Market Weirdness: Inconsistently Open Commodities Markets

[Marigold Ipswitch]

I have been experiencing an odd set of inconsistencies in commodities markets (NOT black markets) being open or closed depending on what faction owns the station. This was happening before Odyssey but I now have gathered enough data to discuss and hopefully get clarity with the community.

Situation: An outpost has been owned by several different factions. Federal Democracy (open commodities market), Federal Player Faction Corporation (closed commodities market), Independent Player Faction Democracy (open commodities market), Imperial Corporation (closed commodities market)

From all the information I have gathered from past threads discussing influence and markets, I have no other data of people experiencing a change in commodities markets being open or closed depending on government. Is this just a bug? Has anyone else seen similar?

 

[smiths121]

I have been experiencing an odd set of inconsistencies in commodities markets (NOT black markets) being open or closed depending on what faction owns the station. This was happening before Odyssey but I now have gathered enough data to discuss and hopefully get clarity with the community.

Situation: An outpost has been owned by several different factions. Federal Democracy (open commodities market), Federal Player Faction Corporation (closed commodities market), Independent Player Faction Democracy (open commodities market), Imperial Corporation (closed commodities market)

From all the information I have gathered from past threads discussing influence and markets, I have no other data of people experiencing a change in commodities markets being open or closed depending on government. Is this just a bug? Has anyone else seen similar?

What state are the factions in? Not sure if there is a state that can close markets these day (actually not sure there ever was my BGS foo is crap ... and out of date).

Corps do not normally close markets. There are a couple of hidden stats still, that I thought only affected missions.

Edit: Obviously Dangerous Discussions will get the biggest audience, the people in the know hang out on the BGS sub forum.

Simon

 

[Bottom Hat]

If the owner is in Infrastructure Failure, the market closed, apart from selling a couple of things to it.

I can't remember if there are others, but this is why.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

This is normal - but the reason is a bit obscure.

Social and Criminal factions (which includes democracies) open Black Markets
Corporate and Authoritarian factions (which includes corporations) close Black Markets.

A station can't have a Black Market and not also have a normal Commodity Market. So if a station without a commodity market is taken over by a faction which opens a black market, that faction also temporarily opens a commodity market. If that faction loses control and the black market goes, so does the commodity market.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Also the Dark Burger King Archon Delaine opens BMs regardless too in his domain.

 

[Marigold Ipswitch]

What state are the factions in? Not sure if there is a state that can close markets these day (actually not sure there ever was my BGS foo is crap ... and out of date).

Corps do not normally close markets. There are a couple of hidden stats still, that I thought only affected missions.

Edit: Obviously Dangerous Discussions will get the biggest audience, the people in the know hang out on the BGS sub forum.

Simon

There were no apparent discrepancies in statuses between each factions control of ownership. The markets have been closed with corporate ownership regardless of status. The markets have been opened by the democratic factions with no obvious statuses beyond war, boom, and civil liberty.

 

[Marigold Ipswitch]

This is normal - but the reason is a bit obscure.

Social and Criminal factions (which includes democracies) open Black Markets
Corporate and Authoritarian factions (which includes corporations) close Black Markets.

A station can't have a Black Market and not also have a normal Commodity Market. So if a station without a commodity market is taken over by a faction which opens a black market, that faction also temporarily opens a commodity market. If that faction loses control and the black market goes, so does the commodity market.

So there is just no way to know on the front end user experience if the station in question naturally has or does not have a market if they also have a black market and the operating faction allows black markets?

Edit: If there is a source for the information regarding your observation I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Bottom Hat]

Yes. Look at the system map. Correlate the station owner with the faction state. Bob's someone's uncle.

Also the Dark Burger King Archon Delaine opens BMs regardless too in his domain.

This is meme worthy!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

So there is just no way to know on the front end user experience if the station in question naturally has or does not have a market if they also have a black market and the operating faction allows black markets?

Not as far as I know.

Edit: If there is a source for the information regarding your observation I would greatly appreciate it.

Which factions open/close black markets: no official source that I'm aware of, but well-established by observation [1].
Black markets imply commodity markets: this was announced in patch notes at some point, because it wasn't always this way. I can't remember which patch notes, though ... probably somewhere between 2.2 and 3.2.



[1] It isn't strictly the government type which does this, but a separate hidden property generally called "ethos". For well over 99% of bubble factions the distinction is irrelevant as the ethos and government type are tightly correlated. Certain manually added factions - especially around Colonia - have non-standard ethos-government combinations ... and a few bubble PMFs have too, though possibly accidentally in those cases.

 

[Marigold Ipswitch]

Not as far as I know.


Which factions open/close black markets: no official source that I'm aware of, but well-established by observation [1].
Black markets imply commodity markets: this was announced in patch notes at some point, because it wasn't always this way. I can't remember which patch notes, though ... probably somewhere between 2.2 and 3.2.



[1] It isn't strictly the government type which does this, but a separate hidden property generally called "ethos". For well over 99% of bubble factions the distinction is irrelevant as the ethos and government type are tightly correlated. Certain manually added factions - especially around Colonia - have non-standard ethos-government combinations ... and a few bubble PMFs have too, though possibly accidentally in those cases.

Thank you. You have been very helpful.

 

[Danieros]

If a station naturally has a black market but it is under control of a faction which closes black markets, the contacts display the black market as disabled.

Unfortunately the opposite isn't true - a black market that is opened due to the faction in control (or Powerplay territory effect) is displayed the same way as a normal black market, so there's no way to know if the station naturally has a commodity market or not.