Lifetime pass payback time

[SkipRat]

Like many here, I've got a lifetime pass. Some people via kickstarter, some paid into. When I jumped in with a lifetime pass, Horizons was for the future but it was known that season 2 would be in the £30-40 range. I thought that with a 10 year plan, maybe 5 seasons (or at least major updates such as Horizons), then it would, in the end, be worth it. I was kind of hoping for something as revolutionary as horizons for S3, 4 etc, but it seems like FD are running out of steam for major gameplay changes.

With a season 3 looking less likely and FD moving to a more random DLC method of delivery, do any of you other paid lifetime pass holders think that you'll get your monies worth from it in the end, or do you feel a little conned by the way things appear to be moving? I've not decided where on the side of the fence I lie at the moment.... (I guess it depends on S3 / 4 or whatever replaces the season idea)

Fdev are scared to make the changes the game needs in order to make the game Elite needs to be, in case the whiny little cry baby children that FDez have been pandering too for far too long, start crying and throwing their teddies out the pram.... Grown adults as well you know...

Like, you can only rank with one faction, so pick your side... Just you look at all the tea being spat out, dummies being thrown, jelly bellies shaking with all the vigour of a 10.9 on the Richter scale earth quake at the thought of having a choice that has consequences...

Sad and pathetic and it is ruining this game at an alarming rate, because is FDev are trying to implement stuff without upsetting these fragile humans who will suffer an emotion break down if their precious pathetic entitled attitudes that they be pandered too as they are more important than anyone else gets threatened.

So yeah, I have feeled conned... I brought in to game that was going to bring back some sense, consequences, grit, but ended up with a jigsaw with a 100 pieces and none of the fit, because it ended up being nothing more than a pandering pvp meta fest with zero consequences and zero Elite.... I mean, when do you actually feel the lore in game? Piracy is reduced to to firing limpets and getting a little bounty... the best explorer ships are not explorer ships... FDL's are deep space murder machines... Engineers is pathetic (when would an Imperial engineer upgrade a Fed support? )...

Utter con and if it was possible, I would demand my money back.

 

[rootsrat]

Sorry, to clarify i meant items such as decals/ suits and paintjobs.

I was not referring to DLC in terms of expansions.

But the free expansion (in the form of "Seasons" so far and whatever the new model will be) is exactly what you will be getting as owner of the LEP. I am a Premium Beta 2 backer and I got LEP as part of £100 package, when I purchased Elite. Cosmetic items were never part of the deal. I think it was pretty clear from the description of what LEP is. We will get all the future expansions (Seasons, big content patches, whatever you want to call it) for free. Forever. Everyone else will have to pay for them. Don't you think that's a pretty sweet deal already? I think it's cheeky to expect FDEV to give us even more for free.

Undoubtedly, they are going to fulfill their part of the deal, as they are supposed to. I can't imagine them going "Right, the deal was that you're getting all the expansions for free, but actually, sorry guys, we are going to start charging you for them now" - that would be a PR disaster for them and I can't imagine many people would accept that.

Just to clarify, as a moderator, I am not an FDEV employee - I am a regular player just like everyone else, so this is not some insider knowledge, it's just my common sense.

 

[Jezzah]

For my money I feel I got value (been here since alpha day one). But when I read the Design Decision Forum it's a shame because a lot of the great stuff there never made it into the game (yet). So much feels placeholder even entire professions like exploring and piracy and whole chunks of others like trading and missions.

But overall it's been a good few years and I can't say I didn't get any value.

For me the biggest problem is trying the balance the game to suit too many different viewpoints. The open player, the solo player, the pve player, the pvp player. This game struggles to find its niche a bit with trying to please everyone and I think it affects the pace of content and featuring we see getting into the game.

 

[Crank Larson]

I am also worried about the LTP situation, at this stage of the games development it has not been worthwhile, would have been cheaper to just the the Horizons season pass as outside of that there has been nothing in addition for LTP holders.

Fdev should give us some dlc for free for the amount of money we have contributed tothe devolopment of this game

You do get every DLC for free if you have the lifetime pass. However, the DLC does have to be available to get it, so right now you are right that it would be cheaper to buy both the game and Horizons.

Even if you don't think you have your money's worth so far, the whole point is that it is "lifetime". The only time you can categorically say whether it was worth it or not, is at the end of life of the game. Obviously if you are worried that the game is anywhere near that point, then I don't think there is anything I can say that will help.

 

[hems303]

bought the lifetime pass and promptly returned it after the announcement that planetary landings won't come to macs. haven't looked back since

Hi Commander ozrix84
I am a PC player but would really like to know why planetary landings is not coming to Mac? Seems a bit unfair to release just part of ED.... sorry for your loss ... is it technical reason?

 

[MissMeYet]

Hi Commander ozrix84
I am a PC player but would really like to know why planetary landings is not coming to Mac? Seems a bit unfair to release just part of ED.... sorry for your loss ... is it technical reason?

"The State of Mac Gaming": Good read...

https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/07/the-state-of-mac-gaming/

 

[Lobstris]

Do I believe there's a mapped out '10-year plan' beyond what's written on a napkin somewhere? - Heck no. Do I believe E: D will reach its potential? - Based on past evidence, Heck no. Do I believe Frontier will still be supporting Elite with new content releases in a couple of years? - Hmmm. Jury's out. Do I believe that 'space legs' or 'atmos landings on Earth-likes' will appear? - Hmmm. Jury's out but I *really* want to believe in the latter.

Do I believe it's all been worth it? - Yes. Do I believe I've got my money's worth? - Heck yes. Am I looking forward to 2.4 and 3.x? - Heck yes. Is E: D unique in the modern firmament of gaming? - Heck yes.

 

[atomic7431]

for me the payback was when i dropped £200 on the Alpha, i enjoyed the experience all that time ago and after a break im enjoying the game again.

Its more about enjoyment rather than when it pays back surely?

you buy something because you want/like it.

 

[lenna]

... it's just my common sense.

I totally agree, I think the underlying problem stems from the perception that a season would roughly equate to 1 years content and while this has never been stated it is the commonly accepted interpretation of the term season - Especially since the content planned for the Horizons season has never been explicitly specified in any detail. This perception has led to some feeling misled (whether justified or not) over the delivery time of paid for development.

In my view, I think those of us with the LEP have no real cause for complaint although I can understand any concerns about how long it will be before feature development is (at least technically) complete.

 

[Zeeman]

I think that Frontier's decision to move away from the "Seasons" terminology simply reflects the fact that is has become obvious that major releases are not going to be released at regular annual intervals. The original plan, I think, was to release a new major version around Christmas time each year.

Look at the release dates:

Elite Dangerous 1.0 - December 16, 2014
Elite Dangerous 2.0 "Horizons" - December 15, 2015

For various reasons version 2.1 "Engineers" was delayed for several months. That delay pushed the rest of the development cycle out so that releasing version 3.0 in December of 2016 was simply an impossibility.

"Lifetime Pass" remains precisely that. We get all future updates regardless of if they are called "Seasons" or "DLCs" or whatever other terminology Frontier decides to label future content.

This is my understanding, and I have not seen any indication from FD that indicates otherwise.

Honestly, I'm looking forward to the "meat and bones" updates that appear planned for following 2.4. Seems FD are finally going to work on a bunch of stuff that is very barebones, and I think the quality of life updates are something we'll all enjoy that far more than yet another headline feature.



Z...

 

[Calebe]

Lifetime Expansion Pass. Not Lifetime Season Pass, but expansion. So all expansions for the life of the game, End of story. You get any and every expansion, DLC (download content), call it what you will, you get them all for the price of the Lifetime Expansion Pass. Lifetime means something, expansion means something, and it doesn't mean only seasons. The word Lifetime means a lot and Michael Brooks himself said they sold it way to cheaply in the beginning. He knew what Lifetime means, we all know what it means. So why wonder if FD is going to refactor, (I wonder where I got that word from), for the word to suddenly mean something besides what we all know it means, the life of the product.
.
Calebe

 

[CMDRhpid]

Forum rule 11

11) You are one person; you are allowed one forum account.

Additional accounts will result in all additional accounts to be terminated.

 

[Kubicide]

Lifetime Expansion Pass. Not Lifetime Season Pass, but expansion. So all expansions for the life of the game, End of story. You get any and every expansion, DLC (download content), call it what you will, you get them all for the price of the Lifetime Expansion Pass. Lifetime means something, expansion means something, and it doesn't mean only seasons. The word Lifetime means a lot and Michael Brooks himself said they sold it way to cheaply in the beginning. He knew what Lifetime means, we all know what it means. So why wonder if FD is going to refactor, (I wonder where I got that word from), for the word to suddenly mean something besides what we all know it means, the life of the product.
.
Calebe

Do you have a link to where MB made this statement? Don't recall seeing anything about this ever and the forums would have certainly discussed it if it was true. And I'd say MB is totally wrong (unless he's referring to KS) and that LEP buyer's got ripped off considering what's been delivered so far.

Looking at the costs which I believe is the OP's intention here, LEP holders still haven't 'broken even' when considering the cost of the LEP pass (£120) versus the cost of the individual releases (~£80) for the two releases that have been made so far with the original game and Horizon's. There needs to be one more £40 valued release (a third release) for LEP folks to basically equal what other individuals have paid. A 4th release is where LEP folks get ahead with buying into a bargain. Good luck with that BTW! So LEP holders have overspent at the moment; they've overpaid compared to buying the two separately at launch prices.

So yeah, if I was an LEP holder I'd be upset right now. Glad I didn't buy one.

 

[rootsrat]

Forum rule 11

11) You are one person; you are allowed one forum account.

Additional accounts will result in all additional accounts to be terminated.

I think it is you that is mistaken. I don't need to check anything, because I know what I've paid for. Just for your benefit though, here:

https://support.frontier.co.uk/kb/faq.php?id=158

And before you start nitpicking and interpret every single word your own way - I'm not really interested in discussing this with you, so may as well save some time and don't bother. You're free to have an opinion of your own on the subject of course

 

[Kaocraft]

Lifetime Expansion Pass. Not Lifetime Season Pass, but expansion. So all expansions for the life of the game, End of story. You get any and every expansion, DLC (download content), call it what you will, you get them all for the price of the Lifetime Expansion Pass. Lifetime means something, expansion means something, and it doesn't mean only seasons. The word Lifetime means a lot and Michael Brooks himself said they sold it way to cheaply in the beginning. He knew what Lifetime means, we all know what it means. So why wonder if FD is going to refactor, (I wonder where I got that word from), for the word to suddenly mean something besides what we all know it means, the life of the product.
.
Calebe

From Frontier Support:
"The Lifetime Expansion Pass (LEP) is the virtual pass that grants players access to all future seasons of Elite Dangerous content released over the coming years, along with any Beta server test phases."


question is: if they stop calling them "seasons," does that give them an out?

 

[Lobstris]

Looking at the costs which I believe is the OP's intention here, LEP holders still haven't 'broken even' when considering the cost of the LEP pass (£120) versus the cost of the individual releases (~£80)

That's the gamble though, the choice we all took and the calculus we made. Do you go for a LEP? - and run the risk of the company folding right after release, and you getting little for your money. Or do you wait for a complete product to be discounted in 5-years time on Steam, at the other extreme?

Heck, Some of us threw a lot more money at Frontier just to get Elite IV made - 'cus... well... er... "--- ELITE ---" !!!

Oh, about the Brookes quote that the LEP was to cheap, I'm 99% sure he did say that, but it was a) quite some time ago now, b) partly in the context of a 'throwaway' joke line (or at least that's how I remember reading it), and c) at a point in time when I'm sure everyone was envisaging a long future for the game.

From Frontier Support:
"The Lifetime Expansion Pass (LEP) is the virtual pass that grants players access to all future seasons of Elite Dangerous content released over the coming years, along with any Beta server test phases."


question is: if they stop calling them "seasons," does that give them an out?

I really don't think they would back out from honouring the LEP. The fallout would be as bad, if not worse, than SinglePlayerGate™. In the paraphrased words of our Prime Minister - "Lifetime means Liftetime"... hmmm... er... bad example.

 

[CMDRhpid]

Forum rule 11

11) You are one person; you are allowed one forum account.

Additional accounts will result in all additional accounts to be terminated.

 

[Lobstris]

Forum rule 11

11) You are one person; you are allowed one forum account.

Additional accounts will result in all additional accounts to be terminated.

I think the problem/issue was more stated along the lines of "we've found it difficult to get people to part with cash for 'unseen' products, especially if those products get perceived as 'unfinished' at release, we'd rather finish off complete chunks of content and then offer them as 'stand-alone' commercial DLC, so people know what they are getting". But then I might be reading what too much into what was actually said versus my recollection.

 

[Lobstris]

Forum rule 11

11) You are one person; you are allowed one forum account.

Additional accounts will result in all additional accounts to be terminated.

If there aren't enough people left still playing the game with LEP/paid-for-beta access, and you specifically want to stress test the game, is it not better for all to open up the beta?

*Edit* Ach! Forum fail! I thought this would merge with the last post. Apologies!

 

[OnePercent]

I'll answer your question when I begin flying in a gas giants atmosphere.