Make it so rank-up missions can't be the same type again.

[Chrystoph]

Why is the total number of players relevant?

And who cares if they don't want it? People don't WANT to do a lot of things. Sometimes I feel like what people WANT is to log in, set their credits to one trillion, and be done with the game instantly.

The point of difficulty is to make the eventual reward feel more meaningful because it was more difficult to acquire, and that's exactly what this would do.

With the side benefit of maybe showing them content they've never seen before.

Sorry, I guess injecting technical requirements was... difficult for you to deal with.

So, your idea to make a grind wall more appealing is... to inject yet more grind and force people into game play styles they have shown they actively don't want?

It would seem to me that you've forgotten that this is a game, and games are played for enjoyment. If they are going that far out of their way to avoid the content you want to require, then it should be obvious that they don't enjoy the content in question.

Now, because I try not to pose problems without offering solutions, if there were more to ranking than acquiring late stage ships, such as actual career functions, your proposal might have some merit. As it is, all you are requesting is to make the game less desirable for other players because you believe it should be that way.

Just as a sideline, are you already max ranked?

 

[Maymo]

It's only boring because the process of getting it is boring. Make that more interesting and it makes getting more interesting as well.

Which this suggestion would achieve.

The rank up missions are just the same as normal missions of the same type, there’s nothing interesting or unique about that sorry.

Like I said above, each rank should be meaningful. The player should get to fly away and perhaps enjoy the privileges of their new rank for a while without just returning to the rep grind...

What if Midshipmen also got increased federal trade bonuses to go with their new title? Imperial Masters got discounts on imperial slaves... What about unique modules? Rare goods bonuses...

I do like your constant suggestions, you know I do!
But this particular part of the game has always been a very sore spot for me and twiddling the nature of the rank up mission comes nowhere close to satisfying my desire to improve ranking up as a whole.

——

Anyone here ever play Morrowind? How cool was ranking up with a faction in Morrowind!! That was a game that really knew how to reward the players time!

 

[DemiserofD]

So, your idea to make a grind wall more appealing is... to inject yet more grind and force people into game play styles they have shown they actively don't want?

No, the idea is to make players do a wide variety of activities to make the experience more challenging and interesting, rather than being a boring wall of courier missions.

It would seem to me that you've forgotten that this is a game, and games are played for enjoyment.

It would seem that you've forgotten this game isn't an auto-clicker, and you shouldn't be able to do the exact same thing ten million times to win.

If they are going that far out of their way to avoid the content you want to require, then it should be obvious that they don't enjoy the content in question.

I don't think that's obvious at all. People ALWAYS follow the path of least resistance. If that means taking ten thousand courier missions, they'll do it, even if it's FAR more boring than the alternative.

As it is, all you are requesting is to make the game less desirable for other players because you believe it should be that way.

I'm requesting that it be made more challenging and fun. This is like dealing with children; they only WANT cookies, not realizing that eating their broccoli will actually make them happier and healthier in the long run.

Sorry, I guess injecting technical requirements was... difficult for you to deal with.

Nice veiled insult to my intelligence, there. Next time why don't you just come out and call me an idiot? No need to beat around the bush, tell everyone how you really feel!

 

[DemiserofD]

The rank up missions are just the same as normal missions of the same type, there’s nothing interesting or unique about that sorry.

That's true. The difference is that people always try to do things in the most efficient way possible. It would be very inefficient, for example, to raid a ground installation for rank, as it would take far, far longer than just doing a million courier missions.

So most people do just courier or cargo missions, and never, ever do the more challenging ones.

I think having to do ONE different mission every few hundred is a very small price to pay, and would diversify the rank-up process. Not as much as perhaps might be ideal, but it would be a big difference for minimal effort on fdev's behalf.

 

[skananote]

No, the idea is to make players do a wide variety of activities to make the experience more challenging and interesting, rather than being a boring wall of courier missions.

So forcing player to do combat even if said player is not combat person but say explorer... How does it work with CHOICE?? Why do you assume courier mission are not challenging and interesting? You see I like those. I am fully ranked yet I still do courier missions. Actually a lot of them, those missions give me fun and challenge...

 

[DemiserofD]

So forcing player to do combat even if said player is not combat person but say explorer... How does it work with CHOICE?? Why do you assume courier mission are not challenging and interesting? You see I like those. I am fully ranked yet I still do courier missions. Actually a lot of them, those missions give me fun and challenge...

This is a failed argument. You could argue with exactly the same Merit that players shouldn't need to travel 5000 light years to unlock the engineers, if they didn't like exploring. Or that you should be able to unlock the Colonia engineers without going there.

Except that would be ridiculous. It's perfectly acceptable for this game to force you to do things that make some tiny portion of players uncomfortable.

 

[Maymo]

That's true. The difference is that people always try to do things in the most efficient way possible. It would be very inefficient, for example, to raid a ground installation for rank, as it would take far, far longer than just doing a million courier missions.

So most people do just courier or cargo missions, and never, ever do the more challenging ones.

I think having to do ONE different mission every few hundred is a very small price to pay, and would diversify the rank-up process. Not as much as perhaps might be ideal, but it would be a big difference for minimal effort on fdev's behalf.

Totally agree. The answer to that is to petition FD to improve the REP+ disparity between missions...

I’ve ranked up recently...very recently in fact...

...I did up to Post Captain using a Dropship doing Rep+++ passenger missions out of Wolf 562 (swear to god).

Did I want to do it this way? Absolutely not!

I’d much rather have done assassinations or massacre missions...

...but the REP disparity is totally off. Doing a massacre is REP+++++, delivering just two quick +++ passenger missions is REP++++++ and if you happen to be delivering those passengers to another Federation faction I think it actually becomes Rep++++++++++++ because you’re getting +REP/Rank at both ends of the mission train...

Not ideal.

The journey (ranking up) is more important to me than the destination (rank up mission) and its not been right.....ever really.

 

[skananote]

This is a failed argument. You could argue with exactly the same Merit that players shouldn't need to travel 5000 light years to unlock the engineers, if they didn't like exploring. Or that you should be able to unlock the Colonia engineers without going there.

Except that would be ridiculous. It's perfectly acceptable for this game to force you to do things that make some tiny portion of players uncomfortable.

LOL, keep thinking that. You trying to take the choice away from the player. Good luck with that...

 

[Maymo]

LOL, keep thinking that. You trying to take the choice away from the player. Good luck with that...

Actually, I think you both have a point....

I personally detest that unlocking engineers forces the player to form alliances and adopt professions that aren’t part of their intentioned role play. Especially when it comes to the Federation and Empire engineers.

It’s very difficult to fully immerse yourself in your cmdr’s own story when you find yourself compromising it just to progress in the game.

The only RP option in ED is to become some kind of morally challenged freeloader...

 

[DemiserofD]

LOL, keep thinking that. You trying to take the choice away from the player. Good luck with that...

Seeing as I was one of the people advocating for the reduction in mining income, I could say I have already achieved some degree of success. Yay me!

Oh wait, that didn't limit player choice, it actually dramatically expanded it by removing any single best option. Funny how that works.

 

[DemiserofD]

Actually, I think you both have a point....

I personally detest that unlocking engineers forces the player to form alliances and adopt professions that aren’t part of their intentioned role play. Especially when it comes to the Federation and Empire engineers.

It’s very difficult to fully immerse yourself in your cmdr’s own story when you find yourself compromising it just to progress in the game.

The only RP option in ED is to become some kind of morally challenged freeloader...

I'm conflicted on this; on the one hand, I support player choice, but on the other hand, those tough choices are exactly the sort of thing that make the elite dangerous Universe the thing that it is. The good guys don't exist , really, in no small part because they have to do bad things even the playing field.

I would be cautiously open to alternatives; for example, to unlock the dweller, rather than trading at 5 black markets, you might just pay him 100 million credits. But such actions would be rarely used, so it feels a bit like a waste of Dev time.

In a somewhat similar light, equalizing the reputation gain from different types of missions would certainly help, but ultimately players would still find the option that generates reputation fastest, and then do that to the exclusion of all else. The problem itself wouldn't be solved, just shifted around a little bit.

By contrast, having a requirement like this would make Mission diversity mandatory. Which would be, at worst, a very small negative( One mission in hundreds?), and at best, a substantial positive.

 

[Chrystoph]

Nice veiled insult to my intelligence, there. Next time why don't you just come out and call me an idiot? No need to beat around the bush, tell everyone how you really feel!

A opposed to you disparaging my argument as pointless....

 

[DemiserofD]

A opposed to you disparaging my argument as pointless....

Disparaging? It was pointless. Throwing random numbers around doesn't give an argument weight.

The only numbers that MIGHT be relevant would be how many missions it causes EACH PLAYER. This isn't really a good argument by the way, since the total number of missions required would be a minuscule fraction of the total number of missions required to rank up, but how could this possibly be related to the fact that there are a bunch of new players who joined recently?

Example; if I'm complaining that it takes too many button presses to request docking, fine. If I then say, "Even worse, each player probably gets like 3-4 different keyboards in their time playing, which means they have to press too many buttons ON THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT KEYBOARDS!"

So what? This is completely irrelevant.

 

[skananote]

Seeing as I was one of the people advocating for the reduction in mining income, I could say I have already achieved some degree of success. Yay me!

LOL, it wasn't you. It was a pressure from social media that did it. All those YT moaners had an input in here, please don't take the credit for something I doubt you were involved in. You just happened to be on the right side of the wall. FDev does not care about players opinion, they fear what every business fears - PR and media opinion...

 

[skananote]

I'm conflicted on this; on the one hand, I support player choice, but on the other hand, those tough choices are exactly the sort of thing that make the elite dangerous Universe the thing that it is. The good guys don't exist , really, in no small part because they have to do bad things even the playing field.

ED was always about the choice of career. My choice is simple. I am not a combat pilot. If this will be taken away from me not giving me any alternative it will leave me no choice but to abandon the game. Not that you care as you proved already in you posts...

 

[Jmanis]

You are doing this for the Imperial Cutter and the Federal Corvette, along with other MILITARY ships. You are doing this for access to MILITARY Bases and Systems, you are only kissing up to the Feds and Imps because you joined their navy. No non-combat personnel is promoted to a rear admiral and granted a COMBAT ship, that just doesn't make sense.

Incidentally, there's a long history and precedent of nation states providing access to military hardware and bases to civilian entities, whether individual or groups... and military entities providing formal military recognition through awards and honorary rank, and vice versa.

 

[DemiserofD]

LOL, it wasn't you. It was a pressure from social media that did it. All those YT moaners had an input in here, please don't take the credit for something I doubt you were involved in. You just happened to be on the right side of the wall. FDev does not care about players opinion, they fear what every business fears - PR and media opinion...

I actually highly doubt that youtubers had much to do with it. If you'll recall, they didn't want mining nerfed at all; they wanted combat buffed up to the OLD mining rates!

Which obviously didn't happen. Devs don't listen to whiners if they want to have a game to develop in a few years.

Fortunately, these devs seem to be of the sort that listen to good ideas, so I'd say there's a halfway decent chance!

ED was always about the choice of career. My choice is simple. I am not a combat pilot. If this will be taken away from me not giving me any alternative it will leave me no choice but to abandon the game. Not that you care as you proved already in you posts...

Sure it is! You have the CHOICE to not do combat-related activities. That already restricts you from Juri Ishmaak, Todd Mcquinn, Broo Tarquin, and Lori Jameson, Guardian Technology, Thargoid Technology, CQC, Triple Elite, Combat Community Goals, Wars, BGS Modification, and, of course, the vast majority of player interaction.

So clearly you're already perfectly fine with a game where not all options are available to you!

So you should have absolutely no problem continuing to play! After all, it's something you've already accepted without any problems!

 

[DemiserofD]

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Incidentally, there's a long history and precedent of nation states providing access to military hardware and bases to civilian entities, whether individual or groups... and military entities providing formal military recognition through awards and honorary rank, and vice versa.

It could absolutely technically work either way, but I think it makes more sense my way, and would also make a better game overall, so it's a win-win, don't you think?

 

[skananote]

It could absolutely technically work either way, but I think it makes more sense my way, and would also make a better game overall, so it's a win-win, don't you think?

Nope, your idea is not better. Is different but far from better... Again, FORCING players into activity they do not enjoy is not better...

 

[Jmanis]

It could absolutely technically work either way, but I think it makes more sense my way, and would also make a better game overall, so it's a win-win, don't you think?

Nah... like i said before... the current "ranking" system isn't even a career path. It's a glorified unlock system. Corporations are more militant than the superpower navies, which is bad.

Make it like it was in FE2/FFE, where the naval work was a separate set of missions offered by the superpower, at any of its minor holdings.