Mark, when will the "meta" nerfing stop?
- Thread starter GunnerBill
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Things will stop being tweaked when things are more balanced. Singular metas are symptoms of unbalanced games, and arguably not even a metagame by the definition of the word due to being the strongest going by in-game mechanics rather than through the usage of out-of-game mechanics like a true meta is. When the popular choices become a result of player tastes rather than effectiveness, then we will begin to have a true metagame, but until then we basically have the developer clapping their hands and declaring how to play the game.
When 75% of the player base is using exactly the same strategy, sometimes it is due to something being considered cool and trendy, but more often it is due to balance issues making them the outright best way to play.
When 75% of the player base is using exactly the same strategy, sometimes it is due to something being considered cool and trendy, but more often it is due to balance issues making them the outright best way to play.
And you've highlighted a key point here which is what are they really doing? There's no real combat ship diversity in this game to support a good rock/paper/scissor variety of gameplay. One can't have a successful tanking build. One can't have a successful 'e-war' or 'wizard' build. One can't even have a speed build nor a glass-cannon build nor some sort of effective support build. Changing up the weapon type or mix does nothing to change the fact there is only one real combat ship that simply dominates all performance criteria regardless of what is installed (to a point). This is a huge part of the imbalance problem but is getting zero attention. In fact the power plant buff - which no one asked for - helped create this monster.
Really, if they want to kill the current meta then CHANGE the current meta itself and don't try to elevate everything around it. The current meta problem is with the FdL, plain and simple. This one dominant ship abuses the mistake of being allowed to stack gear (too many utility slots) to create the shield meta build problem which is the meta-thing FDev says they need to fix. Why don't they see this blatantly obvious problem? No ship should dominant the stats like this one ship does in speed, armor, shielding, slots, etc. But then again what do we know. We only play the game.
Back to nerfing, the only nerf to start with is to in-buff the FdL and place limits on gear stacking*. Play with weapons later. Also look at making shield boosters internal slots and shield cell banks use utility slots - it's always seemed backwards having gear requiring consumables installed into internal slots. And this would follow the other logic for hull resistance and the upcoming module resistance.
BTW not a new thought as many hardcore PvP'ers saw this risk and potential for abuse and OP'ness back when SCB were first introduced in early 2015. And here we are...
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You mean, the dawn of the Torpedo/plasma meta?
'something' always has to be the best? at a particular job, yeah, sure, there will always be the 'most dps' e.t.c.
But that shouldn't be the only option, there should be combinations of attacks that rely on other things then dps and can kill people just as effectively, maybe because it uses dots, or whatnot.
So yeah, and 'meta' are generally exactly the opposite of that flexibility, they are generally 'hey this thing is the only thing you need' and if those exist, things needs tweaking in my book.
I've got that one! It's totally OP and needs nerfing!!!!1111oneone
Yes, the problem is shown with the examples in my OP: Hull then Shield Tanking, I don't think FD will get it right ever. It'll just be another meta that'll get busted in 6 months time for.... another meta.
There are so many Builds and possabilitys in Combat. At least in PvE, but none cares about that these days so lets nerf so PvP can have a new Meta. And you know there will be a new Meta, there always will. Trying to change that is like a dog chasing his tail
As long as there are PVPers there will be this Game Called Balance that frontier play,PvPers play to win this means Destroying other players,So For PVPers is race to Give themselves the best advantage Winning is the only thing PVPers understand,So frontier think they have to change the game to address this one dimensional Play style.This one of the reasons I do not play in open because and there limited interest in other aspects of the Game,NPC on the other can have motivations other than Win,Win,Win.Personal I am more interested in the The experience of owning and piloting my own starship than Glorification of my own skill,I know this is only a game and we all have to some extent we have to suspend our disbelief there only so much disbelief I will suspend Because Frontier want to pander to a certain play style
All of which are more successful then elite, it's all most like listening to high teir players and looking at weapon stat's is a good thing for games. Also it should be noted that as a member of a group that is involved in this discussion there are an equal number of pve players involved as well. So no it's not just the PvP crowd, it's people that Fdev consider the right people to listen to when regarding combat.
Of course all decisions and changes are made by Fdev themselves and not the group. So if they think it's not following their design or how they want to balance then it won't get implemented. So again it's not PvPers making changes that you don't like it's Fdev.
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As long as the game has a multiple ways for you to interact with it there will always be a meta, and it will always need to be adjusted regularly.
It will stop when the game is finished.
Actually 2.0 was a really good balance game but as long as they are adding content which have some significant impact on existing content, things tend to get imbalanced and need further balance adjustments. That's basically the most constructive answer I can deliver to the question "How long?".
This. There will always be a meta. Absolute balance is unachieveable, absolute boredom because everything is nerfed to oblivion however is.
Module packs will mostly apply to ships that are more vulnerable to module attacks and will counter missile spam in PvP to an extent. After having flown the FAS in Conflict Zones recently, module packs will be VERY welcome. Ships that mostly rely on shields already will probably still lean heavily on that, especially since you will be able to reboot/repair to get them back up. Granted, this will likely bring back some stealth builds in PvP, so that needs a counter. It's all an attempt to ensure there are more than one or two viable strategies and those strategies also have a counter. "Meta nerfing" happens as an attempt to ensure there isn't a meta to rule them all. It's a good thing. I for one welcome variety even though I do no PvP at all. I would LOVE to get away with a silent running hull tanker in PvE, but the AI just doesn't care about any of that, especially since modules are currently so vulnerable.
dunno when but not this time around. it's a fekload of changes at once, the result will just be a different meta, and with new items added just more chances for unbalance. i don't even bother to closely follow the process anymore, will see what's left in the end, and adapt to it whatever it is.
about the meta: there will always be one, and many players will go for it just because (herd behavior). imo the problem is not the meta (even if real or just perceived) but mechanics and tactics left simply not viable, e.g. hull tanking atm, or evasion since like forever. this just makes the game poorer.
i highly doubt this can be fixed with these sporadic nerf&buff storms, drawn up in a cave. this needs small adjustments over many testing iterations.
about the meta: there will always be one, and many players will go for it just because (herd behavior). imo the problem is not the meta (even if real or just perceived) but mechanics and tactics left simply not viable, e.g. hull tanking atm, or evasion since like forever. this just makes the game poorer.
i highly doubt this can be fixed with these sporadic nerf&buff storms, drawn up in a cave. this needs small adjustments over many testing iterations.
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Yeah, and while we're at it how about that completely useless buzz prefix 'meta'? If you're talking about metagaming then bloody say so!
There are so many Builds and possabilitys in Combat. At least in PvE, but none cares about that these days so lets nerf so PvP can have a new Meta. And you know there will be a new Meta, there always will. Trying to change that is like a dog chasing his tail
PvE only has variety because it is too easy. Pretty much any ship and/or equipment set works in PvE and it is hard to figure out which things work better than others. PvP immediately puts every combination into a sink or swim situation.
Indeed some things can be tweaked and such but some of these changes seem to be just for the sake of fiddling. For example the hull defense pack...its a silly change in a way as they just had not to nerf hull tanking in the first place cause that what these modules are really.. a way to undo that nerf.
Seriously they need to stop fiddling with stuff and work on more content cause frankly all the fiddling is starting to turn some of us away which means it's less likely they will see the color of our money anytime soon.
All these changes for the sake of "balance" is silly, people will min/max and the only way to stop it as FD seems to want is to nerf everything into being the same.
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