Fortunately, now I know what not to do
Yeah I always find that the easy part of any project, you just start it and sometimes find out right away, but often after a long way in and think....rats, wish I knew about this sooner?
Long Distance from Sol Attempt
- Thread starter ENCHANTMEN
- Start date
Yeah I always find that the easy part of any project, you just start it and sometimes find out right away, but often after a long way in and think....rats, wish I knew about this sooner?
What a great endeavor! That surely deserves a full double Rimmer!
Happy new year! I celebrated the start of 3308 by synchronizing it with an ancient work of popular media.
Everyone arrived at the refueling point without issue, and I performed another refueling. This time, I kept an eye on EDDiscovery after COVAS betrayed me last time.
However, I've run into a conundrum: After refueling, Moe still has 137 tons of fuel and 145 limpets (cargo and synthesis materials). I stopped at the exact time Moe's fuel level reached the amount I calculated. That means that one of two things have occurred: either my math is wrong somewhere, or EDDiscovery has joined forces with COVAS and is also plotting against me. Since my math couldn't possibly be wrong, I have no choice to accept that my ship computer has gone rogue.
I've armed myself so I can shoot it when it makes the first move. Phil and I will take shifts so it doesn't kill us in our sleep.
The good news, though, is that this means I can get a little bit further than I thought for this stop. According to my math I can go about 4ly and then transfer 69T of fuel to top up Larry and the Border. Nice.
[Edit: redid my math, it's more like 6ly and 100T]
Everyone arrived at the refueling point without issue, and I performed another refueling. This time, I kept an eye on EDDiscovery after COVAS betrayed me last time.
However, I've run into a conundrum: After refueling, Moe still has 137 tons of fuel and 145 limpets (cargo and synthesis materials). I stopped at the exact time Moe's fuel level reached the amount I calculated. That means that one of two things have occurred: either my math is wrong somewhere, or EDDiscovery has joined forces with COVAS and is also plotting against me. Since my math couldn't possibly be wrong, I have no choice to accept that my ship computer has gone rogue.
I've armed myself so I can shoot it when it makes the first move. Phil and I will take shifts so it doesn't kill us in our sleep.
The good news, though, is that this means I can get a little bit further than I thought for this stop. According to my math I can go about 4ly and then transfer 69T of fuel to top up Larry and the Border. Nice.
[Edit: redid my math, it's more like 6ly and 100T]
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Arrived at stop #2.5 and transferred over fuel. It's odd that the amount was off.
I've also added the limpet controller to the list of computers planning to kill me. After all, how else can you explain this atrocious trajectory?
Also, this time the limpets formed a snake instead of a cluster. Weird.
I took yet another fancy looking action screenshot, then headed back out into the absolutely nothing.
I'm at 55.4ly right now. Next stop should be about 12 days and 66.9ly, which would bring the total distance to 122.3. See you then!
I've also added the limpet controller to the list of computers planning to kill me. After all, how else can you explain this atrocious trajectory?
Also, this time the limpets formed a snake instead of a cluster. Weird.
I took yet another fancy looking action screenshot, then headed back out into the absolutely nothing.
I'm at 55.4ly right now. Next stop should be about 12 days and 66.9ly, which would bring the total distance to 122.3. See you then!
Awesome. I keep my fingers crossed. Actually I thiought that you've finished your expedition waaay ago, didn't think it takes so long. Keep on
I should have, only I procrastinated starting for so long that I completely forgot about it. Had I started when I first planned, I'd be done by nowAwesome. I keep my fingers crossed. Actually I thiought that you've finished your expedition waaay ago, didn't think it takes so long. Keep on
Thanks, this is one of the dumbest things I've ever done! I'm quite proud of it
This expedition reminds me of this:
en.wikipedia.org
Operation Black Buck - Wikipedia
Maybe someone mentioned it already: I might have a little trick for you, that could help you reduce the deviations from the course: when you align your ship towards the destination, switch to FSS and see how precisely you are aligned. You will not be able to maneuver your ship while in FSS, but it will give you a much finer reading of your heading and allow you to do fine adjustments to your alignment once you leave FSS.
Every ton of fuel saved counts...
Every ton of fuel saved counts...
Yes, pretty much exactly like thatThis expedition reminds me of this:
Operation Black Buck - Wikipedia
Ooh, didn't know that. I'll give it a look when I get the chance. Sounds better than my current method of squinting really hard at the navballMaybe someone mentioned it already: I might have a little trick for you, that could help you reduce the deviations from the course: when you align your ship towards the destination, switch to FSS and see how precisely you are aligned. You will not be able to maneuver your ship while in FSS, but it will give you a much finer reading of your heading and allow you to do fine adjustments to your alignment once you leave FSS.
Every ton of fuel saved counts...
I passed an important milestone: 69ly from the system. Nice.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any way to use FSS to control orientation. I did discover, however, that if I enable wing beacon on one ship and enable sensors on the other, I am able to target the other ship.
I'm thinking I'll try to take advantage of this by having Larry log out and let the Border go on ahead about 8ly or so. That way I can briefly flick the sensors on to check its orientation.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any way to use FSS to control orientation. I did discover, however, that if I enable wing beacon on one ship and enable sensors on the other, I am able to target the other ship.
I'm thinking I'll try to take advantage of this by having Larry log out and let the Border go on ahead about 8ly or so. That way I can briefly flick the sensors on to check its orientation.
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Maybe I misunderstood how you align your ships.
My thoughts were: you select some star as a navigation point for all your ships. Then you try to align your reticule in that direction. But because the reticule is quite bulky and usually covers the star with some quite big overlap, your difficulty is to know where exactly is your ship heading within that margin. Below is my simple drawing, excuse the simplicity and clumsiness...
So here is your reticule and a star.
When you are trying to align your ship, the following can happen. Notice how the star is not in the middle, but you cannot see that, because the star would be normally covered with that yellow rectangle:
In this scenario, when you switch to FSS, this is what you would see:
SO after you leave the FSS (because you cannot maneuver your ship while in FSS), you can slightly orientate your ship to the left and up. Then go to FSS again, until you see this:
I hope it makes sense.
Of course, I was suggesting this without knowing your actual procedure of aligning your ships. Maybe the way you do it is so different, that you cannot actually do this...
Unfortunately I don't think that will work; I don't think there's a way to zoom in on a random point in FSS (i.e. where there isn't a planet or signal source). If you could, then centering on a star might be a possibility, but unfortunately there aren't any stars in that directionMaybe I misunderstood how you align your ships.
My thoughts were: you select some star as a navigation point for all your ships. Then you try to align your reticule in that direction. But because the reticule is quite bulky and usually covers the star with some quite big overlap, your difficulty is to know where exactly is your ship heading within that margin. Below is my simple drawing, excuse the simplicity and clumsiness...
So here is your reticule and a star.
View attachment 284892
When you are trying to align your ship, the following can happen. Notice how the star is not in the middle, but you cannot see that, because the star would be normally covered with that yellow rectangle:
View attachment 284893
In this scenario, when you switch to FSS, this is what you would see:
View attachment 284894
SO after you leave the FSS (because you cannot maneuver your ship while in FSS), you can slightly orientate your ship to the left and up. Then go to FSS again, until you see this:
View attachment 284895
I hope it makes sense.
Of course, I was suggesting this without knowing your actual procedure of aligning your ships. Maybe the way you do it is so different, that you cannot actually do this...
What I've been using is the navball next to your minimap. At the start I used Sol/Alpha Centauri; but this far away I can target the central star of the Ishum's Reach system instead so that I can see how far I've gone. It will show an empty circle in the opposite direction to your target, so I can just squint and center that circle as best I can.
Here's what that looks like in all its 800x600px glory:
After giving about half a day to run, the Border is now 7ly ahead of Larry, which means I can use the wing beacon to target it! I can just make little corrections every now and then to keep it on track.
This is an extremely convenient method to use, and one which would have been great to know when I had to keep track of FOUR SHIPS.
Something I forgot about until just now: the way I know when to make a refueling stop is when the tanker reaches a specific fuel level (ideally such that it has exactly as many limpets as it does fuel, to minimize waste). However, because the Border has gone on ahead, it will be in the wrong place when the tanker reaches the critical fuel level. I could let Larry catch up and then have it go on ahead, but I instead decided to calculate how much fuel the Border would have at that time and go by its fuel amount instead.
I'll be stopping when the Border's fuel reaches about 479 tons, which will be in roughly 7 days and 21 hours if there is no downtime. I should be at about 115ly by then.
This is an extremely convenient method to use, and one which would have been great to know when I had to keep track of FOUR SHIPS.
Something I forgot about until just now: the way I know when to make a refueling stop is when the tanker reaches a specific fuel level (ideally such that it has exactly as many limpets as it does fuel, to minimize waste). However, because the Border has gone on ahead, it will be in the wrong place when the tanker reaches the critical fuel level. I could let Larry catch up and then have it go on ahead, but I instead decided to calculate how much fuel the Border would have at that time and go by its fuel amount instead.
I'll be stopping when the Border's fuel reaches about 479 tons, which will be in roughly 7 days and 21 hours if there is no downtime. I should be at about 115ly by then.
Unfortunately I don't think that will work; I don't think there's a way to zoom in on a random point in FSS (i.e. where there isn't a planet or signal source). If you could, then centering on a star might be a possibility, but unfortunately there aren't any stars in that direction
What I've been using is the navball next to your minimap. At the start I used Sol/Alpha Centauri; but this far away I can target the central star of the Ishum's Reach system instead so that I can see how far I've gone. It will show an empty circle in the opposite direction to your target, so I can just squint and center that circle as best I can.
Here's what that looks like in all its 800x600px glory:
That explains it... Thank you and sorry for wasting your time. I didn't know there are no stars in the direction of your travel...
Hey, it was worth a shotThat explains it... Thank you and sorry for wasting your time. I didn't know there are no stars in the direction of your travel...
WOO TRIPLE DIGITS BABY LET'S GO
Aside from that, I have absolutely nothing else to report. I have 4 days until the next refueling.
It's, uh, a bit dull out here, not gonna lie.
Aside from that, I have absolutely nothing else to report. I have 4 days until the next refueling.
It's, uh, a bit dull out here, not gonna lie.
Well, I've got good news and bad news.
Good news: My ship is more efficient than the fuel display claims!
Bad news: The fuel display is inaccurate. Therefore it is in on the conspiracy and is also trying to murder me along with COVAS and EDDiscovery!
I expected to reach 115ly before it was time for the next refueling. I'm at 120ly and have 50 tons of fuel left before it's time to refuel. Something's fishy here. It can't simply be rounding error; that would only give me an extra 0.6ly at most. It can't be EDDiscovery getting the fuel level wrong in this case since I completely topped up both ships on the last refueling stop, and I can visually inspect the fuel level bar and see that the percentage is wrong. I can only conclude that the fuel usage readout given by the UI is inaccurate by a small margin.
While this is cool since I get more range than predicted, it's also a shame since I optimized the limpet to fuel ratios of each tanker based off of the listed fuel usage rate, which means it will probably be off.
In an abundance of caution, I have decided to perform the refueling early. If there's fuel left over, I'll do a second mini-refueling like last time. For now, though, the Endurance Border has popped out of supercruise and is going on low power to act as a beacon while Larry catches up. I'll keep it logged out except for minor course corrections now and then.
In the meantime, I think I'm going to do an experiment with one of the alts to measure the true fuel usage rate.
Good news: My ship is more efficient than the fuel display claims!
Bad news: The fuel display is inaccurate. Therefore it is in on the conspiracy and is also trying to murder me along with COVAS and EDDiscovery!
I expected to reach 115ly before it was time for the next refueling. I'm at 120ly and have 50 tons of fuel left before it's time to refuel. Something's fishy here. It can't simply be rounding error; that would only give me an extra 0.6ly at most. It can't be EDDiscovery getting the fuel level wrong in this case since I completely topped up both ships on the last refueling stop, and I can visually inspect the fuel level bar and see that the percentage is wrong. I can only conclude that the fuel usage readout given by the UI is inaccurate by a small margin.
While this is cool since I get more range than predicted, it's also a shame since I optimized the limpet to fuel ratios of each tanker based off of the listed fuel usage rate, which means it will probably be off.
In an abundance of caution, I have decided to perform the refueling early. If there's fuel left over, I'll do a second mini-refueling like last time. For now, though, the Endurance Border has popped out of supercruise and is going on low power to act as a beacon while Larry catches up. I'll keep it logged out except for minor course corrections now and then.
In the meantime, I think I'm going to do an experiment with one of the alts to measure the true fuel usage rate.
Quite an experiment Good luck!
Good luck!Welp, just ran a stock sidewinder on an alt in supercruise for a little while for testing. The readout said 1.16T/hr, but it took 62 minutes to use 1 ton. That comes out to 0.97T/hr.Well, I've got good news and bad news.
Good news: My ship is more efficient than the fuel display claims!
Bad news: The fuel display is inaccurate. Therefore it is in on the conspiracy and is also trying to murder me along with COVAS and EDDiscovery!
I expected to reach 115ly before it was time for the next refueling. I'm at 120ly and have 50 tons of fuel left before it's time to refuel. Something's fishy here. It can't simply be rounding error; that would only give me an extra 0.6ly at most. It can't be EDDiscovery getting the fuel level wrong in this case since I completely topped up both ships on the last refueling stop, and I can visually inspect the fuel level bar and see that the percentage is wrong. I can only conclude that the fuel usage readout given by the UI is inaccurate by a small margin.
While this is cool since I get more range than predicted, it's also a shame since I optimized the limpet to fuel ratios of each tanker based off of the listed fuel usage rate, which means it will probably be off.
In an abundance of caution, I have decided to perform the refueling early. If there's fuel left over, I'll do a second mini-refueling like last time. For now, though, the Endurance Border has popped out of supercruise and is going on low power to act as a beacon while Larry catches up. I'll keep it logged out except for minor course corrections now and then.
In the meantime, I think I'm going to do an experiment with one of the alts to measure the true fuel usage rate.
So, yeah. I can't even trust the UI anymore.
I'm going to see how long it takes Larry to empty its reserve fuel tank to calculate its true fuel usage rate. Unfortunately I can't do the same for the Border until it's back underway.
While looking up the reserve tank size for a T9 to do this calculation, I found out the Sidewinder's tank is 0.3T instead of 0.25T. Using the correct amount of fuel used (0.6T) gives the correct result. Similarly, the tanker's fuel usage lined up with the UI value as well.
So maybe the UI is trustworthy after all. I've still got my eye on it, though...
So, I guess I'm back to square one with regard to where this extra distance is coming from. I guess I'll go over my spreadsheet?
(Thanks to Deluvian and Kalidas Acoma for help with troubleshooting)