Massive flaw in the new Crime and Punishment.Selling credit for real money.

[killerofstars]

So, there is something that I feel like I need to say here. Perhaps it's been said already, I don't know, but I'm repeating it if it has:

Capping player bounties at such a small number is absolutely asinine. I simply can't wrap my head around how, in a game where you can still farm over 100,000,000cr in an hour on the mission board, you're worried about people farming this tactic for financial gains. It's ridiculous. There are MUCH easier and more efficient ways to make cash. Even if someone was to abuse the process, it wouldn't be that profitable. The only thing that this cap on bounty gains is accomplishing is ruining the potential fun and intensity of an actual PvP encounter with a wanted mass murderer. You can make seriously solid profits just running missions in a system that you've allied yourself to all the factions in, without board flipping at all. Imagine the feeling of actually managing to take down the guy who's been terrorizing the galaxy since 3.0 dropped, and has accrued massive bounties all over the galaxy, only to get a few million credits out of it. Let's not downplay how hard it's still going to be to get bounties that high with the new CONCORD system you're installing into the game.

Actually making it profitable for CMDRs to hunt and kill criminals is something that I think this game really needs. Instead of capping bounties, you should multiply them by things like notoriety level, difference in rebuys, and difference in combat ranks. Sure, still set a cap somewhere, but if I kill a guy with 50,000,000cr in bounties who's been killing noobs and traders for two weeks... I better be getting damn well more than 4-6 million...

FDEVs caution is understandable. People whine constantly whenever you can make a reasonable amount of money. "OH NOES NEWBS IN ANACONDAS!" Sigh.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Maybe someone pointed this out but Archon Fury has a recent video where he got a player bounty for over 2 million. It seems the 1 million limit is per system, not per cmdr.

yes, that is.
and with the next patch, the cap is increased to 2 millions,
and due to the change in how the KWS works, you will reveal max 2 mill major faction bounty and whatever the commander has in the current system.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Hello Commanders!

For clarity:

• A criminal can have bounties issued against their ships.
  
  
• Most bounty crimes are nominal values, because the real cost of committing them is becoming wanted, which allows other ships to legally attack and destroy them, triggering a potentially expensive rebuy (as well as the hassle of losing cargo, vouchers and respawning at a detention centre).
  
  
• The murder crime has a special set of rules to determine its cost, by using a new statistic: Notoriety.
  
  
• Notoriety increases every time you commit the crime of murder. It's a value from 0-10, and always starts at 0.
  
  
• Notoriety decays over time spent playing the game, at the rate of 1 point for every two hours that pass playing.
  
  
• When you commit murder, as well as the static portion of the bounty value (which is being set as 5000 CR across the board for legibility), two other calculations kick in:
  
  • 1. For every point of notoriety, an additional cost is added, equal to small fraction of your ship's rebuy value. This fraction increase ramps up as your Notoriety increses, so at Notoriety 10 you will be paying much, much more than at Notoriety 1.
    
    
  • 2. If the victim's ship has a rebuy cost (all Commander ships do), then the bounty value is increased again. This time, the game looks at the difference between your ship's rebuy and the victim's rebuy. 10 percent of this value is added to the bounty per point of Notoriety you have. Basically, if the ship you attack has a bigger rebuy cost, then no extra is added. The cheaper the rebuy of the victim's ship, the greater the the amount of cost *could* be added. Notoriety determines exactly how much of this potential is *actually* added.
• When bounty hunters come a callin' and scan you and detect your bounty, they receive a bounty claim upon destroying your ship. This claim is equal to the bounty cost, but is capped (the cap is being increased to 2 million per jurisdiction. So even if you committed many murders and ended up with a 50 million credit bounty in a jurisdiction, the most a bounty hunter could claim upon taking you down is 2 million.

Other trivia:

• Notoriety also helps the victim. For each point of Notoriety your killer had when they murdered you, your rebuy cost is reduced by 6% in compensation by the Pilot's Federation. Basically, your rebuy will be more than halved when you fall foul of a Notoriety 10 murderer.
  
  
• Around starports, Notoriety is not used (it is not increased by murder and does not inflate the bounty) when ship destruction is caused by collision to mitigate ram trolling.
  
  
• Notoriety stops you using Interstellar Factors, and they're the only way to pay off bounties (fines can be paid of at security contacts).
  
  
• Bounties are attached to ships, not Commanders, so if you switch to a ship with no bounties, you will not be wanted.
  
  
• Bounties never run out. They last forever, or until claimed or paid off using the Interstellar Factors.
  
  
• If your combined bounty/fine value for jurisdictions aligned to a superpower exceed more than 2 million CR, they will be conglomerated into an Interstellar bounty, which will make you wanted in all jurisdictions controlled by factions aligned with the superpower.

Hope this info helps.

Hi Sandro.

I really, strongly feel that Bounties need to be less nominal than they currently are. Being Wanted for even a string of offences is exremely trivial when you can easily slip into a clean ship or slip over to an Interstellar Factor & get all your bounties removed.

-Base bounties need to be increased for all crimes-by a factor of maybe 3-5 times what they currently are.

-This base bounty should be increased by the security level of the system you are in-maybe 1.5× for Medium Security & 2× for Hi-Sec. This will also help to further differentiate systems of differing security levels.

-Repeat offences need to be increasingly more punishing than a mere one off, in terms of bounty size.

-Please, please retain the 25% mark up for cleaning bounties at Interstellar Factors. From a lore perspective, these are quasi legal entities who are probably engaged in a lot of dodgy behaviour to clean your ship. Applying a mark up for these services fits these types of organisations to a tee, & keeps it consistent with the 25% fee they apply to bounties the commander collects.

Also, as others have suggested. Make notoriety more punishing the higher it goes-in regards to decay rates. 1 hour for notoriety 1, 4 hours for notoriety 2, 9 hours for notoriety 3......etc.

 

[Manticore]

This:

What makes gold selling even more impractical is the fact that is completely breaks the EULA rules, and if caught, FD will close your account. Then they have to buy a new copy of the game, and grind bounties again. Regularly.

In top of that, we all love a good troll, I'd report every single CMDR offering to sell credits. It'd be a new sport in Open.

And this:

Hello Commanders!

For clarity:

................................

Hope this info helps.

OP: Ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

IMHO the only huge flaw of the entire System is the fixed ties to the Ships - while CMDRs are basically always clean.

With the cooldowns envisioned, all it takes is a few spare Ships. Since Credits are a non-factor and Engineering will soon become extremely convenient, a CMDR could basically run crime sprees around the clock.
Just hop into another Ship when things start getting tight, then carry on.

Got 250M Bounties on your Ships? Doesn't matter, Notoriety will be low or at zero next time you pick one you parked 1st.

I envision Players running around undisturbed in xxx Million Bounty Ships and only evading Notoriety by a quick Ship change. ATF will essentially never show up, if I understand Sandro's explanations correctly.
Feels like a huge, baked-in loophole. Got enough spare Ships? Possibly zero issues, game will play almost like in old times.
(and the Criminals even get a precise ATF ETA... Can't ever recall Special Forces calling criminals and telling them "We'll come get you in 1 Minute 15 Seconds". That Info should be provided only to the Targets instead)

PS.
....apart from being totally weird... What's a Top 5 Bounty Board supposed to read like? Top 1 : Imperial Clipper "Merciless Punisher", 412.311Cr , last seen stored at Jamesons Memorial xD

Or a Bounty Hunter tracks down and finally locates "CMDR FastG4nk"... Top 1 on all regional Bounty Boards.
Interdicts & Scans the CMDR - only to find out "Sorry, flying my clean Amnesty Sidewinder right now. Clean like a Saint. Sorry for the inconvenience. o7 CMDR"

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Hello Commander Athan!



Yes. Murder means that you are in a jurisdiction controlled by a faction that has laws, and the target was clean, and had an active security link (all AI always have theirs turned on). It applies equally to human and NPC ships, though as stated, the cost can be different.

Why different costs for Player vs NPC? Why not simply have a harsh but harmonized system for *all* forms of murder?

 

[Razar]

Actually, notoriety will decay at the rate of 1 point every 2 hours in game.

/sorry, I meant to say, "Actually, IF notoriety will decay at the rate of 1 point every 2 hours in game." Meaning they change it so that it is more of a deterrent from seal clubbing. As it is now, all they need to do is have a friend kill them, the friend gets the creds, and they wait out a small timer. But if it lasted 7 days, then it might make at least some of the players that want to bully newer players think twice.

The new system doesn't really do anything to do that. Especially when someone with a bounty over 2 million credits isn't going to net the bounty hunters anymore than 2 million. Unless you are just really wanting to bounty hunt other players, it isn't worth going after them. There are other ways that pay so much more, with so little risk at all.

Razar.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

IMHO the only huge flaw of the entire System is the fixed ties to the Ships - while CMDRs are basically always clean.

With the cooldowns envisioned, all it takes is a few spare Ships. Since Credits are a non-factor and Engineering will soon become extremely convenient, a CMDR could basically run crime sprees around the clock.
Just hop into another Ship when things start getting tight, then carry on.

Got 250M Bounties on your Ships? Doesn't matter, Notoriety will be low or at zero next time you pick one you parked 1st.
...

i think you missed the thing that "bounties" are a ship attribute,
notoriety is a commander attribute.

if you are on level 10, switching your ship wont lower that - just the next offense with the clean ship will be expensive and result in an ATR deployment right away.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

i think you missed the thing that "bounties" are a ship attribute,
notoriety is a commander attribute.

if you are on level 10, switching your ship wont lower that - just the next offense with the clean ship will be expensive and result in an ATR deployment right away.

Ah, okay... I feared those were tied to the Ships as well. At least that one sticks, which is good

 

[Manticore]

IMHO the only huge flaw of the entire System is the fixed ties to the Ships - while CMDRs are basically always clean.

I think that is a fair comment (as said by you and others). Commission of a crime depends on the intent of the individual wishing to commit the offense. I don't see any problem with attaching any penalty to the pilot who had the intention to do the criminal act.

Or a Bounty Hunter tracks down and finally locates "CMDR FastG4nk"... Top 1 on all regional Bounty Boards.
Interdicts & Scans the CMDR - only to find out "Sorry, flying my clean Amnesty Sidewinder right now. Clean like a Saint. Sorry for the inconvenience. o7 CMDR"

In my reading of this thread it only appears to deal with the type of pilot who is looking for loopholes when they want to continue griefing.

What about:

Illegal cargoes?

Illegal passenger transport?

Smuggling generally?

Surface site trespass actions?

 

[Susanna]

Post moved to discussion forum ...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...build-ships!-Even-a-T7!?p=6419628#post6419628

 

[CMDR WER NUR]

Post moved to discussion forum ...

Could you please post a link, as im not able to find your post after you moved it (i was reading it, browser stalled, now its gone for good).

Thx

MFG

CMDR WER NUR

 

[Susanna]

Could you please post a link, as im not able to find your post after you moved it (i was reading it, browser stalled, now its gone for good).

Thx

MFG

CMDR WER NUR

Sorry about that I started typing, posted, and then realised I had not posted it were I had intended to...

Here is the link. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...build-ships!-Even-a-T7!?p=6419628#post6419628

 

[CMDR WER NUR]

Thx for the link!

MFG

CMDR WER NUR

 

[Susanna]

Cmdr Cosmicspacehead is (unusually ) right on this I think;
A million cred bounty is not bad to earn but a 100 million rebuy is hell to pay.

I also think transferring the 200 mill for the 'Conda you bought on eBay - one million at a time - wouldn't be all that attractive. FDev could put in an Elite Rank versus Current Assets flag and then there's name and shame.

Repped. I've struck through my post because I got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[Susanna]

snip. Maybe sell the entire account?

I thought that was against the license? Did I miss something?

 

[Susanna]

On the contrary, it was and is still, very very easy to get a massive bounty. What the "old gold farmers" used to do was:

Get a T-9
Load up with illegal goods
Get scanned in a system where the item is illegal = massive fine
Log out, log back in again, get scanned
Rinse and repeat
They would now have say a 20 million fine
All they then did was shoot something that was not wanted and the fine would turn into a bounty
20 million fine now equals a bounty
Mate/buyer could now shoot them and claim the full 20 million or whatever

That's why its capped. It was very easy to exploit.

:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

Well I learnt something from that! Reped! I obviously don't think in that kind of way.

Love your sig btw!

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Hello Commanders!

For clarity:

• A criminal can have bounties issued against their ships.
  
  
• Most bounty crimes are nominal values, because the real cost of committing them is becoming wanted, which allows other ships to legally attack and destroy them, triggering a potentially expensive rebuy (as well as the hassle of losing cargo, vouchers and respawning at a detention centre).
  
  
• The murder crime has a special set of rules to determine its cost, by using a new statistic: Notoriety.
  
  
• Notoriety increases every time you commit the crime of murder. It's a value from 0-10, and always starts at 0.
  
  
• Notoriety decays over time spent playing the game, at the rate of 1 point for every two hours that pass playing.
  
  
• When you commit murder, as well as the static portion of the bounty value (which is being set as 5000 CR across the board for legibility), two other calculations kick in:
  
  • 1. For every point of notoriety, an additional cost is added, equal to small fraction of your ship's rebuy value. This fraction increase ramps up as your Notoriety increses, so at Notoriety 10 you will be paying much, much more than at Notoriety 1.
    
    
  • 2. If the victim's ship has a rebuy cost (all Commander ships do), then the bounty value is increased again. This time, the game looks at the difference between your ship's rebuy and the victim's rebuy. 10 percent of this value is added to the bounty per point of Notoriety you have. Basically, if the ship you attack has a bigger rebuy cost, then no extra is added. The cheaper the rebuy of the victim's ship, the greater the the amount of cost *could* be added. Notoriety determines exactly how much of this potential is *actually* added.
• When bounty hunters come a callin' and scan you and detect your bounty, they receive a bounty claim upon destroying your ship. This claim is equal to the bounty cost, but is capped (the cap is being increased to 2 million per jurisdiction. So even if you committed many murders and ended up with a 50 million credit bounty in a jurisdiction, the most a bounty hunter could claim upon taking you down is 2 million.

Other trivia:

• Notoriety also helps the victim. For each point of Notoriety your killer had when they murdered you, your rebuy cost is reduced by 6% in compensation by the Pilot's Federation. Basically, your rebuy will be more than halved when you fall foul of a Notoriety 10 murderer.
  
  
• Around starports, Notoriety is not used (it is not increased by murder and does not inflate the bounty) when ship destruction is caused by collision to mitigate ram trolling.
  
  
• Notoriety stops you using Interstellar Factors, and they're the only way to pay off bounties (fines can be paid of at security contacts).
  
  
• Bounties are attached to ships, not Commanders, so if you switch to a ship with no bounties, you will not be wanted.
  
  
• Bounties never run out. They last forever, or until claimed or paid off using the Interstellar Factors.
  
  
• If your combined bounty/fine value for jurisdictions aligned to a superpower exceed more than 2 million CR, they will be conglomerated into an Interstellar bounty, which will make you wanted in all jurisdictions controlled by factions aligned with the superpower.

Hope this info helps.

Sorry, Sandro, but I am still not buying the need for bounties to be trivial. If there isn't even going to be a mark-up at IF, then nipping to a Lo Sec system to pay off your bounties, even for multiple counts of assault and/or piracy, is going to be oh so very trivial.

Beef up base bounty size, then have multipliers for system security level & repeat offenses. The key issue is ensuring that NPC's properly priotise wanted Commanders & NPC's......based on relative bounty size & notoriety.

Oh, & please retain the 25% mark up for Interstellar Bounties.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Hello Commander Athan!



Yes. Murder means that you are in a jurisdiction controlled by a faction that has laws, and the target was clean, and had an active security link (all AI always have theirs turned on). It applies equally to human and NPC ships, though as stated, the cost can be different.

When it comes to the cost of removing bounties-by death or IF-does there *really* need to be a differentiation between PvP & PvE murder? I think that KIS is the best approach. Just have a single, simple & streamlined system that applies the same penalties for all types of murder.