Ships Love the T10 BUT..

[CMDR Cknarf]

I *may* have a vid of my T10 wasting a wing of 3 NPC Anacondas --an incredibly rare spawn-- but I had to clear some space for more recordings. I'll see if I still have it.

And reboot/repair still works, I use it all the time.

I throttle to about 40/ms with flight assist on, and reboot. Bumps them right back on.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Click for T10 crushing things

 

[Chris Simon]

Also to OP - Distributor is weak but the ship is far from useless, albeit a little limited in what you can do.
But a beam fighter to take care of the enemy shields with full-dakka setup on the T10 will take care of anything the game can throw at you.

 

[Ozram]

Click for T10 crushing things

Thanks for sharing. I must admit some of these vids are starting to give me an idea for one. My personal rules prohibit me from a pure pve setup (by that I mean at the very least the build should be designed with a viable tank escape in mind) but perhaps there’s a way. I never go full gimbals so I’ll have to look at the hardpoint placement more closely.

 

[Grisnir]

I stripped parts from my Corvette to the T10, and ended up with 2800mj in base shields with decent resistances. The class 8 SCB adds even more shielding. Armor wise, I'm around 6,000.

Edit to add: I think Biweaves on big ships are silly. Regen rate means nothing if you are under constant fire, so all you're doing is wasting some available shielding.

If you're just PVE bounty hunting, I recommend the reboot/repair trick to bump your shields back up to 50% between engagements.

somewhere in this forum is a detailed info why biweave are better, but short, biweave have more effective shield then normal shield with the right resistants

edit: so i take my Type-10 to fight a thargoid ... conclusion the Type-10 is bull

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Biweaves offer no more mj or resistance than a different shield generator, at least not as far as I know.

On some applications, a fast regent biweave with OK overall mj and high resistances is better, but not on a large ship like a type 10.

It makes sense on something fast, that can get out of range and quickly recharge, or something agile that will stay out of the line of fire.

Vulture/Clipper/Viper: Yes.

T10/Conda/Vette: No.

 

[Maka Gucci]

1000 MJ? On the T10? So, is that 8a or size 8 prismatics and a row of a grade boosters? Ooh, just been playing with Coriolis. Some interesting layouts can be managed. Big biweaves would probably tax the distro way beyond its recharge rate. But now I’m theory crafting. Would love to have some owners chime in.
https://youtu.be/z4DFxiFAC_o

I hit 1000 with thermal resistant bi weave 8Cs, 2 heavy duty, 2 resist augmented boosters, all G5 obviously. Only issue is recharge. Full pips it's about the same speed as my Prismatic Python.

 

[lenna]

well my Conda and Corvette needs Overcharged Size 8A powerplant and it still not enough power, the only ships that don't need A rating are trading ships and explorer ships,

ok let's assume that the Type-10 don't need a A rated powerplant, but the rest is necessary for thargoid hunting

Only really the A spec PD is required, the rest is negotiable in the main and with Engineering C spec should be more than adequate... based on my personal build.

 

[lenna]

1000 MJ? On the T10? So, is that 8a or size 8 prismatics and a row of a grade boosters? Ooh, just been playing with Coriolis. Some interesting layouts can be managed. Big biweaves would probably tax the distro way beyond its recharge rate. But now I’m theory crafting. Would love to have some owners chime in.
Edit: I found this pretty enjoyable to watch... Distro really clearly struggles with biweaves!

Not really... depends on what weapons you expect to use and whether you L5 Charge Enhance mod the 6A PD... my engineered PD should be able to maintain the 8C Bi-Weave with it's 4.2MW system recharge rate - 8C Bi-Weaves only require 3.48MW for regen. 8A or 6A Prismatics would be ideal though from an overall strength and regen consistency perspective. L4 Engineered 8C Bi-Weaves can theoretically hit the 1000MJ sweet spot I have mentioned, with a pair of Heavy Duty A class shield boosters.

Also keep in mind that we are talking PvE here rather than PvP, the latter introduces additional variables that are not encountered in the nominal PvE cases. Further more, I would not be using large gimballed cannons nor rail guns. The large cannons would be hindered in overall time on target and therefore would be less effective. The Large weapons would be turreted guns of some sort.

When I have built up enough spare cash (~15M) over and above my current float then I will be looking to refit my T10D with 8C Bi-Weaves and then engineer them to at least L4 Reinforced.

 

[Ozram]

Not really... depends on what weapons you expect to use and whether you L5 Charge Enhance mod the 6A PD... my engineered PD should be able to maintain the 8C Bi-Weave with it's 4.2MW system recharge rate - 8C Bi-Weaves only require 3.48MW for regen. 8A or 6A Prismatics would be ideal though from an overall strength and regen consistency perspective. L4 Engineered 8C Bi-Weaves can theoretically hit the 1000MJ sweet spot I have mentioned, with a pair of Heavy Duty A class shield boosters.

Also keep in mind that we are talking PvE here rather than PvP, the latter introduces additional variables that are not encountered in the nominal PvE cases. Further more, I would not be using large gimballed cannons nor rail guns. The large cannons would be hindered in overall time on target and therefore would be less effective. The Large weapons would be turreted guns of some sort.

When I have built up enough spare cash (~15M) over and above my current float then I will be looking to refit my T10D with 8C Bi-Weaves and then engineer them to at least L4 Reinforced.

I think the trouble is, the t10 will not take advantage of some of the best elements of biweaves, aka recharge after broken. I mean it just fully drains it in seconds and then recharges like they were prismatics. For that, may as well go prismatics or at least an A rate.

 

[lenna]

I think the trouble is, the t10 will not take advantage of some of the best elements of biweaves, aka recharge after broken. I mean it just fully drains it in seconds and then recharges like they were prismatics. For that, may as well go prismatics or at least an A rate.

Not really, even if the PD can not keep up with the faster build rate of the Bi-Weaves it will still rebuild faster since it will charge as fast as possible rather than having the recharge rate capped at under the PD's capability.

Short version, even with the 6A PD, the down time of the shields should still be lower than with Prismatics or normal shields - it may only be seconds difference but it will still be a difference and the less time the shields are down the less damage the hull will take.

 

[StiTch]

Said this on day it was released.

Naturally an abundance of players felt the need to interject for the sake of being contrary, implying you cannot judge everything about a ship before you've flown it...

...which is true, but you can still tell some things - and a C6 distributor supporting a massive ship is one of them. And I said right from the start shield regen is gonna be one of its bigger problems, particularly in contest with aliens where bi-weaves are usually recommended.

*sits back with cocktail to cackle*

 

[lenna]

Said this on day it was released.

Naturally an abundance of players felt the need to interject for the sake of being contrary, implying you cannot judge everything about a ship before you've flown it...

...which is true, but you can still tell some things - and a C6 distributor supporting a massive ship is one of them. And I said right from the start shield regen is gonna be one of its bigger problems, particularly in contest with aliens where bi-weaves are usually recommended.

*sits back with cocktail to cackle*

L5 CE 6A PD = 4.2MW system power
8C Bi-Weave = 3.56MW PD demand

Net result, PD can keep up with shield demand and the T10D can still benefit from Bi-Weaves.

The main issue is handling alpha damage which is addressed by ensuring a minimum shield level in the main. There needs to be an appropriate balance between shield damage absorption rates and shield strength relative to the damage that can be consistently dealt out. If you rely too much on gimballed/fixed weapons then you will lower your time on target and net damage over time. The T10D needs to be fitted with at least Large turrets in order to ensure that it can consistently and reliably deal out damage.

I have already trialled 6C Bi-Weaves and they are insufficient for sustained combat, but just about good enough to last while low/high waking.

I will be shortly trialling 8C Bi-Weaves as I was able to get them fitted just prior to today's server update - just got to get them engineered now.

 

[StiTch]

Short version, even with the 6A PD, the down time of the shields should still be lower than with Prismatics or normal shields - it may only be seconds difference but it will still be a difference and the less time the shields are down the less damage the hull will take.

But then...you may as well equip a standard shield because you'll get the minor extended uptime before it goes down? And better uptime at that?

It's an undersized distributor plain and simple. Fine concession to make on a trader. Not fine for a bigger "defender" version of a trader, but using that trader's same underpowered distributor.

It was put on the T9 as undersized to start with. Because it's a trader.

Of course, diverting full charge to SYS also leaves that C6 distributor powering the mighty defender's ENG and WEP on two pips.

l337.

 

[lenna]

But then...you may as well equip a standard shield because you'll get the minor extended uptime before it goes down? And better uptime at that?

Running the numbers through Coriolis the up time difference is marginal and the lower rebuild times more than make up for the differences.

Using Stock Eagle as a baseline opponent with my current engineered shield booster and PD setup:-

L4 Reinforced 6C Bi-Weave (311 MJ): Hold = 0:55, Recover = 0:39, Recharge = 0:51
8C Bi-Weave (810 MJ): Hold = 2:17, Recover = 1:05, Recharge = 1:09
8C Normal (877 MJ): Hold = 2:29, Recover = 1:10, Recharge = 3:02
8A Normal (1011 MJ): Hold = 2:51, Recover = 1:19, Recharge = 3:30
8A Prismatic (1212 MJ): Hold = 3:26, Recover = 2:08, Recharge = 7:12

The key points to note are:-

1. the Recharge time difference with the Bi-Weave is significantly lower (2 minutes faster than normal shields)
2. the Recovery Time is slightly better (5-15s faster than normal shields) but near enough the same
3. the Hold Time is still pretty decent (over 2 minutes and only 15-45s less than 8A Normal)

If planning for a stand up fight, Prismatics may be the best option on the face of things but that recharge time is a killer. The 8C Bi-Weave may still be the better option in reality.

 

[StiTch]

Running the numbers through Coriolis the up time difference is marginal and the lower rebuild times more than make up for the differences.

Using Stock Eagle as a baseline opponent with my current engineered shield booster and PD setup:-

L4 Reinforced 6C Bi-Weave (311 MJ): Hold = 0:55, Recover = 0:39, Recharge = 0:51
8C Bi-Weave (810 MJ): Hold = 2:17, Recover = 1:05, Recharge = 1:09
8C Normal (877 MJ): Hold = 2:29, Recover = 1:10, Recharge = 3:02
8A Normal (1011 MJ): Hold = 2:51, Recover = 1:19, Recharge = 3:30
8A Prismatic (1212 MJ): Hold = 3:26, Recover = 2:08, Recharge = 7:12

The key points to note are:-

1. the Recharge time difference with the Bi-Weave is significantly lower (2 minutes faster than normal shields)
2. the Recovery Time is slightly better (5-15s faster than normal shields) but near enough the same
3. the Hold Time is still pretty decent (over 2 minutes and only 15-45s less than 8A Normal)

If planning for a stand up fight, Prismatics may be the best option on the face of things but that recharge time is a killer. The 8C Bi-Weave may still be the better option in reality.

So basically it have have bi-weaves that perform marginally better at best at the cost of exhausting your distributor constantly, especially when it doesn't need the lower power consumption afforded by bi-weaves?

At that's shielding - that doesn't include the lower charge for ENG and appalling charge for weapons.

Again - we shouldn't be debating whether a distributor can provide enough juice to get a marginal improvement from bi-weaves on a defender. This is the kinda discussion you have for a trader.

 

[lenna]

So basically it have have bi-weaves that perform marginally better at best at the cost of exhausting your distributor constantly, especially when it doesn't need the lower power consumption afforded by bi-weaves?

At that's shielding - that doesn't include the lower charge for ENG and appalling charge for weapons.

Again - we shouldn't be debating whether a distributor can provide enough juice to get a marginal improvement from bi-weaves on a defender. This is the kinda discussion you have for a trader.

Those numbers are with 4 pips in shields, reduce the number of pips and things look worse even for Normal and Prismatic shields.

8C Bi-Weaves will extend the life of your hull and if you use an SLF as has been suggested elsewhere then the Bi-Weaves look even more promising since they should not be under constant attack so the Recharge time becomes more significant.

Pips can be reallocated on demand when deemed necessary as well which is another point.

Overall though, a 2 minute hold time for shields is still very respectable plus if you fit the right weapons PD drain need not be problematic.

 

[Ozram]

Not really, even if the PD can not keep up with the faster build rate of the Bi-Weaves it will still rebuild faster since it will charge as fast as possible rather than having the recharge rate capped at under the PD's capability.

Short version, even with the 6A PD, the down time of the shields should still be lower than with Prismatics or normal shields - it may only be seconds difference but it will still be a difference and the less time the shields are down the less damage the hull will take.

In my experience, this can be crippling. While you have pips to systems and they are down, other items that require systems will not function (like chaff or sinks), all the while you still have to manage engines and weapons. The more you give to the others, the slower the recharge goes.
I do have a reasonable amount of combat experience and I can guarantee that’s a big flaw. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. That’s a simple fact. Having a shield that the distro can handle makes a huge difference everywhere else.
When it comes to that, I’m not theorycrafting. I’m talking from experience. Being stuck with a sluggish shield regen and zero pool in systems is a situation to avoid if possible. Having it there intentionally is a massive build flaw.

 

[StiTch]

Those numbers are with 4 pips in shields, reduce the number of pips and things look worse even for Normal and Prismatic shields.

What on earth are you on about? Pip allocation gives a proportional strength advantage. Bi-weaves will gain the same relative defense boost, but with less than 4 pips, you severely exacerbate its draining issue - making them considerably WORSE if you aren't constantly putting pips to them.

8C Bi-Weaves will extend the life of your hull and if you use an SLF as has been suggested elsewhere then the Bi-Weaves look even more promising since they should not be under constant attack so the Recharge time becomes more significant.

Ship the size of a small space station? Not under constant attack?

I dno if you just shoot harmless adders or something but against anything on your level you're going to be hit very regularly.

Ya cannot dance around the fact the distributor is the chokepoint for this ship's ability, and quite heavily at that.

In my experience, this can be crippling. While you have pips to systems and they are down, other items that require systems will not function (like chaff or sinks), all the while you still have to manage engines and weapons. The more you give to the others, the slower the recharge goes.
I do have a reasonable amount of combat experience and zi can guarantee that’s a big flaw. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. That’s a simple fact. Having a shield that the distro can handle makes a huge difference everywhere else.

Also this, which I was going to mention but thought I wouldn't bring up too much at once ^

 

[Ozram]

What on earth are you on about? Pip allocation gives a proportional strength advantage. Bi-weaves will gain the same relative defense boost, but with less than 4 pips, you severely exacerbate its draining issue - making them considerably WORSE if you aren't constantly putting pips to them.



Ship the size of a small space station? Not under constant attack?

I dno if you just shoot harmless adders or something but against anything on your level you're going to be hit very regularly.

Ya cannot dance around the fact the distributor is the chokepoint for this ship's ability, and quite heavily at that.

The guy just defends and defends with little regard for how the game mechanics actually work. I’m not sure why I bother replying anymore.