of August, so technically we still are getting all new DLC content, you've just got the option to get it earlier if you want (and lets be honest fdev really needs the cash right now)!
 

Flimley

Flimley
I think it's likely frontier has slipped free of this commitment legally. As, in this case the new ships are presented as an Arx purchase. Rather than paid with direct currency DLC. This is likely a concerted choice.
However, I believe they could be possibly mulling it over, and normally frontier takes a goodwill stance where possible?
There can't be many of us left anyways.
.... we shall see.

Flimley
 
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[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
legally i am certain FD are fine............. Never say never and all that because there is usually someone......... but i dont think i have seen anyone throwing toys out of the pram threatening legal action yet!. If they do i cant imagine FD worrying too much.

(but now i have said that......................... :D )

However as Gerald Ratner found out, it isnt true that all publicity is good publicity and FD could be completely legally in the right, but it doesn't mean that reputationally harm wont be done if Elite gets the reputation of selling P2W stuff for cash and reneging on kickstarter perks in some social media ....storm .

I have already seen posts on non gaming forums i am a member of (but with a small gaming section) and news of cash ships in Elite is not positive on them (I have kept out of replying on them for now)
 
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de_richleau

D
Flimley said:
I think it's likely frontier has slipped free of this commitment legally. As, in this case the new ships are presented as an Arx purchase. Rather than paid with direct currency DLC. This is likely a concerted choice.
However, I believe they could be possibly mulling it over, and normally frontier takes a goodwill stance where possible?
There can't be many of us left anyways.
.... we shall see.

Flimley
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Yes, they may have kept things vague on the LEP front in the announcement to see what the reaction is before they commit themselves on this either way.
 

Phoenix_Dfire

Phoenix_Dfire
amigacooke {macOS} said:
Then trying to get cash for a free item seems a not ideal way to do it, especially as some have the ARX reserves and more through play.

It seems a strange way to encourage new users, buy the game and then cough up more for a time delayed release.
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Can you really see a new user wanting to spend £25 on both Elite + Odyssey and then saying "I know what would complete my life, having a python 3 months early, have £10 more!"

That python is for us old timers dying to try out something new.
 

amigacooke

amigacooke
Phoenix_Dfire said:
Can you really see a new user wanting to spend £25 on both Elite + Odyssey and then saying "I know what would complete my life, having a python 3 months early, have £10 more!"

That python is for us old timers dying to try out something new.
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I can see them being surprised that having just bought the game, they are excluded from the latest content.

I know I would be.
 

Northpin

Northpin
amigacooke {macOS} said:
I can see them being surprised that having just bought the game, they are excluded from the latest content.

I know I would be.
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you mean, like i was back then at the end of 2018 when i was trying to find the Cobra Mk4 in the stations where EDDB said i would find it only to never find it in the game.
And then to find out after digging the internet that Cobra Mk4 was an exclusive ship, even tho it was listed on the official website among the other ships as Flyable (but no mention that it wasnt flyable by anyone, but by an exclusive few)
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
amigacooke {macOS} said:
Which was the original point I made, having just bought the game, a new commander will have to pay extra to get the latest content. Possibly an unpleasant surprise.
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I'd argue that its essentially pre-release though- its ensuring players know (especially in game) that its a time limited offer and that they'll get it free in August.
 
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