Mamba buffs?

[[VR] Mad Mike]

power creep is inevitable - though i do hope FD resist the urge to go too far too quickly with it.

but what we need are specific missions which come with set ships and load outs...... flying older ships because its nice to is all well and good, but i would love genuine in game reasons to need to use them sometimes...... the cobra V basically obsoletes every small pad ship in the game (maybe not the vulture?) but having to jump back in my sidewinder , hauler, adder or cobra III for a while for a genuine need to would be great imo.

i would love a total mission rework , with special care taken over the military careers - possibly with missions that have to be done coming up if we want to keep our rank. (albeit with rules so they are localish too you)

 

[Morbad]

Mamba doesn't need any more buffs. I highly doubt it's as outclassed by any of the new ships as some claim, but if it is, the issue is with the new ships, not the Mamba.

power creep is inevitable - though i do hope FD resist the urge to go too far too quickly with it.

It's not inevitable. It's a willful decision by Frontier. The last time their ship balance decisions made any real sense, from something that a planned obsolescence/future monetization perspective, was when they nerfed the crap out of the original Python.

<Mandatory ramble about how all ships got additional slots when SCA and ADC were introduced, followed by snarky question if you're prepared to give them back./>

The sole ship buff I didn't have a problem with was the buff to the Asp scout.

Personally, I think all ships that were extant as of 1.4 should be rolled back to those specifications, the Mamba should be dialed back to what it originally was during the beta test (except maybe for the heat capacity), and all ships released since should be rebalanced around those.

Those extra internals can go.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

It's not inevitable. It's a willful decision by Frontier. The last time their ship balance decisions made any real sense, from something that a planned obsolescence/future monetization perspective, was when they nerfed the crap out of the original Python.

well ok sure it is frontiers choice at the end of the day but i dont think it is unreasonable to expect a new model of ship to have slight edges over ones which are meant to be designs 100s of years old.

technology improves over time (I am talking in an RPG way here).
if i was looking at a competitive PvP game like counterstrike then i would feel differently. there balance is vital, but imo in an RPG it is ok for a little creep.

i will say however i never understood why FD felt the need to buff the anaconda with military slots. that ship was already the king of the multirole before it was buffed

 

[Riks]

While I agree that powercreep isn't fun in that it devalues old ships' viability, I get the desire to see some ships keep up with the new ones.
It would be cool if we could retrofit old ships to support SCO technology, or that they could be upgraded further as a ship model to lean more into their specialization at the cost of some negative attributes...
But I think Elite's setting is realistic in that similar to cars from our 20th-21st century, newer cars made with newer technology can be better than older cars, and in this case let's remember that the FSD is also a new piece of technology that made the old spaceships unfit for FSDs redundant.

 

[imski]

Can FD also rebalance my Nissan please?

Newer cars are more efficient, have better use of cargo space and are safer too...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Unfortunately, power creep is what usually happens. It doesn't have to, but players kept wanting new ships, despite us already having 38 before they started adding more, and to sell them for $$$, they've got to be good.

FD have nudged their business the Star Citizen direction, and i'm not entirely happy for that, but on the other hand, FD need to keep ED profitable to keep adding new content.

Just wish FD had found another way

 

[AlSki]

There's a few mamba buffs that'd benefit all ships. If we could get configurable weapon convergence that'd be nice. Set it so that all the weapons aim at the same point at a certain distance. off, 500, 1000, 1500, 2500, 5000m.

Isn't that automatic given that even fixed weapons have micro-gimballing?

Limpet controllers with built in limpet storage. You couldn't take cargo but at least you could gather mats. There's not a lot of slots on a mamba so sometimes it's hard to justify using 2 for limpets you don't strictly need.

Would that be that a Class 1 limpet controller becomes a Class 2 (Class 1 Controller + Class 1 Cargo), a Class 3 Controller becomes a Class 4 (Class 3 Controller + Class 3 Storage) etc ?

Combined flight assist module

Class 2 Combined (Class 1 AutoPilot+Class 1 SCA) ?

 

[S0rkvild]

Mamba pitch rates could be better, but I highly doubt if they ever adjust these rates as they never did that with any ship

 

[PilotB]

Isn't that automatic given that even fixed weapons have micro-gimballing?

given that micro gimbling is micro and the mamba is a wide boy. Not even close.

Would that be that a Class 1 limpet controller becomes a Class 2 (Class 1 Controller + Class 1 Cargo), a Class 3 Controller becomes a Class 4 (Class 3 Controller + Class 3 Storage) etc ?

I was thinking you could take a class 2 limpet features of the class 1 but has a supply of 4 limpets. Class 4 like a class 3 but maybe 16 limpets and then since they're ammo we could restock them with the resupply button instead of going through so many different layers to get out limpets back. You don't have to remove the ability to carry limpets in cargo and resupply from there but a few just baked directly into the controller. So it won't give you any cargo capacity you still need cargo for that but you could at least scoop engineering mats or hack transmitters.

Class 2 Combined (Class 1 AutoPilot+Class 1 SCA) ?

Class 1. Your ship can do everything the advanced docking computer gives you but only when you're not in the pilot's seat. Just roll it into a combined flight assist it shouldn't even be a module but it can remain a module for the people who cry about it and don't want to find the easy to find config that turns auto docking off.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

The only solution you'd get for this would be the Mamba mk2, available for purchase using arx (Odyssey only).

 

[Elpapo]

Mamba pitch rates could be better, but I highly doubt if they ever adjust these rates as they never did that with any ship

They did, but only handfull of times.

There was two times, when Fdevs changed ship stats for handling and speed, that I can think off and remember.

Back in early 2015, Python got hit with nerf bat, something like -33% top speed, and it got lowered turn rates to current levels. Yep, orginal prenerf Python, had been much faster and nible.

Mamba, short while after it was relased, it had very small boost to its top speed, and had its turn rates "rebalanced" wich did bring mixed opinions at time, as basically all of cmdrs did welcome speed buff, but not everyone liked handling change. Yep, the irony of all of this, is that "adjust" was already been made. Mamba ended up as it is.

There was some minor changes in variety of ships stats since og python nerf but was either internal optimal slots layouts, or ships heat handling.
FDL until 2016 orginally had a one size smaller powerplant as well (it was even mentioned in galnet when they upped it), as it had size 5, and much better heat disspation at some point (before plant buff)

Not much else of ships had ever Core internals changed. Neither no ship ever had changed hardpoint layout, after being relased.

There was a day also, when every medium and large, did recived extra optimal module slot for size 1, while smaller ships, recived 2x size 1 slots.
It was also known as day, when DBS became viable explorer, as before, it did not had enough space to run typical explorer bulid.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Honestly, for me it feels more scary when a ganker appears in a mamba than if they do with a corsair

What weak ship (if so, no shame in that, I'm sure you will get a better one soon!) or hauler ship are you flying that can run away from a Corsair (boost speed 600m/s, mass lock factor 17), but not a Mamba (~625m/s, MLF 12)?

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

The only solution you'd get for this would be the Mamba mk2, available for purchase using arx (Odyssey only).

And that is the best solution.
Much better than magically alter all player owned existing Mambas.

Also, make it SCO optimized.

 

[Rebel Yell]

I loved the Mamba (well, I still love it), besides it has lost DPS to the Py2 and speed advantage to the Corsair.

I'd like to have a Mamba Mk2 with same zoom/boom flight model, better SCO handling, possibly with C1 becoming C2 hardpoints, and please please better hardpoints convergence.

 

[Three Stars]

The Mamba is perfectly fine. All top mounted hardpoints that don’t get blocked by the hull. Just enough hardpoints to make a useful build without overwhelming the distributor, but also enough limitation to make you think about what you’re mounting onto the hardpoints. It’s fast and can be made faster with mass management. Plenty of base shields to build on. It doesn’t drift and goes where you point it.

The real problem with the Mamba is the ship kit. Random hunks of curved metal bolted onto the hull. Whatever good and flattering looks there are for the Mamba, the existing ship kit isn’t it.

Elite Dangerous ships operate under the Winthorp-Valentine Principle. The pilot’s performance with any ship is directly related to how good the ship looks.

“Looking good, Billy Ray!”

“Feeling good, Louis!”

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

The Mamba is perfectly fine. All top mounted hardpoints that don’t get blocked by the hull. Just enough hardpoints to make a useful build without overwhelming the distributor, but also enough limitation to make you think about what you’re mounting onto the hardpoints. It’s fast and can be made faster with mass management. Plenty of base shields to build on. It doesn’t drift and goes where you point it.

The real problem with the Mamba is the ship kit. Random hunks of curved metal bolted onto the hull. Whatever good and flattering looks there are for the Mamba, the existing ship kit isn’t it.

Elite Dangerous ships operate under the Winthorp-Valentine Principle. The pilot’s performance with any ship is directly related to how good the ship looks.

“Looking good, Billy Ray!”

“Feeling good, Louis!”

That used be to what I thought (except for the ship kit part, which I don't care about...I find the Mamba is beautiful as it is, no need for tuning)...until I got wrecked by other commanders flying Python2 (and FdL).

Still, a perfectly fine ship for PvE.

 

[MPL3D]

What weak ship (if so, no shame in that, I'm sure you will get a better one soon!) or hauler ship are you flying that can run away from a Corsair (boost speed 600m/s, mass lock factor 17), but not a Member (~625m/s, MLF 12)?

No offense, and thanks for asking, but I said mamba was more scary than corsair, not that I could not run away from any of them.

Anyway, I did not mention that I don't like to wake out, I think boosting away is more annoying and frustrating for gankers, and it makes them lose more time.

I think mamba is still harder to leave behind and has a bigger sting.

My ship? The one that flies like a falcon, rams like a rhino, and lands like a dragonfly.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I think it is inevitable that old designs get surpassed, and possibly retired by new ships.

This. I mean some people seem way too emotionally attached to a ship. Where is it carved in stone that the Mamba shall forever remain the fastest ship? It's silly. The Mamba has a lot going for it over the Corsair.

 

[Nidoboros]

By the way, how many car manufacturers call in a 10 year old car and equip it with newest technology (for free)?

Ignoring the fact that real life does not need to adhere to game balance (see everyone getting advanced planetary approach suite for free, and system permits somehow stopping you from going anywhere)... you still have to buy the thing you're putting in the slot.

Combined flight assist module. Save slots spend credits and fitting.

I don't think flightbassists need optional modules at all, I think there should be a nav computer core unit you stick upgrades on... but then, I think all ship modules should be re-done to work like Odyssey suits/guns, so shrug.

DSS + SRV bay module. Again save slots scan the planet, land on the planet and do what you want to do.

Ditto DSS needing to be part of sensors, and SRV/SLF/(and maybe even limpets I haven't brainstormed this enough) get shoved into a vehicle bay for launching (some ships cannot launch fighters, if you include the limpets, they collect by default but maybe controllers allow to make them do other stuff).

Also we live in a world where your flight suit, as long as it has power, can infinitely replenish air and regulate temperature. We need to rethink how the Life Support system works.

... one day I should actually make a brainstorming thread. But I am lazy.

 

[Sylow]

I remember when FD gave everyone the FSS when 3.3 launched.
Despite it being a massive improvement over the module it replaced, there were complaints from some that they never had the choice...

Gamers, eh?

I remember when FD wanted to fix part of the issue with resist stacking of engineers. And almost everybody who actually tried it loved the changes. Yet a small group, who openly admitted that they did not ever enter the test server, either due to being console players, or due to personal conviction, did a over 600 pages long circle-[insert matching word here], telling each other again and again how much they hated the change.

Of course, FD then canceled the improvement. I still wish they would finally dare to implement even that small rebalancing of resist stacking. But a few uninformed people, managed to produce so much text, that FD will never do that any more. Gamers, eh...

On the topic itself here, though: i find that basically replacing sending so many existing ships into obsolescence is a bad move from a game design point of view.

Already created ships are existing content. If they are used, they might sell paintjobs and ship kits. Obsolete ships, on the other hand, do not sell anything. One solution which might please both fans of the new ships, as well as be profitable for FD, could be that existing ship kits (thus: minimal investment of development effort) would give ships improved SCO capability. Sure, the Corsair and the Mamba would both be very fast ships, but they then still would both be kind of more viable.

More options for all players. Players win. Exiting content, which development time is paid of already, stays relevant. Both sides win. Existing ship kits (thus again development effort already paid) get more attractive. Resulting in more sales. Developers win.