LIFETIME Expansion pass, and Python Mk2

[[VR] Mad Mike]

missread.. ignore!
in which case i just hope the ship we buy with credits is the same as the one that is bought with cash and no materials needed to match the cash ship.

also would be interested to know the insurance on them... is it life time insurance or could a paid ship be wiped from your account if you cant cover the excess.

 

[CMDR ROGER]

Should an LEP get everything else in the store for free? They are adding something that you will be able to buy in game like anyone else and it is not being added as part of a paid expansion, so I really don't see what the problem is.

It's an entire ship, not a tacky paint job.

 

[Viaharo]

Its simple.
1. Is the new ship 'content' or cosmetic. (obv going to be content and by very nature then expansion of ship line up, since its tailored to a specific niche in game)
2. Is the new ship entering the game in a 'preview mode' locked behind a paywall for 3 months, likely where they will balance and adjust the ship before public release, aka beta release.
Answer to both is yes and really cant be disputed.
Though really my question was to frontier vs general debate, since really its their opinion that makes or breaks how things go for LEP holders.

LEP original verbatim from the actual frontier store using internet archive.
""players will be able to purchase a Lifetime Expansion Pass granting access to all current and future Seasons of Elite: Dangerous. The Lifetime Expansion Pass also includes access to all Elite: Dangerous Beta builds to gain an early glimpse at upcoming game content before release plus exclusive content.""

 

[Rubbernuke]

You think Frontier will advertise this?

What I mean is, in game its very clear that a PM2 is ARX only in the shipyard UI, and that every player gets a message. You want to avoid the CM4 situation where norms could not buy the CM4, despite them flying about.

 

[babelfisch]

In my opinion they got it all wrong. Just forget about all the early access nonsense. Sell the new ships as DLC and keep it that way. Give it for free to owners of the LEP.

By the way, I think it's a pretty bad move to charge LEPers for the Python EA.

 

[amigacooke]

What I mean is, in game its very clear that a PM2 is ARX only in the shipyard UI, and that every player gets a message. You want to avoid the CM4 situation where norms could not buy the CM4, despite them flying about.

Clearly Frontier want to avoid the Cobra 4 mistake, but have they come up with an all new mistake (abeit time limited)?

Bit like BlackAdder 'Here's a new ship ... which I'm not going to give you'.

 

[FixMeNow]

LEP owners won't get it for free.

But when you find out you can't do a certain task in game because you didn't pay early access to unlock the only ship that can do it. Well yea that will seem like abit of a kick in the teeth.

But yea like Fdev care, aslong as the cash rolls in.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Clearly Frontier want to avoid the Cobra 4 mistake, but have they come up with an all new mistake (abeit time limited)?

Only time will tell. Hopefully the store streamlining and improvement extends to the in game UI as well.

 

[Vedmo]

Is the new ship entering the game in a 'preview mode' locked behind a paywall for 3 months, likely where they will balance and adjust the ship before public release, aka beta release.

Beta game and live game are two different things. I can’t brush that aside as a close enough, and find flaw in such reasoning. Whether by design or happenstance, using ARX (both purchasable and available to earn in game without purchase) in conjunction with early access in the live (not beta, whether they tweak things later or not) game appears to be an LEP work around.

 

[Morbad]

Or is this the Beginning of the end of the LEP promise?

Neither.

As has been mentioned the LEP only ever advertised to expansions and betas. There was no mention of access to any other paid content.

Paul's post about the LEP follows the letter of the law, but not the spirit.

Contracts don't have spirit, just legalese and loopholes (sounds like a tabletop RPG).

You're not happy about the yield of the LEP, I guess. You took a gamble and it didn't pay off.

This is me. I still think it's pretty clear that a ship paid for with Arx isn't under the purview of the LEP.

It's an entire ship, not a tacky paint job.

Even more incentive for Frontier to charge for it rather than give it away, if they aren't contractually bound to give it away, and they aren't.

By the way, I think it's a pretty bad move to charge LEPers for the Python EA.

I think anything that smells even vaguely like P2W is a bad move for players and the game as a whole.

However, Frontier's perspective is going to be dictated by an expense/return ratio and little else.

 

[dannysquid]

I'm an LEP person and I don't think it would have occurred to me I'd get this sort of thing for free. Maybe in some strict letter of the law sort of way I should, but it's not throwing toys out of pram time. I'm more keen that they find new ways to keep the game going than anything else!

 

[PiLhEaD]

...
But a feature, like a ship being locked to arx for a "preview" for sure goes against the spirit of the LEP's.
It it self is a feature of the game not a cosmetic.
I'm not talking the custom build ships .....

Agreed. Succinctly this sums up why.

If LEP owners got access to paid beta's (I believe we did, but correct me if wrong) then this situation is directly analogous.

 

[PiLhEaD]

....
As has been mentioned the LEP only ever advertised to expansions and betas. There was no mention of access to any other paid content.
.....

Genuinely intrigued: How is paid content not an expansion?

 

[amigacooke]

Neither.

As has been mentioned the LEP only ever advertised to expansions and betas. There was no mention of access to any other paid content.

Will I have to pay for updates, or expansions, or new content?

Some new features and content will be paid for, especially those that build significantly on the game. If you have pledged to £90 tier or higher then any expansions or updates are free.

 

[Vedmo]

Will I have to pay for updates, or expansions, or new content?
Some new features and content will be paid for, especially those that build significantly on the game. If you have pledged to £90 tier or higher then any expansions or updates are free.

Update 19 will be free, no?

edit:
I didn’t intend that to be snarky. They sold the LEP under a monetization model of paid expansions, and if this model is being abandoned in favor of live game early access for money, or maybe that’s too nice and I should say delayed access for those who don’t pay up, then I do see a legitimate gripe from those who purchased insurance from future costs.

 

[Morbad]

Genuinely intrigued: How is paid content not an expansion?

"Expansion" in this case isn't just any additional content; that would cover literally everything, including all cosmetics.

An expansion is a "major downloadable expansion pack", or a Season, that they charge for.

Elite Dangerous: Lifetime Expansion Pass - Elite: Dangerous - Games

<p>Elite: Dangerous is the definitive massively multiplayer space epic, bringing gaming’s original open world adventure to the modern generation with a connected galaxy, evolving narrative and the entirety of the Milky Way re-created at its full galactic

web.archive.org

https://customersupport.frontier.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360020506959-What-does-my-version-of-Elite-Dangerous-include-and-does-it-grant-access-to-Odyssey

Will I have to pay for updates, or expansions, or new content?
Some new features and content will be paid for, especially those that build significantly on the game. If you have pledged to £90 tier or higher then any expansions or updates are free.

Even if the Kickstarted FAQ was legally binding, there is no way that Frontier is going to consider a ship locked behind a temporary paywall as an 'expansion or update'. There are countless ways they can stick to a reasonable interpretation of the letter of the agreement and give nothing.

If one's perception of what the LEP was supposed to deliver took the FAQ statement to mean literally every addition to the game, then one should have sought a refund the moment they started selling cosmetics that weren't included.

 

[Alien]

LEP owners won't get it for free.

But when you find out you can't do a certain task in game because you didn't pay early access to unlock the only ship that can do it. Well yea that will seem like abit of a kick in the teeth.

But yea like Fdev care, aslong as the cash rolls in.

You've totally misread what Frontier have said.

LEP holders DO get it "for free". Everyone with Odyssey can buy it in-game from Aug 7th, that includes LEP holders because they have Odyssey because they have the LEP (it's really not hard to understand).

We don't know if the Python mkII is the only ship that can "do a certain task" because we don't know what that task is yet or how to do it or how the Python mkII is "functionally different".

 

[PiLhEaD]

"Expansion" in this case isn't just any additional content; that would cover literally everything, including all cosmetics.

An expansion is a "major downloadable expansion pack", or a Season, that they charge for....

My feeling is that any addition to gameplay is, by definition, an expansion to the game. Be it a single ship or an entire swathe of changes as per Horizon.

Cosmetics are not gameplay. A new ship is. To my way of thinking.

TBH, it's all a bit moot as I don't think FDev will take this/my view.

 

[PiLhEaD]

...We don't know if the Python mkII is the only ship that can "do a certain task" because we don't know what that task is yet or how to do it or how the Python mkII is "functionally different".

Indeed!!!

It could yet be as well received as the Cobra IV... or the Asp Scout...

...I'll see myself out.....

 

[de_richleau]

I don't find the exclusion of the LEP benefit from this ship in itself a particular problem (although I do think this is arguably a paid upgrade for the purposes of the Kickstarter LEP.)

What's more concerning to me is that I suspect this is the first dip of the toe into an approach which renders the LEP defunct from hereon in - which in turn makes me question where the game is actually going to go from here.

It was £95 ten years ago or so, and I've had countless hours on Elite so hardly a bad investment. This is a bit of a quick cash grab though, and there's something about this which makes me feel for the first time that we're in the latter days of Elite Dangerous.