I was just basing that on the various mentions I've seen on here of an update which saw a pile of hackers banned.
Unless you mean that there are undetected private hacks floating around. But that's the same situation as in any game.
Logging During Combat Punishment [Proposal]
- Thread starter MONTItheRed
- Start date
I was just basing that on the various mentions I've seen on here of an update which saw a pile of hackers banned.
Unless you mean that there are undetected private hacks floating around. But that's the same situation as in any game.
So Overwatch's reaction to disconnecting is absolutely nothing at all like a "zero tolerance" policy towards combat logging involving permanent bans.
Ealready does permanent bans for hacking.
I put combat logging in ED on the same level as using a triggerbot in Overwatch, based on their impact on the game for other players.
Disconnecting from a match doesn't negatively impact your opponent and only hurts you, but using a trigger bot negatively affects your opponent(s) and ruins the experience of the game for them. Likewise, combat logging negatively affects your opponent and ruins the experience of the game.
As such, I believe the punishment Blizzard imposes for trigger botting should be the same for combat logging in ED. Permanent bans.
IMHO, it's really the only way to get rid of people who don't want to play according to the rules.
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Eh, if we're being that subjective then I think abusing speed limits around stations with suicide eagles or SLFs is on the same level as walling and should attract the same penalty. It obviously negatively impacts the victim and ruins their game experience.
Neither of us are going to get what we want as long as we're redefining terms to suit our own points of view. And we certainly can't support it by pointing to other games which handle the actual thing we're talking about much more leniently.
Speeding is not against the rules though so that's not an apt comparison. If someone is using speeding solely for griefing players, this can be reported to FDev and they may or may not do something about it because they might see it as legit gameplay ( I wouldn't agree with that ruling, btw ). No rules are technically being broken. This is *not* the case with combat logging.
The purposes of disconnecting from a match and combat logging are the same, ie: leaving combat, but they aren't same the thing. What *is* the same in ED as disconnecting in Overwatch is logging out using the menu and waiting the 15 seconds ( or whatever it is ); a legitimate exit strategy, one Frontier endorses.
So I'm not redefining anything. Trigger bots are cheating. Combat logging is cheating. They need the same punishment, and Blizzard has the right of it.
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Ah, I was basing mine on the hacker who got like a 1 week ban then he was back on ED even though there was video and stuff.
Except... you aren't comparing cheaters (cos, you know, it's also possible to actually CHAET in ED and, due to the P2P nature and no server oversight, have infinite shields / ammo / etc). While they might definitely exist in ED, the nature of the game means they aren't really affecting the game as much as those cheaters in Overwatch, so it's a far smaller problem (there's also far less of these people, percentage wise). I'm also not entirely sure what the penalties for actual cheaters in ED are. I'd wager those who get caught (recorded, verified) might get a ban?
Anyway, what you're actually trying to compare are "leavers" - people who "leave" ED or Overwatch when they shouldn't. And when you realise that's what you're comparing then your comparison no longer makes sense. Leavers in Overwatch DO get the proverbial slap on the wrist (even in competitive, where the penalty is harshest, it's a temporary ban from competitive only).
So, again... do you really want to compare ED to Overwatch? Your only argument is based solely on semantics - "Frontier called combat logging a cheat, so everyone doing that is a cheater!" Except, no, they're "exploiters" at worst (and even then I'm not so sure). You know - just because someone decides to call a "banana" a "yellow cigar" doesn't mean you can start smoking bananas.
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Except... you aren't comparing cheaters (cos, you know, it's also possible to actually CHAET in ED and, due to the P2P nature and no server oversight, have infinite shields / ammo / etc). While they might definitely exist in ED, the nature of the game means they aren't really affecting the game as much as those cheaters in Overwatch, so it's a far smaller problem (there's also far less of these people, percentage wise). I'm also not entirely sure what the penalties for actual cheaters in ED are. I'd wager those who get caught (recorded, verified) might get a ban?
Anyway, what you're actually trying to compare are "leavers" - people who "leave" ED or Overwatch when they shouldn't. And when you realise that's what you're comparing then your comparison no longer makes sense. Leavers in Overwatch DO get the proverbial slap on the wrist (even in competitive, where the penalty is harshest, it's a temporary ban from competitive only).
So, again... do you really want to compare ED to Overwatch? Your only argument is based solely on semantics - "Frontier called combat logging a cheat, so everyone doing that is a cheater!" Except, no, they're "exploiters" at worst (and even then I'm not so sure). You know - just because someone decides to call a "banana" a "yellow cigar" doesn't mean you can start smoking bananas.
The players who cheat in ED (sans combat logging) get a permanent ban (eventually), AFAIK.
I disagree, "leavers" are different from combat loggers. A "leaver" is someone who quits ED whilst in combat using the main menu, which is allowed. A combat logger is someone who bypasses that menu completely; thereby saving themselves a rebuy screen and depriving their attacker of his hard-earned bounty/loot - i.e.: giving themselves an unfair advantage of their attacker.
Killing the ED process in TaskMan is not the same thing as quitting ED from the main menu. I'm comparing the act of combat logging against the act of using a triggerbot.
Whether I call it cheat, or you call it an exploit .. they're are the same thing. Exploiting is just another way of cheating.
But if you don't consider combat logging to be an act of cheating ("act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage"), is there any use discussing this further? We'll just keep going around in circles, probably talking over each other, reiterating what we've been saying other comments.
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I don't think anyone would get a permanent ban from Blizzard for killing "overwatch.exe" via the Task Manager.
All I can add is that is that I think I read somewhere that banana smoke is hazardous to ones health, so at least use a filter...
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The appropriate reply in this context is actually 'get better at the game'; all the tools are there, no one is breaking rules by attacking you... if you really feel that you can't do anything and it bothers you to such an extent then you probably should just stay in Solo or Groups away from the general internet-public.
found another git gud reply.
Have you considered the fact that there are players out there who want social interaction but don't want PvP? While mobius is a step in the right direction, it isn't a permanent fix (private group roster limits, no coded support from fdev [just look at the recent SDC incursion], the fact that the only way to learn about mobius is via the forums and that 10-20% of all players of this game ever find the forums, etc.). There is a need for something to change. It can be a PvE flag as an option for open mode (with caveats to prevent abuse). An Open PvE mode would work too. Or really crack down on player killers. I mean if a CMDR is destroyed for no reason (not wanted, not powerplay, not what have you), then the offending player gets to cover the cost of the rebuy for the ship and any cargo. If the offending player can't pay, they get to declare bankruptcy and start in a loaned sidewinder with 1000 credits again. For consensual PvP encounters, then both ships involved can simply turn the report crimes function off. Naturally this function would need some sort of caveat to prevent abuse, but I think 90 second timer for when it goes from off to on would be more than enough. This way, the psycho player killers actually get punished, their victims don't get penalized, and real deal PvPers can go about their business. Player pirates will have to take care to not destroy the ship they want to rob, something that they should probably be doing anyway. Figure out ways to disable a ship, pop open cargo hatches, and/or find ways to make hatch breakers work for you. Better yet, just try simple communication. You might be surprised at how people will react once they see you are willing to talk with them.
Completely unreasonable.
Going further: I don't see looking at Blizzard for good examples of how to do things as very wise. Blizzard is good at making games look pretty with good music, and then marketing the hell out of it, but not much else.
Also seems silly, comparing aspects of a casual MMO shoot-em-up to usually isolated incidents of 1v1 PvP aggression inside the virtual galaxy of Elite Dangerous.
Additionally, you brush anything you see as rule-breaking as flat-out cheating, but at the same time seem to try to justify the past events of high-speed griefing attacks and other exploits that players abuse to grief other people.
I think you should sit and rethink all of these things.
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Not to me, but you're entitled to your opinion. As I am to mine.
You cheat you get banned. Seems like a good example to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not sure of the relevance here. Cheating is cheating.
Combat logging is flat-out cheating. There's literally no two-ways about this. And I didn't try to justify anything, I didn't even know the past events of high-speed griefing were a thing, infact, I said if it's an issue report it and Frontier will look at it - not sure how that's justifying it, but okay. Nevertheless, that's not cheating, it's not acceptable sure, but it's certainly not cheating.
Thanks for your suggestion, but no thanks. I know where I stand on the matter.
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Completely permabanning people for disconnecting from the game is anything but being respectful of other's opinions.
Incorrect. Not only is it not flat-out cheating, compared with the likes of hacks and fully automated macros; nobody - including Frontier - has the means of clearly & reliably making an unquestionable distinction between normal (usually unfortunate) disconnections and 'combat logging' incidients.
I wonder if you would be so keen to go for permabans for cheating if abuse of the Sothis/Ceos exploit was considered "flat-out cheating", too....?
By your own definition of exploits "definitely" being "cheats", what you just said is a direct contradiction of your own logic.
And back to what I lead in with about "unreasonable".
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raeat
Banned
And this thread is precisely why FDev should not even be considering treating CLogging as a punishable offence.
Punishment implies policing. Policing costs man-hours better spent working on the game.
Punishment just leads to endless squabbles about what counts as cheating and what punishments should be meted out.
Once you give in to the punishment mentality, these will be never ending disputes.
Don't get caught in this trap, FDev. Just award the "winning" pilot the award for the win and be done with it.
Punishment implies policing. Policing costs man-hours better spent working on the game.
Punishment just leads to endless squabbles about what counts as cheating and what punishments should be meted out.
Once you give in to the punishment mentality, these will be never ending disputes.
Don't get caught in this trap, FDev. Just award the "winning" pilot the award for the win and be done with it.
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Exactly and it's mostly those types of miscreants that complain about it. If you're part of a wing of 4 ganking/griefing 1 guy in a clean ship and he c/logs, suck it up. The world didn't end.
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I'm a PvE focused pilot - I don't do PvP at all. But even I see that there ARE groups of dedicated PvPers who are interested in fighting each other... and if that fails they go after the gankers as well. But then said gankers start to use CL when they are faced with superior force...
Also very true. They can dish it out but rarely will they take it, at least not to the death. Some run when their shields go down.
Similar psychology to the bully isn't it ?
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The simplest solution would be to prevent exiting the game at all during combat or increasing the combat logout time so that you are probably going to die if you do not stay and fight. BUt it seems to me if the game allows you to do this (log out) it is not illegal???? (Just frustrating)
dude, that is the graceful exit log out. It is 100% legal and FDev approved. You can't stop a task kill (you know, opening a task manager and then hitting end task). You also can't stop someone from unplugging their modem or doing anything else to forcefully end the connection. Do you even internet?