Lifetime pass and general update questions

[Heater]

I think FDev is between a rock and a hard place,
Back When the closed beta / open beta was running, They were quite open on the upcoming changes and when things were changed/delayed people were ****ed off etc...
So now they are not open about upcoming changes and people are ****ed off...
it's a catch 22 for them, no matter what they do, some players expectations will not be met and people will be ****ed off.
Granted the communication from them and the unresolved issues with the game do not help, but for now it's a "wait and see"
The big question is wait for how long and will it be worth it.
I really do hope the pull it off!
Will it be perfect.... NO
Will it have Bugs.... YES
Will FDev sort it out... Time will Tell.

 

[Viajero]

This felt a bit like a bait-and-switch for people who bought the LEP based on was was hinted at back then and left a bad taste.

I bought the LEP and can confirm this is incorrect in my case. Either that or I am not “people”

Why do so many people seem to have the notion that information/news is strictly binary, either all or none?

Irony-meter level: Grand Master!

More seriously, fully agree with you Will s post yesterday was great.

 

[Riverside]

Well, specifics is a strong word. Why do so many people seem to have the notion that information/news is strictly binary, either all or none?

Very much this. I have asked several questions in this thread, none of which are 'is it going to be spacelegs?' or similar. Will's Lavecon post yesterday was fine, when he does post (or livestream etc) he is very good.

 

[babelfisch]

What was talked about back then and what was actually delivered during the last couple of years are completely different things. This felt a bit like a bait-and-switch for people who bought the LEP based on was was hinted at back then and left a bad taste.

Planetary Landings, SLF, Passenger Missions, Thargoids, Mining, Trading, Exploration etc. is stuff that actually was talked about. Even Powerplay was kinda part of the DDA because of Tier 1 NPCs. The only thing they didn't talk about was CQC. I am not sure about crafting though, but I believe the plan was always to have variations of each module.

 

[Viajero]

Planetary Landings, SLF, Passenger Missions, Thargoids, Mining, Trading, Exploration etc. is stuff that actually was talked about. Even Powerplay was kinda part of the DDA because of Tier 1 NPCs. The only thing they didn't talk about was CQC. I am not sure about crafting though, but I believe the plan was always to have variations of each module.

Crafting was indeed discussed informally with devs in the forums before Horizons confirmed it. I can probably even source some of those posts later today unless someone does it faster.

 

[zimms]

I bought the LEP and can confirm this is incorrect in my case. Either that or I am not “people”

Obviously I meant to say "some people". Fixed it.

And yeah, the info/binary sentence is a bit weird, but you get what I mean.

 

[Viajero]

Crafting was indeed discussed informally with devs in the forums before Horizons confirmed it. I can probably even source some of those posts later today unless someone does it faster.

Seems the old link I had became unreachable with the new forum etc. In essence Mike Evans posted informally about a potential crafting system in draft, this was before Horizons, where he described how we would have to work to get those materials etc. In essence not too far from what we actually got.

 

[Ipecac]

They were quite open on the upcoming changes and when things were changed/delayed people were ****ed off etc...
So now they are not open about upcoming changes and people are ****ed off...
it's a catch 22 for them, no matter what they do, some players expectations will not be met and people will be ****ed off.

This is exactly what I meant, well said.

I mean, all games have negative feedback on the forums, but I'm just amazed at how hard people are on the Frontier crew on here. There's so much "the devs have no idea what they're doing" or worse. It's surprising because Elite is such a functional, large and well assembled game.
Yes it needs a lot of adjustment still, but both Elite and SC were clearly long-run projects. If they were making The Witcher 3, it would be done and all fleshed out, but this is a much larger and more dynamic project.

I really hope that Frontier folks dont take the negative too much to heart, and can see that it's source isn't that people think Elite sucks, it's that they want MORE and they want it NOW!

/queue Queen track

 

[Tikanderoga]

I really hope that Frontier folks dont take the negative too much to heart, and can see that it's source isn't that people think Elite sucks, it's that they want MORE and they want it NOW!

I think the reason for all this negativity is because the game has some major flaws, it is riddled with bugs, and FD fixes bugs that are beneficial to the players much faster than the ones that are detrimental to them. Also issues like the game running stale, making the players bored. There is only so much you can do, and current content with the latest patch was rather shallow. Sure, explorers got their space golf and radio button simulator, this is a feature some love, others hate. I like the golf part, hate the radio part.
I think we all agree that the core mining is good fun and good value for money.

But what I think leaves the community very salty is unaddressed issues:
Cheating
combat logging
bugs bugs and bugs
Mission board issues
Wing mission risk & reward

And also the fact that we won't be getting any new content for a good 2 years. 2 years of the same (December 2018 to "late 2020"). Elite is a great game, it has lots of potential, but unless your start RPing, the content only runs a few inches deep.

Let's compare it to other MMOs (which basically Elite is too) :
World of Warcraft is getting new content every 6-12 months. New raids, new mechanics, new areas to explore and do stuff, new mobs to kill, new pets to catch, new mounts to find, new riddles to solve. Sure, the quests are pretty much the same but in a different coat: Kill X, Bring me Y, Escort Z. But what keeps people playing is the loot mechanism. Keep raiding or running dungeons until you get that item to drop for you.

And I think that's a game loop that Elite would benefit from, big time. Find a module, scoop it up as cargo (would be big cargo) and bring it to an engineer who then could make it fit to your ship. Keeps players playing and depending on what it is, would actually encourage players to make use of wings more than now. Say a souped up FSD only drops from a Medusa - everyone would want one. But you'd need to be there to get it. So really, something like that would go a long way.

In its current state, the game is static, nothing changes, some BGS changes names on who runs a system, and not everyone cares about it.
Players are sitting on billions of credits with nothing to spend on. Our hangars are full, mats are at max, now wait for 18 months?!?

So in a nut shell: we have what we have for the next 18 months until new mechanics come to play and new content gets added.
I understand people being salty and negative about it, especially LEPs, since they paid much more than they would have, since they believed in the future of the game, and they feel let down by their investment.

 

[Ipecac]

And also the fact that we won't be getting any new content for a good 2 years. 2 years of the same (December 2018 to "late 2020"). Elite is a great game, it has lots of potential, but unless your start RPing, the content only runs a few inches deep.

Didn't we get these exploration, mining, squadron etc updates less than a year ago? Also, isn't there another Beyond update coming this year? That's not nothing for 2 years.

Let's compare it to other MMOs (which basically Elite is too) :
World of Warcraft is getting...

Dude, you just compared Elite Dangerous to World of Warcraft. They're so-- It's just so-- You might as well compare it to Super Mario Brothers 2. If we were all driving around on a lunar surface, collecting missions from "!" and giving boar meats to "?" and all of Elite's features were on that surface, well, that's like apples and-- grapes?

I'm not trying to be snooty, it's just that if you compare a sim like Elite, with economic mumbo-jumbo running in the background and the flight physics and limpets and loot floating and hyperjumps you can track into supercruise or into other systems and all that stuff, to World of Warcraft, you're always going to be dissatisfied with the rate of content release. It's more than an issue of reskinning guys and adding landscape and mission text, scripted cutscenes and 3d models with inventory thumbnails (obviously I'm over simplifying, and also I'm not a programmer so I don't know).

I am actually a designer of tabletop roleplaying games--obviously apples and oranges, but I can tell you that when you introduce a mechanic to a game it has to gel with a hundred other things and stay balanced. That's because tabletop roleplaying games and Elite dangerous are dynamic worlds with systems. Boardgames and World of Warcraft are 2 dimensional by comparison and therefore much easier to release expansion content for.

My game was nominated for the Origin and Ennie awards for Best Game, so "Hmm-mm-mmm (pleased-with-self-face)" lol

 

[Tikanderoga]

Didn't we get these exploration, mining, squadron etc updates less than a year ago? Also, isn't there another Beyond update coming this year? That's not nothing for 2 years.

They said minor updates and QoL improvements. Nothing major, really.
The biggest updated was the starter area for new players. For any existing players, it's nothing, really, except gankers and greifers can't go to town in there and blow up Sidewinders.

Dude, you just compared Elite Dangerous to World of Warcraft. They're so-- It's just so-- You might as well compare it to Super Mario Brothers 2. If we were all driving around on a lunar surface, collecting missions from "!" and giving boar meats to "?" and all of Elite's features were on that surface, well, that's like apples and-- grapes?

I'm not trying to be snooty, it's just that if you compare a sim like Elite, with economic mumbo-jumbo running in the background and the flight physics and limpets and loot floating and hyperjumps you can track into supercruise or into other systems and all that stuff, to World of Warcraft, you're always going to be dissatisfied with the rate of content release. It's more than an issue of reskinning guys and adding landscape and mission text, scripted cutscenes and 3d models with inventory thumbnails (obviously I'm over simplifying, and also I'm not a programmer so I don't know).

I am actually a designer of tabletop roleplaying games--obviously apples and oranges, but I can tell you that when you introduce a mechanic to a game it has to gel with a hundred other things and stay balanced. That's because tabletop roleplaying games and Elite dangerous are dynamic worlds with systems. Boardgames and World of Warcraft are 2 dimensional by comparison and therefore much easier to release expansion content for.

My game was nominated for the Origin and Ennie awards for Best Game, so "Hmm-mm-mmm (pleased-with-self-face)" lol

The reason I made that comparison is to show what Elite lacks.
Elite has no loot mechanics, except for the USS, which we all love and/or hate. The update made it somewhat more bearable, before that it was just a mess: Fly in serpentines, 6000ls above the orbital plane, and it might spawn that USS for you that you need.
Loot mechanics is what keeps players playing, engaged, interested. You all want that Best module for your ship! What if that best module cannot be bought? Or it has a limited supply? No shopping trip to Shinrata Dhezra to buy all you need! You got a fat wallet, but that fat wallet cannot buy what you need. That Huge Railgun only drops from Elite Anacondas! And even then you have to take it to an engineer to have it fitted! And he will ask you a few favours before doing so.

There is gameplay! There is content!
For those out in the black, it wouldn't change a thing. Exploration remains as is, there might be improvements there to be done too, but I can't/won't do it all by myself.
But for those who don't enjoy scanning planets on end, it would be a big game changer.
You might get lucky to find that Huge Rail gun from above at a shop - who knows! worth checking the shop every time. But it might just be a stock one. The one that dropped might have some unique modifications on it. Less power draw, quicker reload, less heat generated! Hell I know I'd be flying much more than I do now if I know there is something like that out there.
But I know there isn't.

That Elite Anaconda might drop some G5 mats, it might not, either way, it doesn't matter anyway, because my G5 storage is full. And my ships are already engineered. My wallet is buldging with billions, all there is left to do is to stare out the window into the dark, thinking about what could be out there, but isn't.

 

[znôrt]

Dude, you just compared Elite Dangerous to World of Warcraft. They're so-- It's just so-- You might as well compare it to Super Mario Brothers 2. If we were all driving around on a lunar surface, collecting missions from "!" and giving boar meats to "?"

(cough) engineers?

i agree that ed and wow are different genres and play on different tropes, but the mechanics are actually not that different. ed is a wowified galaxy, and if you compare pure game mechanics design, wow is miles ahead. it may have degenerated into an extreme version of the basic grind-reward loop (let's face it, that's what sells best) but the elements for player generated gameplay are still there.

That's because tabletop roleplaying games and Elite dangerous are dynamic worlds with systems. Boardgames and World of Warcraft are 2 dimensional by comparison and therefore much easier to release expansion content for.

i think that difference is not really objective, but the way you look at them. in the end both are closed systems, and anything can have a meta game if you mean that.

e.g. isn't pp essentially a board game based on the very same and simple grind mechanics passed through a convoluted state machine? extending that content is not specially difficult. doing it well is, it can get complex if the system is complex, but i don't see it being fundamentally different. dynamism in ed's universe? you must be referring to randomly generated faction labels switching places in systems ... or the hand of god.

then again i'm not a game designer

 

[Ipecac]

Fair enough.

 

[[VR] Goooost]

The LEP was a mistake to even offer. I remember when I first saw gameplay for elite dangerous I wanted to buy it, so I went to the site and interpreted it all wrong. I saw the LEP price and thought, "dear lord this game is expensive" and I reluctantly closed the window. Didnt even consider buying it until it came out on xbox and it was WAY cheaper. I wonder if there are others like me, who thought that to get the whole game you'd have to go into debt so lost interest.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Many have bought the LEP to support Frontier in the game development and ensure sustainability.

And also because they have a past with the Elite series since 1984. It's a bit like supporting financially a family member or a friend.

 

[NW3]

I had an opportunity to buy the LEP, but declined it. I had only played ED for short while and wasn't sure if I really liked it. 2000+ hours later, I would buy the LEP, were it ever to be offered again.

 

[Riverside]

I had an opportunity to buy the LEP, but declined it. I had only played ED for short while and wasn't sure if I really liked it. 2000+ hours later, I would buy the LEP, were it ever to be offered again.

How much would you pay?

Could you not just buy cosmetics if you want to give them some more money?

 

[NW3]

Which I have done, on numerous occasions. I'm not sure what my upper limit would be. If it's too outrageous, I'd again be forced to pass (again).

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

From looking back at archival footage, what they seemed to be selling was the LEP was a thank you bonus for backers, probably implying some sort of future discount.

Not sure what they were thinking when it was offered again at a significantly increased price. That was probably just filling consumer demand.

It might be more healthy to look at these as just product offerings. Frontiers development roadmap is something completely separate....